Addis-Hole caught in the act....

topic posted Fri, September 14, 2007 - 3:09 PM by  Ibdave
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Just found this photo on a blog...

www.amandafritz.com/node/1253
posted by:
Ibdave
  • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

    Fri, September 14, 2007 - 3:29 PM
    Cool photo!!

    Much cooler than your kindergarten comments, btw.

    Free Paul Addis!
    • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

      Fri, September 14, 2007 - 3:34 PM
      I don't think the issue is whether the act is intentional.
      I think the issue is whether it should be pursued legally.
      My answer... no charges should be pursued.
      Its burning man.
      I can appreciate it.
      Let the guy go.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Fri, September 14, 2007 - 4:29 PM
        'I think the issue is whether it should be pursued legally. '

        you and I don't have a say in the 'issue' .

        An act of arson happened on BLM land. It has it's own inertia well beyond what the BORG desires.

        I'm glad you appreciate what happened, but there are many others who do not.

        one thing for sure, it will not be a jury of burners who will be deciding his fate. It will be a bunch of Reno retirees.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Fri, September 14, 2007 - 5:50 PM
        I think the issue is if you support people taking action they believe is good for the future of the event. Knowing you are a big supporter of that Sunshine I know you can appreciate folks taking the path they believe is right. Thanks for your support!
        • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Fri, September 14, 2007 - 6:11 PM
          That photo is clearly the accused. It can be cleaned up with software and it will clearly show it is the named dickhead.

          Even though dabomb may be right . . . there is no fire in that photo.

          I'd be happy if they just banned him for life with the condition that if he returns and is caught they throw him in prison for 5 years.

          Sort of a condition of probation.

          Just because you think you have a reason to do something does not justify your means.

          He should get jail time for the lame makeup if nothing else.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

            Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:07 PM
            "Just because you think you have a reason to do something does not justify your means. "

            This needs to be added to the job description of the President of the United States.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 8:50 AM
        How is it that he can be convicted of arson when he burned up something that was constructed so that it could be burned? Do I commit arson when I light a candle?
        • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Sat, September 15, 2007 - 11:40 AM
          Badass I can understand you confusion on the fact that the man is meant to be burned however its this simple.
          Arson is the intentional burning of someone elses property.

          Addis did not own the man therefore his act of burning it was against the law and was arson.
          It does not matter if the owner in the case the Bmorg intends to burn it eventually they are the only ones with the right to burn there property
          • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

            Sat, September 15, 2007 - 5:32 PM
            Gigi:
            > burningman is not an acceptabel excuse to commite arson, assualt, battery, rape, sexual assualt, drunk driving or any other horrid violent antisocial distructive illegal behaviour.

            Sorry... but neither arson and drunk driving are not violent behaviors. If setting something on fire is violent, then the entire BMORG is guilty of violence.

            > Arson is the intentional burning of someone elses property.

            Actually, according to Nevada law, arson is the _malicious_ burning of someone else's property.

            In order to prove the crime, the DA has to prove that it was malicious, as opposed to just a joke which was in the spirit of the festival.

            > How would you feel if the same jackass came and burned down your camp because he did not agree with it.

            Depending on the situation, I might be amused.

            From all that I've heard, Larry Harvey laughed when he heard that someone had finally burned down the man early.

            Get a sense of humor. Apparently Larry still has one.
            • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

              Sun, September 16, 2007 - 2:54 PM
              "Sorry... but neither arson and drunk driving are not violent behaviors. If setting something on fire is violent, then the entire BMORG is guilty of violence. "

              Bullshit. First burning the man where there are people under the flammable, plastic shade structure could have had a very different outcome. There were rangers pulling passed out individuals out of there as it burned.

              Second you don't rember the drunk who killed several people when he ran over a tent.

              Lastly if you think the DA is going to have trouble convincing a jury of conservative nevada ranchers that Addis-hole is guilty you're still high from the playa. I've been in the courthouse in lovelock and seen a jury convict (I was a witness). My bet - it will get pled out to probation with a stipulation that he not attend the event.

              Trapper
              • Re: Rebellion at Burningman - a classic act....

                Sun, September 16, 2007 - 3:47 PM
                Trapper:
                > Bullshit. First burning the man where there are people under the flammable ... Second you don't rember the drunk who killed several people when he ran over a tent.

                I think that your memory is flawed about what happened when the tent got run over.

                But that's besides the point. These are still not violent acts.

                How do you define a "violent" act? Does the possibility of someone getting hurt make an act violent?

                Anytime that you drive down the street or anytime that any piece of art is burned at Burningman someone _could_ get hurt. Does that make these things acts of violence? No, of course not.

                Paul may have engaged in an act of protest, or just in a prank on a grand scale. But it was _not_ an act of violence.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:09 PM
          "How is it that he can be convicted of arson when he burned up something that was constructed so that it could be burned?"

          For the sake of argument: the tarp below the man was also partially burned and it was not intended to be burned.

          "Do I commit arson when I light a candle?"

          If it's not your candle, yes, you do.
          • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

            Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:12 PM
            > the tarp below the man was also partially burned and it was not intended to be burned.

            minor collateral damage. chinese-made tarps are so cheap that this will no show up as a major loss in the BM organization accounting :)

            you cannot make a good omelet without breaking some eggs...
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

              Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:17 PM
              hmm, somehow I think Addis' public defender wont attempt this defense.
              • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

                Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:27 PM
                i can't believe so much resources and time is spent over this prank.

                there are events in the world (and even just a BM) that are way more serious than burning this stick-figure a few days early.

                and the BM org got free national advertising in the national press, something that costs way more than building another man if you must pay for such an advertizing campain.

                this was all free advertising for BM, on national news, and on bay area new papers front pages. so i'm sure larry must be really happy that this happened, and i hope that he will convince officials to reduce addis charges.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 9:10 AM
        "My answer... no charges should be pursued.
        Its burning man.
        I can appreciate it.
        Let the guy go."

        Well, would you feel he same way if someone you loved was in the pavillion when he set the man on fire? Because there were people in there.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 11:26 AM
        "its burningman" is the same excuse it seems everyone who breaks a law there uses and tries to use in a court of law.
        Its the same excuse the now convicted rapist of 2 women on the playa used.. its burningman its excpected so what they cgot more than they bargined for.

        Sorry I am not buying it.
        Its burningman is not an acceptabel excuse to commite arson, assualt, battery, rape, sexual assualt, drunk driving or any other horrid violent antisocial distructive illegal behaviour. I dont care what you do if it effects no one but your self .. wanna get high and be stupid fine just don't drive, wanna make a statment about Buringman and your opinions on it fine just don't destroy others property doing so.
        How would you feel if the same jackass came and burned down your camp because he did not agree with it.

        Much of the spin this metanly ill man has put out is pure BS.
        and lets acknowledge what he is a man with a long history of mental illness who has been in and out of institutions and mental health facilities for years.
        He is no hero he is not a poster child for some statment he is just a mentaly ill guy who did somthing destructive and now has every one acting like his ytwisted ranting had actual meaning.
        • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Sat, September 15, 2007 - 1:54 PM
          I agree. When you destroy stuff that doesn't belong to you, it's not "radical self-expression" --it's vandalism.
          • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

            Sat, September 15, 2007 - 2:03 PM
            > When you destroy stuff that doesn't belong to you, it's not "radical self-expression" --it's vandalism

            hum - the man belongs to everyone, and that stick-figure is built to be burned. i was quite happy to see it burn on monday, and i was really surprised that this did not happen earlier, i mean, in the previous years.

            BM has become too organized, too predictable, way too civilized. i think this early burn was more like the original spirit of the event, originally a way more anarchic, less corporate gathering. hi-five to addis!

            anyway, next year, there will be no such problem since they will burn a man every night of the week (see eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php )
            • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

              Sat, September 15, 2007 - 3:07 PM
              Tristan said:
              hum - the man belongs to everyone, and that stick-figure is built to be burned.

              Actually that is incorrect, the Man is made from wood that BRC LLC buys, it is built by the labor volunteers organized by BRC LLC, and it even pays some of them. Does it matter where their money comes from? Under US law BRC LLC owns the Man and can do whatever it wants with it. Burning Man is not some democracy or anarchist's utopia, get over it.

              Paul Addis commited a crime (not all crimes need victims) on FEDERAL PROPERTY. He put the local LEOs to work, they don't like that, and they will make him pay. It doesn't matter what you, me, BRC LLC, this Tribe, or anybody else thinks it is out of our hands. The local prosecutor and the appropriate Law Enforcement entities are the ones you should be trying to convince.

              THAT Andi
              BMHIRC
  • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

    Fri, September 14, 2007 - 3:35 PM
    Hi ibdave.

    My only issue with this image is that it does not clearly identify the accused or show an act of arson. Where's the fire? I only see a possible humanoid and the Man's neon.
    • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

      Sat, September 15, 2007 - 8:41 AM
      "My only issue with this image is that it does not clearly identify the accused or show an act of arson. Where's the fire? I only see a possible humanoid and the Man's neon. "


      it doesent friggin matter they dont need this photo to prove he did it, they caught his ass in the act. this is just for bonus points.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sun, September 16, 2007 - 3:56 PM
        I agree with you Jamie, in that the accused will be found guilty of the crime through other pieces of evidence, eye witnesses and testimony from LEOs. I'm just saying that this photo alone is not proof enough to convict him because it doesn't clearly identify him and there is no apparent visual representation of a fire. To me, the photo is akin to a bloody glove. It's interesting to look at though. Steve Fritz is an excellent photographer, I've used his work -- with permission I might add -- in my podcast.
  • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

    Fri, September 14, 2007 - 6:42 PM
    Paul is now my god. Every High Holy Day I construct a life size idol of Larry composed of rancid deli meats & burn it, so that the delicious perfume of charred animal flesh reaches my dear lord, Paul Addis!


    HAIL! Paul Addis!


    www.itsonlyamovie.co.uk/cover%...VHS.jpg
    • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

      Sat, September 15, 2007 - 8:44 AM
      "Paul is now my god. Every High Holy Day I construct a life size idol of Larry composed of rancid deli meats & burn it, so that the delicious perfume of charred animal flesh reaches my dear lord, Paul Addis! "


      well see now your onto something, you build your own art project and burn it yourself. not just running over to your neighbors and burning their life size doll of rancid deli meat. you build it ,you burn it! now if you could teach your pal paul a thing or two........
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 4:02 PM

        As I burn the effigy of rancid deli meat (dedicated to my god) My small army of cultist would be loading the long range trebuchet with mounds of flaming human fat combined with gelled gasoline & launching the yummy mixture at the large, man shaped pile of sticks!
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

    Fri, September 14, 2007 - 8:49 PM
    While we worship Paul let us not forget that there were people directly below the man when he set it on fire. He did endanger the lives of others.
    • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

      Sat, September 15, 2007 - 9:13 AM
      You cannot codemn someone for things that didn't happen.
      No one got hurt. Thankfully.
      You cant codemn someone for (what someone else called)... "those terrible might have beens!"
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 11:34 AM
        actually Sunshine you are incorrect the Law can and does condem people for could have beens.. its called endangering the public.. when some one commits an act that has the potental to harm others weather it did or not.
        • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Sun, September 16, 2007 - 10:37 AM
          re: "called endangering the public.. when some one commits an act that has the potental to harm others weather it did or not."

          As was pointed out weeks ago... (its still funny)...
          ah yes, and WHAT IF there was a bunch of small children napping under the Man... holding kittens.. and puppies... and surrounded by butterflies. While next to them grandmothers were knitting them tiny sweaters.

          What ifs are, as you can see, very hard to gauge.
          Since they DIDN'T HAPPEN.
          pretty illogical, you see.
          Trying to imagine possible outcomes.

          And yes, the "law" is surprisingly illogical most of the time.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 4:13 PM
        "You cannot condemn someone for things that didn't happen."

        So ... if you fire a gun into someone's home at night, if the bullets don't actually hit anyone, then it's just a really funny prank. If you kill the television you can claim it was a political statement. We all participate in the same economy, so really, any damaged property would be to "our" property and destined for eventual replacement anyway. Certainly not worth getting the law involved.

        I haven't read anyone condemning Paul for committing murder. That didn't happen. I would not be surprised if the charge was felony arson with reckless endangerment. Not to mention damage to exhibits in the pavilion.

        Of the several first hand reports that have come forward, I have not read anyone saying they were warned or asked to vacate the area prior to the Tuesday burn. I think Paul's claim of a group of people assuring public safety is entirely a product of his imagination and the act of a coward not willing to face the full consequences of his action.

        What I regret most is the effect this event will have on future security measures.
      • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

        Sat, September 15, 2007 - 4:29 PM
        So tell me, what's possesion with INTENT to distribute? Or ATTEMPTED murder? Or all the various traffic laws that are in place to keep people from killing each other on the road? Restraining orders deter people from doing things that "could be".

        No, Sunshine. There are MANY laws in place that can convict people of "those terrible might have beens."

        -Gabriel
        • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

          Sun, September 16, 2007 - 10:41 AM
          I shall repost since people certainly have their panties in a wad...

          As was pointed out weeks ago... (its still funny)...
          ah yes, and WHAT IF there was a bunch of small children napping under the Man... holding kittens.. and puppies... and surrounded by butterflies. While next to them grandmothers were knitting them tiny sweaters.

          What ifs are, as you can see, very hard to gauge.
          Particularly when talking about past events that have, ahem, ALREADY HAPPENED.
          pretty illogical, you see.

          And yes, the "law" is surprisingly illogical most of the time.
          • ?

            Sun, September 16, 2007 - 10:45 AM
            Ummm...
            why are all you people so rabid about the "what ifs" of this incident when no one got hurt...
            When you COULD be debating the fact that sexual assaults jumped this year.
            11 incidents were reported this year, according to Pershing Cty Sheriff, as reported on sfgate.com.

            hmmm?
            How about combating some real crime?
            I guess that is too boring and "real" for you.
            Yeah, lets just go back to talking about some irrelevant "what ifs" under the Man.
            Now, about those POTENTIAL children, kittens, puppies, butterflies, and grandmothers...
            • Re: ?

              Sun, September 16, 2007 - 3:19 PM
              >>why are all you people so rabid about the "what ifs" of this incident when no one got hurt...<<

              Because--despite the feelgood, spiritual hippie, XTC pretense of BM--people really like to feel offended by and hateful toward any target they can find. RVs, corporate logos, cops, whatever makes them happy to be angry at.

              Paul Addis is easy because he allegedly changed the schedule without permission. But it's hard to take someone's offense seriously when they got not one, but two burns for their money. So they have to add non-existent crimes to prove that Addis is indeed worthy of their hatred. Especially, when they learn that Addis seems to have changed the schedule for political reasons instead of for the pure joy of it. One mitigating factor has to be trumped by another mitigating factor to return the balance toward being worthy of their hate.

              But youre right on the sexual assaults part. Would knowing who the alleged attackers are make the public go after them with the same vigor that they've gone after Addis? I doubt it---and rape is a far worse crime than schedule changing in my book.
          • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

            Sun, September 16, 2007 - 11:02 AM
            We don't have to agree with the laws (god knows how many times I could of been convicted with possesion with intent to distribute), we just have to not be caught breaking them.

            -Gabriel
            • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

              Sun, September 16, 2007 - 11:09 AM
              oh youre all just happy that the law is on your side in this case (and against Paul Addis).

              And jeez, somehow I don't have any sympathy for your drug history.
              • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

                Sun, September 16, 2007 - 11:12 AM
                And still no response to why you all think the man is worth discussing more than the 11 reported cases of sexual assault.

                wonder why
                (no, don't bother answering that)
                • Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

                  Sun, September 16, 2007 - 1:54 PM
                  Sunshine:
                  > And still no response to why you all think the man is worth discussing more than the 11 reported cases of sexual assault.

                  I'll try to answer your question.

                  1) There's no controversy, we all think that it's terrible.

                  2) The most immediate solution would be to flood the playa with 10 times more cops, and I don't think that anyone wants that for a number of reasons.

                  3) The two topics might be related. If you encourage the event to be more counter-culture then there is a greater sense of community and problems like this go down. If you shift the event to cater to the lowest common denominator the population goes up, the sense of community diminishes, and the problems go up - from theft to sexual assault.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Addis-Hole caught in the act....

                    Sun, September 16, 2007 - 2:18 PM
                    well a much simpler answer might be that far more people know about and know details about the charges against paul addis than know about the 11 sexual assault charges, much less the details of said 11 charges
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Community does not prevent serious crimes.

                    Sun, September 16, 2007 - 9:00 PM
                    Re: "If you encourage the event to be more counter-culture then there is a greater sense of community and problems like this go down. If you shift the event to cater to the lowest common denominator the population goes up, the sense of community diminishes, and the problems go up - from theft to sexual assault. "

                    I disagree with you. I have read about some very serious crimes from BM in previous years. One very tragic gang rape (and it was also kidnapping) occurred several years ago according to a Ranger. I read about this incident from the writings of this Ranger, although I don't remember the exact year.
                    And that occurred before these recent watered down years.
                    So no, "community" really does not prevent serious crimes.
                    I think your conclusion was easy to make, but incorrect.
                    Some "community" members can in fact be criminal... and have indeed proven themselves to be rapists.
                    • Re: Community does not prevent serious crimes.

                      Sun, September 16, 2007 - 9:06 PM
                      Some "counter-culture" people can be quite wrong/criminal/immoral/sick...
                      The above example, for starters.
                      Also, an easy one to point out is the guy from Mutaytor who was on Chris Hansen's show, and revealed himself to be a very sick pedophile.

                      Just because someone appears to be part of a community, any community, doesn't mean they are OK.
                      Look at all the other people who get busted on Chris Hansen's show, (priests, rabbis, teachers, judges, etc)...
                      Or those who get busted in general, who are people in positions of authority and/or high positions in the community.
                      Appearances don't really mean a whole lot.
                      You never know about people.

                      One might even make the opposite argument that a sense of community dulls people's awareness towards the potential criminality of others.
                      Community is great, but don't let that make you think everyone's okay.
                      • Or maybe your community CAN prevent crimes?

                        Sun, September 16, 2007 - 9:10 PM
                        Or one could go further and say that if you have such faith in the power of community...
                        why don't you all - every attendee - take steps to strengthen that community to ensure that sexual assaults and similar crimes go down.
                        Watch out for your neighbors, fellow attendees.
                        Stand up for each other.
                        Maybe even start a neighborhood watch for your area.
                        If something looks wrong, get involved, step in, get the Rangers/authorities... and really try to prevent serious crimes.
                        • Re: Or maybe your community CAN prevent crimes?

                          Sun, September 16, 2007 - 9:27 PM
                          Sunshine:
                          > One very tragic gang rape (and it was also kidnapping) occurred several years ago according to a Ranger.

                          That's _very_ fucked up. I never heard anything about that.

                          > Or one could go further and say that if you have such faith in the power of community...

                          I don't have that much faith... If you know me, you'll know that I rather passionately believe that every rule has an exception.

                          My statements were far from absolute. I just think, in general, the stronger the sense of community, the more people look out for one another.

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