Thirty-three to forty-one years?

topic posted Mon, September 17, 2007 - 10:47 AM by 
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According to this from the 1998 Federal Sentencing Manual, a federal arson conviction matching these guidelines: "if the offense (A) created a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury to any person other than a participant in the offense; (B) involved the destruction or attempted destruction of a structure other than a dwelling; or (C) endangered a dwelling, or a structure other than a dwelling" assuming that the defendant has no previous criminal record would be 33 to 41 years in prison.

There are other possible charges but this would be the most serious and have the harshest penalty.

See: www.ussc.gov/1998guid/2k1_4.htm and then look at this: www.ussc.gov/1998guid/2k1_4.htm

I'm no lawyer and I'm sure any attorneys who read this probably have a lot more info about this kind of shit than I do, but, do you really want to see Paul Addis sent to prison for up to 44 years for torching the man early?

No charges have been filed and I'm sure prosecutors are diligently going over all the details of the case now and whatever ultimate penalties Addis will face are a long way off.

So. What do you think should Addis' punishment should be? Jail? For how long? A fine? How much? Probation? What conditions? Guilty by reason of insanity? What then?
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  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 11:19 AM
    He's not going to get that. I'll be surprised if he does more than 90 days if they even charge him. Wait. Do you think they can make money off of him? Okay then they'll charge him. Maximize profits first and then instigate charges!

    But just for the sake of arguments let's just say that was his art project he did out there. In my opinion is was a failure and he deserves one year less a day, 5 years probation and a lifetime ban from the event.

    If I was doing it I would have went out there when the man was still on the ground and planted some inflammables in the burlap of both legs. And don't tell me it isn't possible. The man lies out there in the open during the early morning for days with NO guards or anything.

    I'll betcha money it's never like that again though.

    Or hell he should have burned himself up with it. That would have been a much more powerful statement.
    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

      Wed, September 19, 2007 - 11:54 AM
      Tony: "But just for the sake of arguments let's just say that was his art project he did out there. In my opinion is was a failure and he deserves one year less a day, 5 years probation and a lifetime ban from the event. "

      I like you're idea. But I would also include a bunch of community service hours for the county and/or the local BLM.

      -Gabriel
  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 11:36 AM
    The members of the radical Earth Liberation Front who were convicted of torching the Mid-Vail warming house/restaurant in 1998 as well as 19 other protest related acts of arson, many on federal property, were sentenced to anywhere from 37 months to 11 years in prison. www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/...0.html To my knowledge, none of these acts of arson involved explosives and none where started when other none involved people were nearby or in danger. There were people under the awnings around the man and he is alleged to have used fireworks, possibly meaning explosives, to start the fire.
  • Nope!

    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 11:44 AM
    Anyone who wants someone to do hard time for burning the man early at burning man...

    you should be ashamed of yourselves.
    There are real crimes, real criminals out there.
    This AIN'T it.

    Let the guy go.
    (What a bunch of crybabies... ((shaking head))...)
    • Re: Nope!

      Mon, September 17, 2007 - 11:56 AM
      I disagree with you Sunshine.

      I suppose since you're at Burning Man it's okay if some dickhead slaps some chick's ass too, right? I mean she was wearing panties so that makes it okay, right? No that's totally different, right. But they burn everything at Burning Man so if some dickhead starts one more fire then it is okay, right?

      No that isn't right either. This is a crime that could have produced unforeseen consequences.

      And he needs to be made an example of so that it doesn't happen again. It's called a deterent. And I didn't say 25 years. I said 364 days which will save him from gaining a PFN number and keep him in county jail. And in a few years he can probably have his felony reduced to a misdemeanor too.

      I am not, nor should I feel ashamed of myself. I think it's you that should feel ashamed of yourself for being so ridiculous.
      • Re: Nope!

        Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:06 PM
        That sounds great Tony because as we all know deterrents work amazingly well. I mean, jeez, since we have the death penalty in most states no one ever goes out and murders anyone anymore.

        Are you fucking serious? Your basis for wanting to send him to the nick is to serve as a deterrent?!?

        Paul Addis getting charged with anything as a result of what he allegedly did is not going to deter anyone else from doing something like this if they really fucking wanted to in the future. No more than people getting charged with drug offenses every year makes others stop imbibing recreational substances.
        • Re: Nope!

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:12 PM
          Amen, at *best* it would only serve to make people more creative with *how* they pull the same prank. Time-release accelerants etc. That means little or no warning time for the people on the ground.

          Sound safer to you?
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Nope!

          Tue, September 18, 2007 - 1:04 AM
          Miss Cheeky is right. Deterrents DO NOT work. If they did we would have virtually zero crime.

          Stores put in cameras and still get robbed. Penalties are made harsher but crimes are still committed. Loopholes are closed but people find new ones. People are creative and don't like being told what to do, they find imaginative ways to do it anyway.

          There is an old saying that holds wisdom, "Sand cupped lightly in your hand will not spill, but squeeze it tightly and it will run through your fingers".
          If you can't find the metaphor and the wisdom in this then you are a lost cause.

          Have a nice day! :-)
      • Re: Nope!

        Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:10 PM
        A fitting punishment would involve him paying for all the parts, labor, and transport involved in setting up the replacement man, plus forking out the dough for the Org to throw them a much-deserved 'thank you' party. The folks who built the Man and who set up the exhibits under the pavilion had a lot of their work ruined because of Addis' petulance, and he needs to make it up to them somehow. (Justice, eh?)
        • Re: Nope!

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:19 PM
          Pikey said it best....this could be settled in a civil court, or by a council of those involved, vindictiveness is the dark side of the force. Justice is what we trully would like.
          Syngerella
          • Re: Nope!

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:31 PM
            is that by the labor rate that the borg pays or by what the workers are actually worth?
            • Re: Nope!

              Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:06 AM
              The problem is it is probably the FEDS that will charge him..not the BMORG...if anyone knows for sure - please clarify...
      • Re: Nope!

        Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:15 PM
        re: "it's okay if some dickhead slaps some chick's ass too.."

        WEAK argument.
        two totally unrelated things.
        You can put anything together in a paragraph, doesn't mean they are related, doesn't make it logical, doesn't make a good argument.

        Perhaps you have missed my recent posts arguing that people SHOULD be talking about the jump in reported sexual assaults this year (11, according to the Pershing cty sheriff) rather some hunk of wood.

        • Re: Nope!

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:31 PM
          One is a crime against a person and one is a crime against property. Both are felonies until the lawyers plea it down to whatever they decide works.

          I mentioned the slapping rather than saying straight up sexual assualt.

          Like it or not someone could have been seriously hurt but since that didn't happen I guess we're all okay. I used to be a fuck up and the best thing that ever happened to me was when I went to jail. I don't care what any of you freaks thinks, dickhead deserves to go to jail. I guarantee he will either pull his head out of his ass and get his shit together or he'll end up institutionalized.

          As someone else on this thread said, you do the crime, you do the time.

          He did the crime.
          • Re: Nope!

            Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:08 AM
            "I guarantee he will either pull his head out of his ass and get his shit together or he'll end up institutionalized. "

            Just FYI he's a manic-depressive - and if you know anything about that you might be more compassionate...If he was truly in a manic state - he might even have an insanity plea...not that he would take it...
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Nope!

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:33 PM
          Sunshine,
          Re: Nope!
          re: "it's okay if some dickhead slaps some chick's ass too.."


          *WEAK argument.
          two totally unrelated things.
          You can put anything together in a paragraph, doesn't mean they are related, doesn't make it logical, doesn't make a good argument.*


          Not unrelated at all both are done without permission, this is a rape of sorts after all.
          also a robbery.

          He took without permission his taking endangered people against their will.

          He IS the same as a rapist or robber.

          He IS a selfish FUCKTARD...

          Oh well he will get what he deserves.
          • Re: Nope!

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:37 PM
            You want to equate burning the man at burning man with rape?!

            Please, don't EVER come to my camp.
            • Re: Nope!

              Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:57 PM
              Trust me drew, I've seen this yahoo's posts in a few threads.

              He's all insult n' no argument.
    • Re: Nope!

      Mon, September 17, 2007 - 11:57 AM
      Word!
      • I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

        Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:11 PM
        It seems his sentencing will be the punch line to his joke, yes? I wouldn't want to deprive him of the satisfaction he will surely get from his fellow cellmates. Oh! Not his desired output? You mean he didn't think it through? Poor planning on his part, then.

        When Martin Luther King, Jr. used public performance (civil disobedience) to make a point, he did the time in jail, with head held high. If this is how Addis sees his work, he should be proud to do 10 years in the state prison.

        Only then will I respect his "work" as "art." Maybe.
        • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:17 PM
          Listen Cheeky,

          In this case - yes it will work. If there is no deterent, (IE dickhead gets off scott free) what's going to stop everyone else with a pack of matches and a canteen of gasoline from thinking it is okay if they burn any art they feel like it just because that other jerk got away with it so why shouldn't I?

          Hey, I was doing my art. I burned that down because I could.

          Are you an idiot? Or just a naive knucklehead?

          Deterents Do work and if you think they don't ask yourself why you're paying change into a parking meter the next time you drop that quarter.

          <high voice) oh well that's different </high voice>

          Uh huh. yeah right.
          • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:32 PM
            "what's going to stop everyone else with a pack of matches and a canteen of gasoline from thinking it is okay if they burn any art they feel like it just because that other jerk got away with it so why shouldn't I?"

            How about, um, whatever it is that has been stopping them up til now. I think, as can be seen here by the responses of people who disagree with the man being burned early, that most people attending wouldn't do that even if someone else had and gotten away with it.

            I don't think the deterrent is a potential arson charge, but more the idea that it isn't their art/structure/whatever to fuck about with anymore than their work is someone's else's fair game.

            Maybe you should think more about your fellow burner than to think they are all going to go on some arson frenzy towards the man every year if this guy isn't charged.

            And to answer your questions, I am neither of those things. But it seems clear that you are indeed an asshole.
          • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:39 PM
            Tony:
            > Deterents Do work and if you think they don't ask yourself why you're paying change into a parking meter the next time you drop that quarter.

            Well... deterents might very well just serve to encourage people to work harder not to get caught.

            If things keep going as they've been going, I'd expect more acts of radical protest not fewer.

            The BMORG could chose to fully support a long jail term for this prank, betraying all of the values that this festival was founded upon and further infuriating a group of people - probably ensuring more trouble next year.

            Or the BMORG could chose to improve communication and working with the community so as to bridge this "us vs. them" gap.
          • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

            Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:17 AM
            For what it is worth I don't always pay a quarter in when I park at a meter. Now please do not everybody get crazy about this my post, ok.
            • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

              Wed, September 19, 2007 - 12:04 PM
              The only time I park at a meter is when I'm at work. And since I work directly with a disabled person, I can abuse* the use of their placard (free, unlimited time in any spot, including green zones).

              -Gabriel

              *I do not "abuse" as the word defines. My posistion grants me the legal ability to use a disabled placard so long as I am actively working for the client in question and they are not using it themselves (client can't drive anyway...)
        • Re: I wouldn't want to destroy his performance art

          Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:10 AM
          "When Martin Luther King, Jr. used public performance (civil disobedience) to make a point, he did the time in jail, with head held high. If this is how Addis sees his work, he should be proud to do 10 years in the state prison.

          Only then will I respect his "work" as "art." Maybe."

          That was how I was feeling a week ago.... now I'm just feeling he's pityful... I mean a person suffering from serious mania (if he was ) is really out of their head...
  • Thank god for small favors...

    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:12 PM
    Paul should be thanking his lucky stars he isn't of Middle Eastern descent. If that were the case, he'd be in Guantanamo right now, the terrorism threat level would be back to Orange until the elections next year, and George Bush would be extolling the positive aspects of Burning Man and the American Dream.

    Can you imagine that? George W. Bush extolling Burning Man as the acid test of freedom? THAT would be the kiss of death for the event.

    ;-)
  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 12:16 PM
    from what I have seen, he is being charged with 3rd degree arson. Probably no more than 3 years but I believe there is a min of 1 year.
    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

      Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:00 PM
      is third degree arson still a felony?
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

        Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:15 PM
        According to Nevada State Law it's a Category D Felony:

        A category D felony is a felony for which a court shall sentence a convicted person to imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 4 years. In addition to any other penalty, the court may impose a fine of not more than $5,000, unless a greater fine is authorized or required by statute.
        • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 1:54 PM
          I say he take responsibility for his actions.........it's not up to me how long they sentence him for (and no, I don't want a man to go to jail for 37 years) BUT he in no way should be let off free. What will he decide to do next? What will be his next "art" expression?

          We all have freedom of self-expression BUT my freedom ends where your nose begins.

          He surely knew what would happen if he did this.....
        • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:02 PM
          Wow! Reading these posts it just came to me how this whole incident perfectly segues into next years Theme: The American Dream.

          I believe inviting corporations to come to Burning Man (um, hello? Burning Man - THE non corporate event) can easily be construed as the last straw in "a long train of abuses and usurpations".

          So for next year I am looking right at the good ol' Declaration of Independence, the very foundation of the American Dream (excerpted below). And for those who say, "don't like it don't come" well that is not exactly how it worked out back in 1776. The only real tragedy here is that Paul Addis was caught. I wonder what the sentencing would have been for Thomas Jefferson.....

          Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
          • Mystifying . . .

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:20 PM
            Adam go nip at someone else's heels. I'm done with you.

            I did not state I wanted dickhead to get 30 or 10 or even 1 year. I said he needs to do some jail time, which is less than a year.

            You people act like he climbed up on the man and defaced him or something. He lit the man on fire. Do you get it? That is ARSON. Not a joke. NOT an art project. If someone comes along and keys "ASSHOLE" on the hood of your car are you okay? Do you climb in and drive away saying, "Wow someone did art on my car." I hope you're also okay with it when they light your car on fire too. Because the man is the car of Burning Man - the vehicle, like it or not.

            I'm glad you're okay with that Miss Cheeky & Sunshine. I'm not sure what that makes you but more power to you.

            You people are so diluted it makes me nauseous.

            And for those of you thinking he was making a statement against corporate involvement, there are other more invigorating manners in which to do that. Like actually creating something that takes imagination and hard work. Like, well, oh my god, maybe making a piece of your own art. Wow, imagine that.

            But wait. maybe I missed something. He did get all imaginative putting on his makeup and climbing up that pole. And my god, I SEE the light. Performance art and what a performance it was. Are you SERIOUS? What a laugh riot to even suggest that.

            This guy is the most pathetic example of a coat tail riding idiot possible. You really want to be lumped in with him? Then go right ahead.

            Just for the record, in my opinion Burning Man is a dinosaur well on it's why to extinction just like the country the next theme is based on. Does that give me a right to light it on fire to make a statement?

            The answer is simple.

            No.

            I don't hold anyone to any higher standard than I do myself. I also don't light other people's properties on fire.
            • Re: Mystifying . . .

              Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:48 PM
              Tony, you are sounding fanatic now. No one likes to listen to a fanatic, except other fanatics.

              Why are you so emotionally involved with a jail term? I have seen as many people that approve of the early burn as disapprove.
              To me, that means there is no real clear answer to right or wrong. Yet you seem to want to argue he was wrong with every fiber of your being.

              • Re: Mystifying . . .

                Mon, September 17, 2007 - 2:51 PM
                Well this was the last couple of lines of the original post:

                So. What do you think should Addis' punishment should be? Jail? For how long? A fine? How much? Probation? What conditions? Guilty by reason of insanity? What then?

                Just stating my opinion. And justifying why my opinion is what it is. Arson is no joke, especially not when you have experienced it first hand.
                • Re: Mystifying . . .

                  Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:07 PM
                  This is not the same as burning a house. There were measures taken to try to insure peoples' safety. It was the destruction of something that was fated to be destroyed.

                  So it it hitting some people very strongly.Your opinions have been stated, but you are not letting it go at that. You start calling people names and your opinion seems to be that no one has a right to an opinion, unless they agree with you.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Mystifying . . .

                    Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:12 PM
                    >>There were measures taken to try to insure peoples' safety.

                    You mind telling me what measures you're talking about?

                    >> You start calling people names

                    Quote me. Please. Other than the sobriquets I use in place of the accused.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Mystifying . . .

                    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:15 AM
                    "There were measures taken to try to insure peoples' safety."

                    I have seen no proof of this, just his claim of a crew... asking around no one can figure out if there is any ANY truth to that claim. I do not believe it myself and figure those claims were a CYA manuever after the fact.

                    It is what he claimed, that said he is likely a delusional manic depressive...with bad manifesto writing skills.
            • Re: Mystifying . . .

              Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:14 PM
              Tony:

              Maybe I should phrase it this way.

              If Paul gets serious jail time will that serve as a deterrent, or will that solidify his role as a martyr for all of those who have problems with the direction that the event has been heading?

              Once he's officially a martyr, others are sure to follow his example.
            • Re: Mystifying . . .

              Tue, September 18, 2007 - 1:31 AM
              Tony wrote:

              "You people are so diluted it makes me nauseous. "


              Tony, the word is spelled "deluded" not "diluted".

              What is deluded is telling people who disagree with you that they are wrong for holding their own opinions. It is a practice which is not wise.


              Tony wrote:

              "He lit the man on fire. Do you get it? That is ARSON. Not a joke. NOT an art project."

              BURNING MAN WAS A VICTIM OF ARSON

              Oh yeah - we get it. Do you get it? Do you realize how funny that is? And the fact that you are all pissed off about BURNING MAN BEING A VICTIM OF ARSON is hilarious.

              • Re: Mystifying . . .

                Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:31 AM
                Actually asshat, the word is spelled d-i-l-u-t-e-d as in 'thin', 'weak' and 'diminished'. And in particular "to decrease the per share value of (common stock) by increasing the total number of shares". Multiple shares of stupidity do not make something any less stupid. As in you and your mob of devoted and blind fools.

                As I know the meaning of deluded that would mean you were deceived or tricked, when obviously you're just flat out ignorant of the way the law works and what is and what is not morally right.

                I don't care how many of you come at me in the eyes of the law you're wrong.

                Even if what's his face is depressed it does not excuse his actions. If he’s lucky they’re commit him.

                Just because something is slated to be burned does not lessen the crime that it was burned by arson early. Are you that naive? You people have no concept of the law and how it works. Let's say a convicted criminal is on death row and you go out and shoot him on his way to the execution. Is that okay? Because that is what you are saying about Burning Man being a victim of arson. You would be charged and convicted of murder. Think about it. Take a deep breath and really think about it. The law is the law.

                I only wish these threads were all on one post because I am tired of reiterating things I have already said.

                This is the last time I am posting on anything to do with this.

                In the end nothing we say or do is going to matter. In the end it is Nevada law that will decide the fate of the accused. My opinions here are based solely on what the law is and therefore what he deserves thereby. Understand? In a way I hope they are lenient, but knowing the conservative morals of Nevada I would say your man is in DEEP shit.

                Okay, talk your shit because if you take the time you will note that I am no longer subscribed to this tribe and I will not return to read your lame responses anymore.

                And for the record Fuck You Danger Angel.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Mystifying . . .

                  Tue, September 18, 2007 - 10:59 AM
                  Yeah Tony, because the law is ALWAYS right. So we should always just be good little sheep and OBEY without question.

                  You're the only one acting stupid here by insulting people who don't agree with you. You're behaving like some brainwashed little soldier.

                  I believe Federal law is at issue here because it's Federal land. Nevada law doesn't apply unless the Fed declines to prosecute and Nevada picks up the reins. For someone who seems so fixated on "facts" I'm amazed you don't know this.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Mystifying . . .

                    Wed, September 19, 2007 - 12:19 PM
                    I though the jursidiction of arrests on federal lands goes to who ever gets the guy first. That's why you always have highway patrol or state troopers clashing with county sheriffs and city law-enforcement. Jurisdictions "overlap" as it were.

                    -Gabriel
                    • Re: Mystifying . . .

                      Wed, September 19, 2007 - 12:34 PM
                      The feds have jurisdiction with felonies committed on federal property regardless of who actually makes the arrest but they may not want to spend the time and resources prosecuting something that can also be prosecuted in district or county courts as is the case here. If this was an obvious act of terrorism then by all means, the feds would prosecute but a simple arson can be tried using Pershing County prosecutors, courts and a Nevada rather than federal prison.
                      • Re: Mystifying . . .

                        Wed, September 19, 2007 - 4:45 PM
                        Crash wrote:
                        "If this was an obvious act of terrorism"

                        hmmm... sounding familiar...


                        "Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."

                        -GW Bush
              • Re: Mystifying . . .

                Tue, September 18, 2007 - 3:01 PM
                Just because someone has an opinion does not mean it is the best opinion of all possible opinions. Some are better than others. Evolution anyone? Paul expressed his opinion and now he is facing consequences of reality. He could have avoided possible time by trying to improved his opinion by making some judgements about other people's opinions and thereby coming up with a new opinion that was better than the opinion he held before. Or he could stick with his own opinion, which he did, and now we all can come up with our own opinions about his opinion. You see what my opinion is?

                Just because everyone has opinions doesn't mean that some are functionally better than others. So saying, "everyone is entitled to their own opinion" is only half the story and sometimes is used as a cop out for bad or ignorant behavior and thoughts.
            • Re: Mystifying . . .

              Wed, September 19, 2007 - 12:03 PM
              Tony,

              Wow.

              Just because I don't think that maximum penalties for a crime serve as deterrent for future crime I have been called naive, stupid, and diluted (though that last one I think you meant deluded).

              And for the record, I never said or implied that what he allegedly did was art. I said something about the burning of other people's art, which implies that the object burned was the art not the act of burning. I also never said he was making a statement or that he is a hero or any other such stuff that anyone else might have said or implied or that you might have assumed they meant or implied.

              I was just making my own comment on punishment as a deterrent.
        • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

          Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:02 PM
          The above is the penalty for a federal arson conviction which according to the manual is a Class II felony. This is assuming conviction in a federal court for federal charges. An arson charge and conviction under Nevada law might be different. The feds might let Nevada authorities prosecute. If Nevada fails to prosecute the the feds might act.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

            Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:28 PM
            He will get a plea bargain and get a year in jail suspended and a few years of informal probation. This is not the crime of the century. It's not in anybodies interest to prosecute this to the fullest extent of the law.
            • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

              Tue, September 18, 2007 - 4:16 AM
              >He will get a plea bargain and get a year in jail suspended and a few years of informal probation. This is not the crime of the century. It's not in anybodies interest to prosecute this to the fullest extent of the law. <

              I suspect that is about right . And, that jail time is the least of the issues he faces. Having to indicate he was convicted of arson is the real issue. Long after the glow of the prank has worn off the need to check that box on an employment forn, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" is going to follow him. I can't speak for him but I certainly wouldn't want that.
              • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:18 AM
                I also suspect that any DA or prosecutor involved will think it is a highly risible case, and not personally WANT to be involved...not exactly a career maker... but certainly likely to draw a lot of lunatics into the public discourse.... with that in mind - I think it maybe a highly plea likely case....with very little time to be served.

                maybe I watch too much law and order.
                • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                  Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:25 AM
                  Bottom line is Mr Addis should have thought all this through before he acted and maybe he did, I don't know.

                  He choose to roll the dice. Now he has to live with it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 10:06 AM
                    Paul will be 'arraigned' in Pershing County next week. I believe Tuesday at the Pershing County Courthouse. Jail time? no way. His act was specific, and he made his point. Fine? sure, pay the county for having to deal with it. They're not going to throw the book at him.
                    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                      Tue, September 18, 2007 - 10:26 AM
                      Paul Addis violated many of the BLM Special Stipulations for the Burning Man Event. His actions and the likelihood that others will emulate his behavior, threatens the possibility of future events on the Black Rock Desert for all of us. The terms of his conviction will intentionally send a clear message to others.

                      www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca...endices.pdf

                      "Any violation of the permit terms, conditions and stipulations may be subject to penalties prescribed in 43 CFR 2930. Additionally, any such violation may result in permit revocation, suspension, or probation. Violations may also be cause for the BLM to deny approval of a subsequent Permit or Operating Authorization"
                      • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                        Tue, September 18, 2007 - 10:54 AM
                        I guess that's a clear reason why the BMorg would pursue prosecution although the BMorg could only be considered culpable if they actively supported, encouraged or even knowingly allowed Addis to do what he did. Addis is not an official member or employee of BMorg that I know of therefore his act can't be considered an official BMorg act. Since the BMorg's participation is unlikely, their culpability would be in doubt therefor it would be hard for the BLM to revoke the permit as a result. Not to say the BLM wouldn't try. Who knows what the BLM would do besides the BLM?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                    Wed, September 19, 2007 - 7:38 AM
                    "Bottom line is Mr Addis should have thought all this through before he acted and maybe he did, I don't know.

                    He choose to roll the dice. Now he has to live with it."



                    i sometimes feel this way...but then again I know a great deal about mania....and there is a really GOOD chance he had NO capacity to deal with thinking through consequences...clinically speaking... I SHOULD have...but perhaps was INCAPABLE....so does that change anyone's perspective - at all?
                    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                      Wed, September 19, 2007 - 12:07 PM
                      If he had no problems thinking through his plan to get the man on fire (it takes more than just spontaneously showing up with a lighter), why should he not be able to think about the consequences as well?
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                Tue, September 18, 2007 - 10:26 AM
                He's an actor. A felony conviction would have zero negative effect on his career.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                  Tue, September 18, 2007 - 11:03 AM
                  Eddie, good point. Also note that he's a former lawyer and so stands a better than average chance of getting out of this.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 11:08 AM
                    Ahh........ I know a few former lawyers who couldn't get out of a parking ticket. That's why they are *former* lawyers.
                    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                      Tue, September 18, 2007 - 6:53 PM
                      <<He will get a plea bargain and get a year in jail suspended and a few years of informal probation.>>

                      That is certainly a preferred outcome. There's nothing the community would gain in caging Addis.

                      <<It's not in anybodies interest to prosecute this to the fullest extent of the law.>>

                      Except the people actually prosecuting the case! It is certainly in the political interest of a conservative prosecutor out in the Alkali Belt to get all Maximum Bob over some painted-maniac felon connected to Burning Man. It's an urban hash-dream to wish otherwise. Rural lawyers make their bones over shit like this.

                      <<He choose to roll the dice. Now he has to live with it.>>

                      He rolled OUR dice , I fear, and now WE must live with whatever ugly consequences the BLM unloads next year as a direct result of our own Thomas Paine-in-the-ass.
                      • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                        Wed, September 19, 2007 - 7:40 AM
                        "Thomas Paine-in-the-ass.""


                        LOL!!!

                        Yeah not so sure about the prosecutor making his bones...this is a really REALLY SILLY case...
                        • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

                          Wed, September 19, 2007 - 8:37 AM
                          <<this is a really REALLY SILLY case...>>

                          There's nothing silly to a county prosecutor about felony arson and you may be sure that's how the Pershing Co. DA will play it. It would be worth any officeholder's political career to let a LOCAL get away with it, much less some out-of-state freak.

                          The fact that the defendant is a pint-sized actor from the big city who appears to have started the fire for publicity isn't likely to help either.
  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 9:29 AM
    The following is what I think. You are not required to agree. I do think it and I am sharring.

    Safety third second and first etc, ok.
    Don't slap asses(unless allowed by the person), ok.
    Don't burn other art(unless allowed by person), ok.

    As for buining the man welll I'm not sure. .
    I do not think that he would go burn Your art or My art. He did burn Our art.
    I was communal and not any one persons.

    In some part of me(soul,mind,body whatever) I think it is really Nice that the man burned twice duriing Green Man.

    Ok, I have a cigarette and blindfold ready. Fire away.

    P.S. Always open to more friends(or aquaintaces if that is to strong a word).
    P.S.S Seriouslly if you want to ripp on my views or personahead, I asure you no offense will be taken and maybe we'll learn something.
  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 11:02 AM
    I would like to see mr. addis be completely ignored.

    He obviously did this because he was a nobody, and this was his desperate cry for attention. Since then, he's gotten press interviews, his name plastered all over the papers, and numerous threads started on tribe with his name in it. Exactly what he wanted.

    Keep giving him this attention, and you'll find even more bi-polar tweekers doing even more crime for attention.
    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

      Tue, September 18, 2007 - 5:13 PM
      Maybe his desire for attention will be fulfilled when he bends over to pick up a bar of soap in the prison shower. But, maybe he like that sort of thing.

      And, therein may lay the motive....
  • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

    Tue, September 18, 2007 - 6:04 PM
    Yep...

    - He made no attempt to clear out the pavillion below (there are MULTIPLE people who can witness to this, despite his claims). There were people both awake and sleeping there. Their lives and safety are forfeit because of where they chose to hang out / pass out? (um, that would fall under guideline A)
    - He destroyed the man and caused (albeit) minor destruction to the shade and structures below (still falls under B and C, at least from the financial standpoint if nothing else)
    - He's completely screwed himself out of any real defense. Nevermind that he claimed his stance of "not guilty" in the Wired interview... he's been seen in multiple videos and participated in written interviews fully admitting his guilt. Just for shooting his mouth off and being dumb enough to brag in video and written interviews about what he did pretty much seals it. That's his own fault for putting more nails in his own coffin.

    Sure, he had a beef with the Org and so do many others. There are potentially hundreds of non-threatening and far more artistic (and effective) methods he could have used to rally many to his cause. Instead the method he chose was dangerous and potentially deadly. Doesn't matter what his intent was... You can walk into a store and point a gun to the clerk's head to steal food because you're hungry, or you can go to a shelter and get a free meal (ok, maybe not everywhere). Maybe that's a bad analogy, but the comparison in severity between the acts is pretty similar. If someone had died or been seriously injured, I bet this thread would never have shown up on Tribe.

    I will agree with one thing, that the sentencing may seem a little harsh...

    but I think the fuck should rot in jail... at least for a while.
    • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

      Tue, September 18, 2007 - 7:36 PM
      >He's completely screwed himself out of any real defense. Nevermind that he claimed his stance of "not guilty" in the Wired interview... he's >been seen in multiple videos and participated in written interviews fully admitting his guilt. Just for shooting his mouth off and being dumb >enough to brag in video and written interviews about what he did pretty much seals it. That's his own fault for putting more nails in his own >coffin

      As an ex-lawyer you'd think he'd know when to keep his mouth shut.
      • Re: Thirty-three to forty-one years?

        Wed, September 19, 2007 - 7:27 AM
        "As an ex-lawyer you'd think he'd know when to keep his mouth shut."

        Perhaps as an ex-lawyer, he knows exactly what he's doing and shrewdly knew well before he climbed up on those logs and set the fire.

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