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Tribe begins massive censorship.

topic posted Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:18 PM by  Unsubscribed
Today all Moderators of "Mature Tribes" recieved an e-mail from "Wade" VP of Marketing for Tribe. He was informing all users that there would no longer be a Mature designation for tribes.

In addition users with profiles marked as "Mature" were informed that their accounts were being modified.

In addition they are deleting all users under the age of 18, which seems pointless if you are removing all mature content.

Rather than Tribe going the route of City Lights bookstore in San Francisco (which fought a landmark first amendment case to be able to publish Allen Ginsberg's then deemed obscene poem "Howl") they are going the route of the cowardly Ford which caved to the American Family Association (AFA.)


Hi,

We wanted to drop a note to everybody who currently moderates a “Mature” tribe, because of these important changes coming up on December 20th:

1) We’re implementing Community Flagging. To ensure that all posts are respectful, and to respond to concerns from our users about some of the content on the site being offensive, we’re going to allow members to flag content (photos and listings) for removal. In our judgment, it’s likely that at least some of the photos in the Mature tribe(s) you currently moderate will be flagged for removal by other tribe.net members.

2) We’re updating our Terms of Use (“TOU”). This update is to reflect changes in the legal environment facing us and our members. In particular, posting content that portrays obscenity, pornography, or sexually explicit conduct is for practical purposes illegal for members like ours under U.S. federal law. So it will be prohibited in our TOU, and we will drop the “Mature” designation from your tribe and sitewide.

3) If your tribe currently has “public” status, we’ll be switching it to “private” status on 12/20. This means that only invited members will be able to see any content in it, and any links to content inside the tribe will only work if the user is already a member of your tribe. It also means your tribe will not appear in search results. We’re making the switch for you to give you time to remove all the content that’s in violation of the new TOU. (As a moderator, you will always have the option down the road of switching the status back to public).

What to do now: we suggest you remove all photos that you think are likely to be considered in violation of the new TOU. When you’re done with that, and only then, go to the Manage Tribe page and change the Mature category for your tribe from Mature to whatever seems most appropriate. Doing this now may save you a lot of work down the road, but it is only an option to you before 12/20.

Tribe will always depend on great moderators for remaining a great service, and so we’re grateful for your help as we all go through these changes. If you have questions, we’ll be discussing this online at moderators.tribe.net and tribeideas.tribe.net

Thanks,

Wade Lagrone
VP Marketing, Tribe.net
www.tribe.net/template/pub%2CAbout.vm

P.S. If you have so many photos to remove that it’s a big chore, let us know and we’ll figure out a way to help.
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  • Chia...
    ChiaLynn
    online 85

    Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

    Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:38 PM
    Okay, let me get this straight... You can have "mature" content in a tribe, but only if it's a private tribe, even though all members must be over 18... I assume you can still have "mature" photos in your profile, but only if you mark them "friends only," or whatever that new designation is... And this is, supposedly, because it's illegal to display "obscene" or "pornographic" content on an open site in the US, even though pornographic is very much a 1st Amendment grey area and obscene has to go a whole lot further than naked boobies, even though a number of tribes have recently been marked "mature" for photos with nipples or even photos with suggested sexual content, but no nudity... Is that about right?

    *sigh*

    "Well, sir, I don't like it. I don't like it at all."
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    • Irenie
      Irenie
      offline 290

      Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

      Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:45 PM
      (an excerpt from something I posted to my blog earlier)

      um, excuse me, but I have one booby shot in my album. nothing sexual, just me cruising around burning man sans shirt, but regardless, maybe someone doesn't want to see boobies, so I had already marked my profile mature to ward off the booby-haters.

      Now we have Tribe taking away the mature rating and forcing everyone to homogenize what they feel is offensive and non-offensive. With membership in places like Tulsa and Wichita, does this mean I have to conform to Ma & Pa's standard of decency to keep in touch with a very different community I live with here?

      maybe so. check the response on tribeideas (click below)

      tribeideas.tribe.net/thread/...da1ed600

      one user asked the same question, "It seems like that now people in Podunck, Kansas; Hicktown, Alabama and Godly, Texas will be able to proscribe content on profiles and tribes that originate in San Francisco, Portland and New York. They ain't exactly got the same community values, you know! "

      tribe's response was, "The answer here is "not really", though I see your point. It's true that we'll have a national standard, but it's also true that practically speaking it'd be unlikely that a single user in some small town would be able to seriously swing our sitewide standard one way or another..."

      if they don't believe one person from Podunk is going to set the rules, then how many? and why won't they clarify what's indecent or offensive? what's going to stop a group of determined fundamentalist internet gestapos from taking it upon themselves to clean up content they see as filth and we see as art?

      I threw up a little in my mouth when a few months back I logged on to see some clumsy, obnoxious seizure-inducing flashing ad in the middle of every page that clearly demonstrated the lack of thought Tribe seemed to put into their new ad placements. It wasn't quite enough to make me leave tribe, since I could just block them with the right browser and plug-ins, but I don't think there's a plug-in out there that can make Tribe interesting again once the new censorship starts to take hold.

      So here's something for all all the programmers and web designers in this userbase, (and I KNOW there's an incredible amount of intelligence on here, at least until the mass exodus begins)... you've got this ready-made userbase ready to jump ship if they could only find the right place to express themselves without being asked every other month to swallow some new BS that management keeps digging out of their asscrack.

      Get cracking, cuz they've already lost the edge on this market a long time ago.
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      • Anita
        Anita
        offline 393

        Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:18 PM
        I'll just go back to using friendster, I guess
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        • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

          Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:31 PM
          I almost cried today when I learned Ford pulled all of their advertising from Gay friendly magazines because of pressure from the religious right. Now the right is boycotting and pressuring Target to replace "Happy Holidays" in their stores and ads with "Merry Christmas". And now this. Sadly, if we all leave tribe I fear there's enough of 'them' that they'd replace us in due time and in the end Tribe will consider it a wash. So if we're gonna send tribe a message we gotta do it fast.

          My proposal:

          All moderators who have tribes that are not very active... kill the tribe. I suspect there are lots of them. Do you think that would have an effect if Tribe started to see their #'s plummet?
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          • Gues...
            GuessWho
            offline 105

            Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

            Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:44 PM
            "Do you think that would have an effect if Tribe started to see their #'s plummet?"

            No, it won't. Please see my previous post on the law behind why they're doing this.
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            • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

              Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:48 PM
              I understand the law is driving it, but I think they have options on how to meet the requirements of the law and still continue to have mature tribes. They are choosing to become non-mature.
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              • Rich
                Rich
                offline 89

                Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

                Thu, December 8, 2005 - 12:50 AM
                I shared this with Offensive Boobies individually and I'll share it here with you as well.

                We mustn't blame the Tribe. they're just covering their ass.

                The blame lies with the religious right that expanded the child protection law (prevention and prosecution of child pornography) to include every adult oriented site. the technical reality is that, under this law, the Tribe would have to have documentation (proof) on file for every single nude or sexually suggestive picture from every person that ever posts a picture proving that the age of every person in every picture is over 18. if they don't, they could (and likely would) be prosecuted and end up spending the rest of their lives in a federal prison.

                THAT'S the problem.

                I HATE what's happened and I HATE the uptight, sexually repressed, have nothing better to do with their life but point fingers religious right. I HATE the thought of losing a great, safe space for the free and open sharing of ideas, opinions, and ways of being; a place where people are free to associate with like-minded individuals.

                I will look for another place where this exists. (Like a new site created by and for burners called NoSpectators.com)

                In the mean time, I hope enough people get pissed off enough by what's happening to actually DO something about this and tell these people to get a life and keep their opinions to themselves.

                Remember, the Moral Majority is neither!
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            • matthew
              matthew
              online 244

              Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

              Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:49 PM
              ok kids calm down.

              i seriously doubt this will have much of an effect.

              people who are offended by such things will probably not visit the places where they find them. and such pictures can be easily replaced.
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              • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

                Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:52 PM
                I disagree, I think it will have an effect. As it is now, the TOU police tell us to remove all pics with titties. We oblige because we don't want to be a mature tribe. Now, there are no mature tribes. TOU will be tapping us on the shoulder every day.
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          • Lulu...
            Lulubelle
            offline 78

            Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

            Fri, December 9, 2005 - 8:59 AM
            Here is the thing... I don't see Tribe as the "enemy" here. They hate this new regulation as much as we do. Unfortunately, as a business doing business in the US, they have to abide by the laws governing the country. I've been amazed they've been able to get away with as much as they get away with for this long.

            I don't blame Tribe for trying to stay in business. At no point have they pretended to be a non-profit or activist group. They are a bunch of people trying to make a worthwile living by providing a FREE, valuable service to the community. We all benefit from that.

            On the other hand, they have the right wing breathing down their necks with threats of pulling the plug if they don't do something to manage the content. Really, what would you do? What options do they really have? I certainly don't like the religious right sticking their nose in my business, and deciding what I can or can't do. And this entire government is full with hipocrites, who censor pornography in public and probably go home to read their NAMBLA newsletter and jack off to some young thing that is being abused for the purpose of entertaining a fat fuck in Texas.

            So I don't blame Tribe for doing what they are doing. I hope they manage to stay in business, so they can provide me with a forum where I am able to say things that would otherwise go unheard.
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            • Gues...
              GuessWho
              offline 105

              Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

              Fri, December 9, 2005 - 9:17 AM
              "So I don't blame Tribe for doing what they are doing. I hope they manage to stay in business, so they can provide me with a forum where I am able to say things that would otherwise go unheard."

              I totally agree, Lulubelle. I also want to point out that this law applies to ALL public websites, so wherever you guys are planning to go to will also have to deal with it. Abandoning Tribe after they've provided a fantastic free space for us to gather does nothing but hurt a community that has asked nothing of us until now.

              So go to ePlaya or wherever it is you want to go, but be aware that the same law will follow you there, too. I plan to stay here and continue contacting representatives to effect change from within instead of tucking my tail between my legs and running away.

              Especially when all you'd have to do on Tribe to keep your naked photos is make your profile Friends Only.
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      • Gues...
        GuessWho
        offline 105

        Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:43 PM
        "you've got this ready-made userbase ready to jump ship if they could only find the right place to express themselves without being asked every other month to swallow some new BS that management keeps digging out of their asscrack."

        I totally get your point, and think Tribe is dealing with this whole thing a little strangeley, but I just wanted to point out...

        *Any* public message board that can be viewed by minors has to comply with the laws regarding portrayed nudity and sexuality: tribe isn't "digging" anything out of their asscrack, it actually is a law. The only way for a board to legally show photos of absolutely anything they want is if they are private and confirm every user's age before they join to ensure that they're over 18.

        Don't blame tribe, blame the Attorney General: he's the one who decided that this law, which was intended only to deal with pornographers, should also apply to all websites.

        Good summary of the law, how it came about, who it applies to, and what the penalties are for breaking it: my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/primer.html
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        • Abraxas
          Abraxas
          offline 70

          Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

          Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:52 PM
          >>*Any* public message board that can be viewed by minors has to comply with the laws regarding portrayed nudity and sexuality: tribe isn't "digging" anything out of their asscrack, it actually is a law. The only way for a board to legally show photos of absolutely anything they want is if they are private and confirm every user's age before they join to ensure that they're over 18.

          I just don't get it though... who's ever had to confirm their age on Google image search? (or the thousands of sites from whence their results originate?)
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        • Chia...
          ChiaLynn
          online 85

          Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

          Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:56 PM
          It's not nudity that's at issue, though. Nudity is (in most circumstances) protected by the First Amendment. This law regulates depictions of "sexually explicit conduct." And regardless of whether the law itself is valid (I feel that it's unconstitutionally vague and over-reaching), Tribe has recently marked a number of tribes "mature" for content which is not, according to the legal definition, sexually explicit. This is my concern about the new rules -- that the law is being construed too broadly, and that the result will be a gag on any depiction or discussion of nudity or sexuality. And thus far, Tribe hasn't been very clear about the status of "adult" or "mature" content that does not reach the level of "sexually explicit" content.
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          • Gues...
            GuessWho
            offline 105

            Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

            Wed, December 7, 2005 - 9:09 PM
            "And regardless of whether the law itself is valid (I feel that it's unconstitutionally vague and over-reaching), Tribe has recently marked a number of tribes "mature" for content which is not, according to the legal definition, sexually explicit. This is my concern about the new rules -- that the law is being construed too broadly, and that the result will be a gag on any depiction or discussion of nudity or sexuality."

            I agree with you. I was simply trying to point out to the people who were freaking out and screaming "the sky is falling!" that Tribe is not just pulling this out of their asses.

            If people are going to protest anything, I would protest the way this is being done rather than them following the law because if it comes down to a choice between appeasing a bunch of angry burners or going to jail, I know which one they'll pick. And I think it's totally unreasonable to expect them to put their lives on the line just because you want to show naked photos without boundaries.

            If you think the law sucks, work to change it. If you want Tribe to deal with this differently, contact them and offer useful suggestions. But yelling and screaming and telling everyone to just go somewhere else is just running away and pouting, and I know the burner community is WAY better than that.

            Come on guys, effect real change instead of sulking. I know you can do it.
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            • Rich
              Rich
              offline 89

              Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

              Thu, December 8, 2005 - 12:55 AM
              There are several appeals under way to overturn this law, but more needs to be done.

              I agree with Guess (as usual). If this pisses you off enough, maybe you'll get involved and do something about it.

              I'm sick to death of the religious right shoving their opinion of morality and right and wrong down everybody's throat. But until enough of us decide organize and be heard, THIS will only get worse.
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    • Timber
      Timber
      offline 92

      Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

      Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:47 PM
      Now if EVER there was a call for utter Fucko-ism, Shit Disturbing, and wanton Mischief, this is it.

      We are Burners. We create amazing things and then burn it down just because we feel like it. We mock "reality" and those who cling to it like a railing on the Titanic.

      This isn't just a Tribe change. They are bending to new laws. It's time to stir some mischievious shit up. Is anyone else up for some good natured Appalling of the Muggles? Just something so shocking to the fast appraoching Planet Disney, that it might make them step back and realize they're taking themselves just a little too seriously?

      Let the games begin...
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  • Reve...
    Reverend Zed
    offline 123

    Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

    Wed, December 7, 2005 - 4:56 PM
    Fuckers.

    ~ZED~
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    • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

      Wed, December 7, 2005 - 5:16 PM
      is it at all possible that we're gettin all worked up over a situation that may not play out as we all suspect it will.

      maybe we should slow down, not move so fast, and see if it becomes as stiffled as we fear it might....

      they may be just posting the "intent" to appease the the powers that are pushing for the censorship....

      of course, I could be wrong, but before we all blow a fuse maybe we should wait a see if they push the issue beyond whats reasonable....

      as Zed Said...... FUCKERS!!!.... (I think this warrants the caps, dont you)

      Bare
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      • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 5:27 PM
        Damn you, Voice of Reason ;-)
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        • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

          Wed, December 7, 2005 - 5:44 PM
          LMAO!!! I know.. sucks.... really.....

          I think it must be the xanax.... the sky could be falling and I wouldnt give a shit... LOL!!!

          i'm usually the one ready to kick ass and take names later.. but lately, I seems to be breathing more and not rushing to jump ship with all the passengers, and instead watch for the rats to bail and before I go....... LOL!!!!!

          Bare
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      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 5:44 PM
        Lyin' Bare,

        Normally I would agree with you, but they're not just posting a policy, they are taking action. All Mature tribes will be changed to "private" tribes which means nobody will be able to see them in a search, even if they try to search for mature content. Only once you have "cleaned up" your tribe will you be able to make it a public tribe again.

        Once your tribe goes public again it'll then be subject to user flagging for posts, and photos (which is the majority of content on tribe) by any individual, or group, that seeks to remove your content.
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        • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

          Wed, December 7, 2005 - 5:53 PM
          "Once your tribe goes public again it'll then be subject to user flagging"

          The way I read it private tribes will be subject to flagging too. Did I read it wrong?
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          • Michael
            Michael
            offline 28

            Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

            Wed, December 7, 2005 - 6:37 PM
            Here is an idea, since pornagraphy is judged upon a community standard, let's scour tribe the day flagging goes live and flag every damn right wing, bullshit conservative image and profile we can find that violates our community standard. Flag homophobes and racists and closed minded neocons. Or just set one day and nobody post for that day, I wonder how much a zero hit day would inspire the people paying for those annoying little ads.

            Oh, and of course Fuckers
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            • Re: Tribe begins massive censorship.

              Wed, December 7, 2005 - 6:51 PM
              "Or just set one day and nobody post for that day, I wonder how much a zero hit day would inspire the people paying for those annoying little ads. "

              Ya mean like the Lets not anyone buy Gasoline day.... hate to break it to ya.. but that doesnt even make a dent in the issue.... ya may make a point for the day but it's small fry fish in the scheme of things....

              Nice thought though.....

              maybe put this entire operation on a server out of the US where its not subject to US laws.... kinda like the Old Wolfman Jack days....

              anyone remember XPRS in Rosalito Baja California/Mexico...

              or am I the only ancient person in here.....

              Bare
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