John Law was right...

Let's see LEED is for sustainable site development, water savings, energy efficiency, materials selection, and indoor environmental quality. What's the problems with it Jeffrey?

to my statement:
>"By this line of reasoning, the only way we can really "save the earth" is to kill ourselves (and, as the more radical version goes, take 50 or a hundred with us). "

Jeffrey replied:
"Wow way to take a joke. "

Chris:
I don't follow this line of reasoning, and I wasn't implying that you were, either. I was just putting it out there as something that I have actually heard other people say when this topic came up. It gives me hope when people have an adverse reaction to that statement.

Jeffery:
"The reason I get snarky about this year's theme is that I am a design professional, two tests away from my Architect's license, and have in the past worked for some of the 'greenest' firms in the Bay Area. Now I run my own design firm that makes heavy use of sustainable, water-based, and/or recycled materials and tries to make everything really really efficient and earth-friendly and such."

So it's something I take pretty seriously, and have for years."

Chris:
As far as snark, I'm throwing my share, too-- and it's a basic principle of written communication that it's very hard to convey sarcasm, irony, snarkasm, etc, and no matter how you try, there will always be someone (or lots of someones) who completely miss your point.

But, parties in the desert aside, I work as a wildlife toxicologist, so "this whole "Green" thing" is something that I take pretty fuckin' seriously, too (and it warms my heart to hear what you're doing for a living, even though that doesn't make me immune from wanting to ask you some pretty challenging questions about fostering the creation of new buildings on undeveloped terrain, regardless of the history, characteristics, or "color" of the materials ). So don't even get me started on Greenwashing, etc.

In all seriousness (despite your admonition not to take this seriously), just EXACTLY what the world needs is for people to be challenged on their assumptions and preconceptions about a whole LOT of stuff.

Jeff:
"When a died-in-the-wool 'burner' was talking about how important this year's theme was, and how much they were into it, to me once, well, I simply didn't have the heart to ask any real questions. Like how they felt about LEEDs, and it's problems. Or about Greenwashing. Or about any other 'real' topic concerning 'green' things, because, well... well first off they simply wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about. And secondly I really doubt that they care to learn. They just want to feel good that they are being part of something 'good'. Not something that actually, you know, is all messy and hard and problematic and real. "

Wow, that's too bad, because that's exactly the types of questions you should be asking them. Though I'm not going to attribute it to any concious choice or motive on the part of BMOrg, I think that this year's theme is more valuable just exactly because it lends itself to this kind of self-examination (much better than "the floating world", which apparently just caused most people to think about pirates).

And I think that your concern for the delicate egos of Burners is unwarranted. One thing that I've noticed about a lot of "died-in-the-wool" burners (at least the ones who haven't smothered in their scarves ;- ) is that they are not adverse to thinking, and they tend to have enough sense of self that they aren't crushed if someone challenges their preconceptions. My take on Burning Man is that it seems to be all about crushing preconceptions ("I didn't think people did *that*!!"), and "Burners" seem to be made up mostly of people who didn't run as fast as they could from the playa, never to return, but instead were able to "get the punchline" and incorporate it into their lives (even if it's just "wow- I guess I can't party in the sun and heat for two days without taking care of myself"-- even that is a step on up the ladder, I think)

Just an opinion here, but I think that half the problem with the "real world" is that we allow ourselves and everyone else way too much latitude to just meander around safe in our world of half-baked notions. Challenging questions are the sunshine that we need to disinfect the mold growing in our brains. And I really do think that for some percentage of the Burner population, being caused to stop and think about things on the playa (or in the process leading up to it) WILL transmit through to the other 50 weeks of their year. At least, professionally speaking, I hope to hell it will.

If we take this so seriously that we can't play around and enjoy, I think that it puts a false choice in front of people: "You can be "serious" about the fate of the world, or you can go to Burning Man." I'm doing my best to NOT take it seriously (let me tell you about my EL-wire bra with animated pinching fingers), but I'm also a lot more mindful of how I'm doing things this year-- riding my bike more, trying harder to reclaim/reuse stuff rather than going out and buying new. And, being challenged to think about what "Green" really means in the context of Burning Man, is leaking through into my "real world", and causing me to think about what "Green" means throughout my life, or style, or lifestyle, or whatever.

So, I hope you are planning on joining in on the fun and preconception-pricking! If not (not sure from your posts, but it seems that you're boycotting the whole thing because of its wastrel ways?), that's OK, too. But I know that I'll be out there doing my best to laugh, love, learn, and teach; because for me, anyway, this year is not "just a party", but a "party with a point."

andie you don't work for the LLC is that you are saying and you've never gotten a paycheck from them ever. forgive me then for that mistake all these years.