Theme Camp Placements

topic posted Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:41 AM by  Dustin
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posted by:
Dustin
Washington, D.C.
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:57 AM
    Is this final? They're not supposed to release it until Aug 1, or so I thought.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:11 AM
      no reason not to think it's final... I can't imagine them releasing it if it wasn't final....

      Bare
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:23 AM
        I believe it's final

        ~Trilo~
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:30 AM
          August first is only 5 days away....i would have to believe that this is final. Plus the location of some of the camps i know of, are in the right spots.
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:32 AM
            looks pretty final to me
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:37 AM
              YAY!

              Is it normal for a <300 watt camp to be placed at 2:00 ?

              - Jm
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:59 AM
                First street listed is your frontage road, correct?

                And how far apart are the A-B-C streets, 250'?
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:43 AM
                  Our camp asked to be 1-2 streets back, around 7:30-8:00.

                  They put us on the Esplanade at 6:30.



                  I'd love to live in San Francisco again one day, but if I do, I don't think I'd want to live out on Ocean Avenue, or at Market and 1st Street.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:34 AM
                    How is it that we requested to be on the Esplanade and ended up a few streets back, and camps who requested to be a few streets back ended up on the Esplanade?

                    This is just stupid. I am so frustrated.
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:36 PM

                Yes, this is normal. If you remember last year, there was a more quiet zone
                on 2:00, where BORG2 was located. Because of the success last year, of that
                zone, we decided to do it this year. Camps that have been placed there have
                been notified a few weeks ago already.

                And.. yes, this is final.

                Frog (frog@burningman.com)
                BRC Placement
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:02 AM
                  The zone around the BORG2 area worked fine, that was where I was camped. The only time it got loud was when the SkaterBoyz had their rock/punk band. The sound camps at the two ends were not a problem.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:09 AM
                    "Skaterboyz are irrelevent. Rock/punk bands are irrelevent. Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated." - Locutus of Borg/other Borg
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:07 AM
              Okay then. I'll be the first to say it.

              Bummer.

              They stuck us back where they stuck us last year even though we begged not to get stuck back there again. It's going to be just like last year. I prayed and prayed and prayed for different placement. I guess noone was listening.

              Sorry gang but I think I'm gonna cry.
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:14 AM
                Same here, Dusty.

                Not only did we not want to be there, but I think we're going to have some serious issues trying to navigate Playa Air through the streets to where they put us. I just don't think it's going to work out, and I don't feel like there's much we can do about it.

                I'm really disappointed.
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:14 AM
                Dusty, yeah, I really don't like the spoke plan. We were way out in the boonies last year too. Works great if you're NOT one of the camps on the outer edges of the spokes. (We became a part of a larger village and ended up with good placement this year.)

                Sorry, hon, I really do know what it feels like. What's your camp placement?
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:22 AM
                  We're in the 4:30 plaza, which puts us back on the F street. We were at 4:30 and Fetish last year.

                  Okay, so here's my plan for this year.

                  Do a really good job on my bike so it rides really well. Make a better basket so I can carry more stuff with me. Get up early and get dressed for the day and get out of camp. Bring food with me so I don't have to come back when I'm hungry. No cooking... it keeps me in camp too long. Accept the fact that we'll have no visitors. I love my campmates and want to spend as much time with them as possible, but at the same time, homebase is gonna be boring. I guess this is the year to see more art since the Esplanade is gonna be a lot tamer too, like last year. I love the spokes, but not the one layer deep esplanade and the attempt to push theme camps so far to the back. It doesn't work and it's unfair to the camps that get stuck back there.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:08 AM
                    We were at 4:20 and Fetish last year. What camp were you with?

                    We found that we got a lot more foot traffic by day and that it was a ghost town at night. I'm fairly vocal (and sure, a *smidge* dramatic) about my feelings against the spoke design. It looks like they changed it up a *little* this year. We'll see.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:20 AM
                    C'mon, Dusty. No expectations, baby! It may be very different from last year. Don't give up...hope.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 2:54 PM
                    I just checked and they put Space Cowboys on Espl again.
                    Which is just plain silly.

                    Space Cowboys are all about throwing a big party out on the open playa, leaving their camp dark and empty.
                    A big, dark hole on Espl frontage! Booooooring.
                    Put 'em on one of the outer edges facing the playa so they can get their rig in/out easily and still don't leave a big black hole on the Esplanade.
                    Ivy too, if she needs a big entry/exit path for her plane.

                    Ah, if I ruled the world...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:42 PM

                    I understand how you feel. But we have changed the avenues a lot this year. There will be lights,
                    and we have placed the strongest camps on the avenue. I am not sure which camp you are,
                    you have not mentionned the name, but I can tell you that the 4:30 Plaza and 7:30 Plaza (new
                    this year) are not going to be dead. There is also going to be an intense art piece in the
                    plaza.

                    Also, without knowing the name of camps that are mentionned in this thread, it is difficult to explain
                    the specifics.

                    Frog (frog@burningman.com)
                    BRC Placement
                    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:44 PM
                      Frog,

                      You are welcome to explain the specifics of the placement of Dreamtime (4:30 & Chance), either in this thread or to me privately. I am certainly baffled.
                      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:35 PM

                        Placement decisions are no secret. So, and I know you will not like the answer, I have placed
                        you at 4:30 and Chance because I found your camp very attractive, cute, funny, and exactely
                        what I was looking for the 4:30 avenue. Basically, you got that spot because I think you are
                        potentially a very great camp. No kidding.

                        The kind of camp that could have had Esplanade too (I know you asked for Esplanade), but
                        Esplanade is a very difficult space (10 times more camps want esplanade than there is space
                        there).

                        If you look at your neighbors, you will see well established theme camps, very strong, very funny...
                        AND.. very much in sync (as far as I can tell) with your theme: BRC Animal Control, Prisoner,
                        the Q, Astral Headwash. I mean, this is a very cool neighborhood which is going to drive a lot
                        of people in.

                        Your questionnaire did mention your art car, but you didn't mention the fact it needed to be
                        on Esplanade (if you don't mention it, do no expect us to just find out :-)).

                        Again, I really mean anything I am saying here.

                        I understand that it probably sound more logical to you that if I think you are such a great
                        camp, I should just give you what you asking for. But this is not what the role of Placement is.
                        We are not in the real estate business. Our role is to help camps, and also design the city.
                        Avenues is a direction the city design is going to, and our work is to make them happen.

                        This takes several means, including street lights (like those on Esplanade), creation of a
                        keyhole, creation of a plaza, and, careful placement of camps. Camps on the avenues, except for a
                        few exceptions have generators, and have said they were going to have lights at night. They are
                        also very interactive, and/or beautiful. There is a mix of day time and night time camps.

                        Finally, I will be camping in this area this year, so I will be part of it.

                        Theme camps are doing their thing, primarely because they want to (I know this is obvious).
                        But all theme camps want to give something to the community. I know you do too, this is
                        also obvious. I strongly believe that your location is going to not only let you have a
                        successfull camp (i.e. a camp that you will be proud of, a camp you will have fun with), but
                        I can garanty you that the impact of Dreamtime on the community will be much larger in the
                        avenue that it would have been on Esplanade: you will be in the middle of everything,
                        instead of being on the edge.

                        Burning Man is not that much about pre-playa expectation. The best experiences usually
                        come from unexpected.

                        Since we will be neighbors, (not immediate, but almost), I will stop by, and if you're not
                        happy with your placement, still, well, you will be able to tell me that face to face.

                        Frog
                        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 4:18 PM
                          >Your questionnaire did mention your art car, but you didn't mention the fact it needed to be
                          on Esplanade (if you don't mention it, do no expect us to just find out :-)).

                          It was in our application, and it was also made doubly clear to "Jake" when he emailed us to inquire more about our camp.

                          I'm still baffled.

                          For a planning committee that says they "redo the city plan every year," it sure seems like a lot of the same camps end up in the same spots, which includes the same general vibe on the Esplanade. We were out to change that, and we stated so in our application. I don't really care if you want the city to be the same year after year, but then don't say the complete opposite in your placement announcement emails.

                          I have to confess, Frog, I have been so upset about this whole mess that I am considering just dumping the project and not attending. I am pretty distressed.
                        • hoo
                          hoo
                          offline 0

                          Re: Theme Camp Placements

                          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:56 PM
                          From the ORIGINAL application form I submitted for Dreamtime:
                          "And wait! There’s MORE!!! JaneEric & Co. will be returning their Playa Air art car to BRC06, and they’re part of Dreamtime. This wonderful monstrosity needs a convenient landing strip. Glorious? Yes, but it isn’t what you’d call agile, so tedious navigation through pedestrian traffic to a home back in the city is not the best idea. Plus, if it’s parked on the playa across from our esplanade camp, it’ll continue to boggle minds 24/7" www.dreamtimers.net/blog/

                          From the clarification requested by Jake of the placement staff:
                          "But is Playa Air agile? Um, no. No one wants any Difficult Situation when the great beast is laboring along some pedestrian-strewn path back to some camp back in the rings. Jane & the Cap’ns will cope wherever they’re put, but safety says keep this baby on the edge of the esplanade. And happily that’s the right answer to the visual question, too, so really your decision is a simple one. "
                          www.dreamtimers.net/blog/

                          Um, what??? WHAT!!??
                          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 11:13 PM

                            Well. This was not communicated properly (internal). Glitches happens when
                            you've got two weeks to map 541 camps. If I was not honest, I would not have
                            bring that up in a public forum.

                            Now, I received this morning an email from the contact person of your camp,
                            telling me that while the spot was not perfect, your camp would adapt. Not asking
                            for a change, nor be specific about the problems.

                            I suggest we take this off-line to see how I can now fix this problem.

                            Frog
                            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 11:37 PM
                              Well Frog,

                              When the head of placement states in a public forum that the placement is "final," the impression given is that one does not ask for change.

                              "Adapt" in this case, at least for me, pretty much means giving up my camp and my project and not attending. That is certainly an adaptation from my original plans. I am guessing that our contact did not mention the specifics of the problems in his email because, as he has quoted above, they were evident in our application, so I'm guessing he assumed you were already aware.

                              I appreciate your responses and the time you've given this matter and I would love to take this privately to discuss what any options available might be. You can message me through tribe or you can email via our camp contact (although he will be out of town this weekend).

                              Thanks.
                            • hoo
                              hoo
                              offline 0

                              Re: Theme Camp Placements

                              Fri, July 28, 2006 - 8:03 AM
                              The adaptations I was considering weren't all completely positive in nature. No need to fight about stuff here, but I saw a misunderstanding that I wanted to correct.

                              I re-sent some info via email. And I appreciate your willingness to look at the full submission and think about it. That attitude is helpful.
                          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                            Fri, July 28, 2006 - 10:17 PM
                            well, there is always asking other camps who are actually on the Esp if they would mind having it parked across from their camp. Maybe in trade for something. Ya never know...
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Theme Camp Placements

                      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:08 AM
                      Hey Frog,
                      What kind of lighting will the avenues have? I'm guessing your talking 3:00, 4:30, 7:30, & 9:00?
                      How far out will the light run, to the plaza?

                      After the dark streets last year, we've discussed lights for our street entrance... but if that will be unnecessary, then that'd be cool.

                      -garimo
                      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:38 PM

                        Those are "just" the traditionnal BRC street lights (like on the Esplanade).

                        No, you will still need to bring your own lights. I agree, avenues were too
                        dark last year. As I mentionned in a previous post, most of the camps on
                        the avenues have generators and, like you, said they were planing on
                        bringing night light.

                        So, crossing my fingers, the avenues should be have lights at night, this year.

                        Frog
                    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:44 AM
                      Hey Frog... will there be fire in the 4:30 plaza? Burn barrels maybe, or will the art piece be a fire sculpture? That would help a lot.
                      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 8:25 AM
                        What happened to me is that the French Guy called me up, told me he couldn't do what we asked. So he moved us out further. We requested the 7:30 side. I was okay with being as far out as needed - on that side. ON any street. He said we were placed.

                        Then the placement comes out and we are on the 3:00 side. It was a bitch fest on my camp's tribe yesterday. We are only coming down now.

                        Oh well. I didn't expect much. I should have expected less.
                        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:05 PM

                          The "French Guy" is me, btw. I do not know what camp you are,

                          Things just did not work out. No space available.

                          What do you suggest I do when there's no space.

                          I said you were placed, and you are.

                          Frog
                          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                            Fri, July 28, 2006 - 8:57 AM
                            To Frog, French Guy, Eric, whatever your name is:

                            My camp is Burntown.

                            On Sunday July 9th, 2006 you called me and left me a message. (I still have it, wanna hear?) I returned your call an hour later and we spoke about the placement of my camp. We discussed various things and you ended the call telling me you were placing us in the 7:30 plaza.

                            My camp made the following requests:

                            1. To be on the 7:30 side of the city (where we have camped for over 5 years)
                            2. To be in an intersection (so our rope bridge can traverse our camp at a 45 degree angle and so we can project movies and images into the street)
                            3. To be away from loud sound camps (we like to sleep at night sometimes)
                            4. To not be place beside the potties (kind of obvious reasoning here)

                            Other notes of interest: We didn’t care how far we were from the Esplanade. We didn’t mind if we were actually on 7:30 — 7:00 or 8:00, was okay too. In fact we were okay with anything – just “no further east than 4:30”.

                            When the list came out the other day we were not in the 7:30 Plaza — not even close.
                            We were at 3:00 and E.

                            1. Wrong side of the city
                            2. Closer to the sound camps than we preferred
                            3. On the same block as the potties last year
                            4. In an intersection? Who can say?

                            While we certainly appreciate what you are doing I don’t mind saying that in our case you failed. Miserably. I know that is bound to happen, but it would have been nice if you had gotten something right for us.

                            What I find upsetting is that if the rumors are true, while in the midst of spending 16 hours a day working on camp placement, you found the time to get in a bus with Chicken John and ride across the United States for 7 days. Now that is commitment.

                            Anyway, we can — and will live with the result. We are not going to raise hell over this. I am only making a simple statement of fact here.

                            On the other hand, if you would accept my request it would warm my heart and I would be more than willing to kick your ass in the Thunderdome on any occasion you are able to meet me there.
                            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                              Fri, July 28, 2006 - 9:34 AM

                              Ok. I remember now.

                              I also remember telling it was not definitive and things could change. And it did. I had
                              to move you, nothing personal, because, at some point in the mapping we had to
                              either cancel almost 100 camps, and get imaginative. In short, how to handle an increase
                              of 30% of theme camps without increasing the space they take by 30%. Shape, size of
                              camps become a major factor, and, well, thanks to your move, several camps were able
                              to make it. And yes, many camps owe you a favor.

                              If you could shrink you camp, I could probably move your camp. Contact me off line if you are
                              interested.

                              Frog (frog@burningman.com)
                            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                              Fri, July 28, 2006 - 10:11 AM

                              You see, making accusation such as "you find the time to go with Chicken John on a bus tour"
                              is not helping: for you information, there are two Frog at Burning Man. You are refering to the
                              other Frog. I have not seen Chicken John for at least 5 years.

                              Frog
                              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                                Fri, July 28, 2006 - 10:56 AM
                                Call it an accusation if you'd like but the email I received listed the French Guy as one of those going on the bus trip with Chicken John. Not anyone named Frog.

                                You said you were the French Guy. Maybe it was a different French Guy. Or maybe you didn't go. No problem.
                      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:40 PM

                        The art pieces (one per plaza) are not fire art.

                        I believe there will be burn barrels too. But this is still a work in progress.

                        Plaza a little bit more night time oriented than the rest of the avenue, so
                        yes, this will be a place to hang out at night, and I agree, burn barrels will
                        be nice.

                        Frog
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:44 AM
    My guess is that the time placements are listed clockwise. We're at 4:00 and Esplanade, expecting that we wrap clockwise to 4:15.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:58 AM
      >We're at 4:00 and Esplanade,

      This would mean you face 4:00, and are closer to Esplanade than to "A". However, there are no camps listed at 4:00 and Esplanade.

      If you are at Esplanade and 4:00, then you face onto the Esplanade, and are closer to 4:00 than to 3:30 or 4:30.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:36 PM
        >>>>>>
        >We're at 4:00 and Esplanade,

        This would mean you face 4:00, and are closer to Esplanade than to "A". However, there are no camps listed at 4:00 and Esplanade.

        If you are at Esplanade and 4:00, then you face onto the Esplanade, and are closer to 4:00 than to 3:30 or 4:30.
        <<<<<<

        We're a big camp - The Illumination Village: Esplanade>4:00>Anxious. Flaming Lotus Girls home base, Neverwas Haul(last year's clocktower gang), Dan Das Mann's group, Dr. and Mrs. Megavolt, Satan's Calliope, etc... 200'x250'x200'

        Re: my clockwise comment, I gather that we go from 4:00 to 4:15 on the Esplanade and Anxious
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 5:31 PM
          >Re: my clockwise comment, I gather that we go from 4:00 to 4:15 on the Esplanade and Anxious

          You could also be on the Esplanade between 3:45 and 4:00. You might not even be on the corner. But since there are no camps listed at 4:00 and Esplanade there is a good chance you are on the corner.
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:32 AM
    Holy suckling Cuthulu! We got better placement than we even dreamed! Esplanade and 5.

    Dusty, I'm sorry hon - that sucks.

    I was at 9:50 and Fetish last year.. That is the boondocks!

    Being this close to Center Camp, I'll probably pick up more shifts at the Cafe this year.
    Walking all the way home at 4am after working my ass off for 4 hours behind the espresso machine sucked bigtime last year.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 12:26 PM
      I was all good with no expectations. I was all prepared to be happy and optimistic no matter where we were placed, but with an entire fucking city at their disposal, did they have to place us in almost the exact same place as last year - you know, the space we complained about? I would've been happy and optimistic with anything different, I even like the 4:30 spoke. But this is the same block, so I know exactly what to expect. I haven't gotten feedback from my camp yet, so I'm hoping they are happy and their optimism will make me feel better. They have a way of doing that to me :-) If they feel the same way I do, I'll propose finding a trade for us, but it's totally not my call. It would have to be the same space though, there's no way we could go smaller. 200x100.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 1:19 PM
        And in the interest of full disclosure, while I maintain that our placement last year at 4:20 and Fetish sucked the back of Cheney's bag, it was also arguably the best year I've ever had on the Playa.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 1:34 PM
        Gessh... I so hate to say where we got.... makes me feel bad for those that got stuck in back... I'm sorry to hear that it sucks for you... I wasn't happy with our space last year but after we got set up it turned out ok... we had great neighobors... and the Flower opened on our street the first night it opened... what a sight...

        see ya all there...

        Bare
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:19 PM
        Dusty you can cancel your theme camp and just grab a space on monday.
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:24 PM
          I talked to my fearless leader. He's happy with our placement, therefore so am I. Well, not really, but I'm a really good faker. I'm proposing a 4:30 block party to get the neighborhood jammin. There are some really great camps in our hood, we just gotta let the peeple know we're back there!

          bm.tribe.net/thread/d0d3...8f9edc5d9c15
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:48 PM

            I will bring drinks to your party. After all, this is also going to
            be my neighborhood.

            Don't worry Dusty, we will make the avenue rock. Look more carefully
            about camps at the 4:30 Plaza...

            Frog (frog@burningman.com)
            BRC Placement
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:35 AM
              Thanks for the feedback and support Frog. I have looked at the camps in the area, and some of them are the same camps that were back there last year. I was back there with them and I saw the dramatic drop in traffic they had. Even though they are awesome fabulous rockin camps, they didn't pull the traffic as hoped, so I see no reason to expect they'd pull people back there this year either. However, that being said, it is what it is, and I know you guys worked hard and want to make this layout work. So I'm having faith sufficient changes have been made so it's not a repeat of last year, and I'll do what I can to liven up the hood too.

              Be on the lookout for the 4:30 Block Party.
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:48 PM

                The main camps at 4:30 Plaza that back in did not ask to be somewhere else.
                In fact, 2 of those asked to be back at the same location.

                The bottom line, Dusty, is that what do you think bring people ?
                Is it the layout of the city ? No.
                Is it the particular location ? No.
                Is it the theme camps ? Yes.

                My point is that if theme camps are so disappointed that they just give up,
                of course, it will not work. But if theme camps try, and shine, the Avenue will
                work, and, they may just become where everyone wants to be.

                You see, there has been similar situation in the past. When the first
                plaza were introduced (3:00 and 9:00), camps placed there were
                complaining. And they were dead. After a few years, they started to
                become what they are now. To the point that they are now in high demand,
                and there are more camps who want Plaza than space there.

                You want light, life, traffic where you're located. So do I. So, put lights,
                be lively, spend time in your camp, so people will start coming by.
                Love your neighborhood, own it.

                This is unchartered territory, and being placed there early in the life
                of the avenues is of course challenging, but, years from now, you might
                be able to see what your personal contribution has been to this part of the
                city.

                You will contribute to define what the avenues are. And I think that's pretty
                cool, don't you think ?

                Frog
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:38 PM
                Dusty, I said where I was camped last year - but I didn't say where I was sucked into time after time last year in my wandering...

                Your neighborhood. I loved that part of the city and now I'm not too far away from you - I'll be back even more. I'll try to play the part of the pied piper and bring people along to meet the in/famous Dusty! ;)

                Seriously, I had to make a concerted effort to wander my own neighborhood. Even then I'd suddenly find I was at 4 and C/D/E or somewhere in that area. I couldn't stay away. The camps back there are amazing and I can't wait to see what all everyone is doing this year!

                I'll come give you lovins and happy-happys.
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:56 PM
                  Yippee! woo woo! You just made me so happy! Please come say hi... my campmates are the most wonderful people and friends I could ever wish for. I'm so glad we're on your radar screen!

                  My new motto...

                  Poke a Spoke.

                  Friends are waiting :-)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Fri, July 28, 2006 - 10:34 PM
                    Yay! Kewl! and you know you're always welcome at Divination Nation.

                    I'll try to grab as many of my campmates as possible one day and have us all go hunting for you and your camp. If we make a game out of it, we can try to get random people to join the hunt and we can invade! Mwahahahaha! *teehee!*

                    Anyone want to make Tuesday - Hunt a Theme Camp Day with me? Try hunting down a few of the big camps stuck out in the boonies - get to know them, bring them gifts...then spread the word of the treasures we found! We can dress as pirates! Woohoo! Booty!
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 2:17 PM
    I'm sorry for all the people who got placed in spots they didn't want, but I can hardly control my joy, we got placed exactly where we wanted at 9:00 and Brave. YAY!
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 2:45 PM
    Iron Rose is THRILLED with A/4:30.
    We Looooooove 4:30!
    and this year:
    We get We Are That Pig as tasty-bacon-frying neighbors!!
    Get that frypan HOT, Hans!

    (Sorry Dusty. It was pretty dead on C and 4:40 last year too. I can only imagine E or F.)

    I wonder if placement tends to put larger camps more toward the outer rings. We were offered an Espl spot if we could trim down to a quite-trim size, but we decided we liked being voluptuous. Maybe tiny camps are just easier to place in the little spots up close.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 2:55 PM
      Okay, Love Love Love our placement at 7:00 and Chance.

      However, again... anyone know how large those village blocks are? I'm pretty sure that from A-B-C is 250' but what about between 6:30-7:00?

      I'm trying to figure out camp orientation and its a bit tough not knowing how big the entire block is. Help would be appreciated!
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:02 PM
      Can you land grab if you get there on Saturday or will they make you go back to your assigned area? I mean land grab a non-theme camp space, not an assigned space. How hard would it be to grab a 200x100 space? Will they let you bring and set up your own orange tape?

      The more I think about it, the more upset I get.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:07 PM

        Landgrabbing.. I think if you are mapped and you don't take the spot you are mapped that is a no no..

        You can do it.. but you might want to change your camp name.

        come to think of it i think i saw a few signs around in the from camps who decided to take a different spot to where they were mapped.

        maybe it's not that big a deal.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:14 PM
        Officially, they'll rip your camp out by the roots if it's anywhere it's not supposed to be - before event opens to the general public.
        They say they'll be vigilant about it this year.

        However, there were definitely folks camping on not-theme corners well before event opened last year. Probably folks who're volunteering all that early week. They were noticably smaller than 100x200!

        (and broadcasting intentions in a public forum probably won't help keep you under the radar...)
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:52 PM

          This is the "darker" side of the placement team. We did actually move camps last year.
          And we will do it again (and more) this year. We place people who are in BRC early,
          and we make sure that theme camps are were they are supposed to be. Of course,
          there is on-playa change, arrangements, etc. But this is always by working things out
          with the Placement team.

          Heidi is correct: the spots were noticably smaller than 100x200... intentionnaly.

          And.. well.. the placement team is quite good finding people. Many, many years of training.

          Frog
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Fri, July 28, 2006 - 4:55 PM
          ok for all camps already given land... How about some of us that were not placed in a theme camp area? Are the camps that were rejected still able to show up sat or sun and find a place in a non-theme camp area? Will we be removed from the early arival list? Will we just have to stay mobile and wait to set up till monday? We had plans for events monday that no one will be able to find. Glad I didnt get anything published in the What nowhere when.

          yeah I am kinda pissed. I was not contacted about anything... given a chance to trim down our size... nothing. I filled out my app just like anyone. I drew up maps and got all my peeps in line for creating a clean earth friendly camp. Everything I had the last two years I was a theme camp with a whole lot less. I figured more was better. Maybe I didnt have enough blinky lights.

          Well thanks for all your hard work. Im sure it wasnt easy. I hope and fear the day I get to the playa. Is this all part of the theme?
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Fri, July 28, 2006 - 5:54 PM

            We sent emails to all the camps which were not placed.
            Of course, we get a lot of email errors, including anti-spam
            filters, invalid addresses, etc. Perhaps you have not received
            that email. The "no placement" email was sent last Sunday.
            Precisely to give people a chance to react. About 3 camps
            were placed after that email was sent.

            No, you will have to wait until Monday 28th to enter the city.

            The placement team works hard to make sure that the city
            will not be flagged out when you enter (and this process does
            not make us have more friends :-)). We are actually pretty good
            at that process.

            Frog
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:51 PM

        Unfortunately, there is no land grabbing before Monday 8/28th 0:01 AM.

        We will not miss a 200x100 land grabbing, so, I'd say, pretty difficult.

        And this is why
        as someone as suggested, you can cancel your camp, and get land on Monday,
        and you will find the space of your dream.

        Frog (frog@burningman.com)
        BRC Placement
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:03 PM


      we got 4:30 & Guess with a 100' x 100' camp.
      so not all the outer ring camps are big.

      I'm not entirely thrilled with it but super stoked we are on the map this year.
      5 years and I've never been that far out before.

      but i plan to make the best camp possible on our assigned location and hope to make what connections we can to bring us closer to esplanade for next year.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:10 PM
        dusty.. whos in charge of your camp.... find out who your placer is.... talk to them.... and see if they can work with ya on a site that makes ya feel better.... it's not a guarentee but it's worth a try...

        But, DONT abandon your registered camp space.. that really messes up the system.... communicate with them about it... they are not Hard core.. and if they have it to change it.. they most likely will consider that.....

        ask em....

        Bare
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:21 PM
          I emailed our camp manager. I'll see what he says. Another option is we get a burn barrel for our camp - I hope it's not too late. That would help, if there's some fire in the plaza.

          Maybe we need to get all the fire spinners in Beta sector together (that's what they call us, Beta sector) and have a Fire Spin Jam one night? Hell, anything to let the rest of BRC know we're back there.
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:34 PM

          Is there a map online anywhere showing the theme camp areas as shaded or anything?
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 3:40 PM
            Robin the very first post on this thread has the city map attached......

            Bare
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:11 PM

              wicked! i guess i was so excited about the placement i didn't read past that. ;-)

              thanks!
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:36 PM
                what's up with the sector's? they are not on the map
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:51 PM
                  sectors are the divisions for the placement folks your lead campers will talk to upon arriving. as i understand it, there's one team per sector to get everyone properly located. its an administrative construct, which is why there's not a public map for it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:53 PM

                    Almost true: there is a team of placers, one per sector. We have 16 hours shift per day :-)
                    7/7. (and yes, we're volunteers)

                    Frog (frog@burningman.com)
                    BRC Placement
                    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:04 AM
                      My Gawd Frog,,,, I had no idea ya all worked that Long.... Geesh, no wonder when I see ya ya look exhausted.... what is your desire Sir... shall I bring Coffee and Croissants,

                      bare
                      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:51 PM
                        Oh hell yeah! I'm right with you there Bare...these guys work hard for us, even when we aren't happy - they are having to balance tons of opinions, beggings, pleadings, commands...they call the placement room the War Zone for a reason.

                        I expected us to not get placed at all, I was beyond myself with joy when I saw we were placed and about fainted when I saw where. (Divination Nation Esp and 5)

                        Now that I know they work so many hours on playa too - what do you guys like the most, Frog?
                        Name it and we will bring some to you as well.
                        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                          Fri, July 28, 2006 - 9:44 AM

                          I know that will sound lame. But perhaps I am lame :-)

                          What I would really like ? To see the avenues shine this year. That is really what I want.

                          Because, the bottom line is that, esplanade, avenues, back blocks, etc, are just a flat expense
                          of playa before you guys arrive. So, it is slightly surreal to say that this is cool space, and this
                          is not cool.

                          The space is what you do of it, and all of those changes, on the long run, is to make most of BRC
                          "prime real estate", instead of a limited space reserved for the ellit.

                          Thanks for the encouragement. They matter.

                          Frog
                          • Avenues Parade

                            Fri, July 28, 2006 - 3:27 PM
                            i say we gather a group of people and organize an avenue hopping party. (kind of like a bar-hopping party) and hop from cool camp to cool camp through the avenues and the spokes. maybe the group will grow larger as we hit each camp.

                            in fact. fuck it.

                            i'll just start it. whoever wants to join can join!

                            let's say, wednesday night or somethin... i'll start at the 9:00 plaza and work my way around! (or perhaps i'll end at 9:00... haven't decided yet.)
                            • Re: Avenues Parade

                              Fri, July 28, 2006 - 3:44 PM
                              There must be a reason they call you ProphecyBoy. It's already underway, my friend!

                              It's the Drunken Miners Bar Crawl. We crawl the backstreets Wednesday night looking for little bars and camps, descend, get another drink and head off again! One art car's hauling folks, but we could really use more artcars participating! (with designated drivers, of course!)

                              Check it out!
                              www.burningman.com/calendar...entry.php

                              Start your own and try to run into us, or join us in our own traveling debauch!
                              (any small backstreet addresses we should aim for? Speak up!)
                              • Re: Avenues Parade

                                Fri, July 28, 2006 - 4:09 PM
                                that sounds fantastic! perhaps i will join you!

                                i'm not sure which backstreet addresses to add, this was just in response to those lovely theme camps who are concerned with not generating/getting traffic. so i wanted to help provide traffic!

                                perhaps i can start one on another night. but wednesday for sure!

                                woo hoo! i am getting excited again about the playa! i was a bit nervous i'd feel lonely out at 9 & eager... but now i think i'm going to have a GRAND time!
                          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                            Fri, July 28, 2006 - 10:43 PM
                            My camp was lagging on being gungho about our frontage until the placement list was posted.

                            Wooboy did that ever light a fire under everyone's butts! I think we're having to get another source of transport just for lights, frontage and carpeting!

                            Am I the only one nervous about being bright enough and cool enough? Our placement may have made us giddy, but it's giving me a heart attack trying to make the camp worthy of such a spot. Holy cow...I hope that didn't sound bad. I'm just a nervous wreck right now trying to get everything done in time.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:54 PM
      gotta love the hood!!! we're on the 3:00 plaza, and next to just almost EVERY camp we love!! nice n close to you guys, too! rock.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:02 AM
        Oh, exCUSE me, Josie... I doan THINK so!

        You obviously left out MY camp 'cause we're over on 4:30, not 3, eh?
        *sniff*
        ...girl's gonna have to do some visitin' this year on-playa!
        Iron Rose, girl. Whatchoo thinkin'?!!

        ...oh, right. *almost* every camp you love...
        Okay.
        You're still gonna have to come over!
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:56 PM
    this is horrible! we were trying to get all the gay camps to be close together this year and they completely seperated us! argh!
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:57 PM
      So does that mean I might have gay neighbors? Oh the horror! What is this city coming to? What about my property value? Think it'll go up?

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

      Truly, I feel for you. I understand your frustration.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:59 PM
        it is pretty frustrating. i mean any kind of configuration would have been fine. just on the same block would have been brilliant. but no...
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:27 PM
          Most of the queer camps got put togethor at 4:30 and Destiny. Unfortunately Comfort and Joy got put off at 7:30 and E. We're trying to work it out though... and Jiffy lube is way out at 9 o'clock on the opposite side of the city. I suppose that at least means none of us gayboys have to worry about our friends seeing us leave those infamous camo tents. :-)

          I honestly don't mind the idea of a stroll late at night to Comfort and Joy. What could be more relaxing than a nice walk from 4:30 to 7:30?
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 8:33 PM
            it's good to know comfort and joy is closer than the 4:30 camps!

            i was sad because i'm camping with jiffylube this year and i got stuck way out at 9:00... at least i can stop by comfort & joy and meet people on my way to the 4:30 camps/avalon, on my way up to my friends at 3:00 plaza...
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:01 PM
            it's more the people who will never hear about comfort and joy. or rather all the people that would have come to the big four corners block party the big gay camps were going to throw. and all the ass we would have gotten as organizers.

            all in all its a tragedy.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Wed, July 26, 2006 - 4:58 PM
      Dammit!
      They placed the runway sideways!
      It's gonna get ugly at the Airport this year...
      Ohh, the humanity!
      KK
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Wed, July 26, 2006 - 6:25 PM
        hahhaaha gonna make take offs and landings a joy to watch.... LOL!!!

        Bare
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Wed, July 26, 2006 - 6:37 PM
          It's not funny, Bare...
          The Freaking runway is SIDEWAYS!
          Fuck!!
          Okay...everybody in the pattern. Do a downwind dogleg and shoot for the Taxi way.
          Unicom 128.9, land short and hit the brakes.
          Dammit!
          KK
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Wed, July 26, 2006 - 9:43 PM
            I am sure if you go to them with the saftey reasons as to why this is a bad idea and a danger to the community they will change it. After all they really don't want a mess either
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:19 PM

              A big part of placement probably has to do with when you submit your application.

              I doubt they wait till the deadline to start figuring out the map.

              If you wait till the last few days there are likely much less spots to choose from

              Not sure if that is the story with anyone here unhappy with their placement.

              But next year I'm going to get my application in as early as they will accept it and see what kind of difference that makes.
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Wed, July 26, 2006 - 11:02 PM
                What is truly lame is when they call you and they talk to you about placing you elsewhere from where you requested, you agree on something that seems okay and then they move you to the entire opposite side of the city exactly where you requested not to be in the first place.

                How is that for a fucked up sentence?
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Thu, July 27, 2006 - 4:02 PM

                It is actually the opposite: we do wait until the deadline before figuring out the map.
                The reason is to be fair to anyone, and not start having a "vision" of the map before
                every questionnaire is read several times.

                The mapping process takes about 15 days, non stop.

                Now, what happens, is that about 50% of the questionnaire we receive (about 600
                this year), are incomplete. No map, nothing to really help us figuring out what is the
                camp. We call people, send them email, etc, which add days before we can place those
                camps. But we keep on placing the camps that have complete questionnaires, and yes,
                free space get smaller and smaller, and eventually, there is not a lot of choices left.

                This is actually what happened to some of the people who are complaining on this thread
                about their placement (not all).

                What really matters is:

                - don't send your questionnaire about the deadline.
                - do fill up properly your questionnaire. DO NOT FORGET YOUR MAP. we cannot do
                anything without it.
                - if we contact you during mapping, please be responsive.
                - realize that you should ask for everything you want, but you may not get it.
                - don't forget your camp is unique, amazing... but there is 540 other camps to map...

                Frog
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:12 AM
      <this is horrible! we were trying to get all the gay camps to be close together this year and they completely seperated us! argh!>
      Yikes! You're not ghettoized!
      Okay, I understand you're upset. I can see wanting to be a "destination" but in my sf queer lite sort of way, I sorta think that burningman is one place where this shouldn't couldn't wouldn't happen.
      Have you tried being a village? Would that help?
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:04 PM
        there are other reasons for wanting to create a space for yourself than homophobia. homophobia is not the only thing that makes it hard to be gay. i haven't had to deal with obvious homophobia in years, it's not really a part of my life. the main thing is being such a minority. and one really really feels that at burning man with the very aggressive heterosexuality everywhere. also, the signals that we use to create a feeling of communal identity and to create spaces for ourselves become lost in the noise at burning man and we become subsumed into the mass. which is great from the point of view of feeling a part of something. but the fact is that we are not really the same. we cannot participate in the sexual energy that flows through burning man in the same way that straight or bisexual do. one feels rather left out and not really a part of the energy. a "ghetto" would be a place where gay people could participate in that energy. there is a village, avalon synapse station. what we were trying to do was take avalon and the other gay camps and put them relatively near one another so that we could create communal events and a queer space where we can fully participate in what burning man has to offer. it sucks that bmorg hasn't respected the needs of such an important (imho) part of the community. i imagine bmorg shares the typical straight perspective of not understanding why we should have to seperate ourselves at burning man. they want to keep everything together and so dissolve us into the general population. but that's alright. we'll create whatever spaces we can and have a great burn as always.


        "Okay, I understand you're upset. I can see wanting to be a "destination" but in my sf queer lite sort of way, I sorta think that burningman is one place where this shouldn't couldn't wouldn't happen.
        Have you tried being a village? Would that help?"
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:16 PM
          For whatever it's worth, a lot of hetero's don't feel a part of that sexual energy either, yet we sit amidst neighborhoods with Goddess worship camps. And what about the people who are Bi... where are 'their people'? Or maybe we could zone techno and rock-n-roll, cuz sometimes I have to travel to the other side of the city to find camps where I feel I fit in.

          I'm sensitive to your plight, I really am. And I can't walk in your shoes and say I know how you feel, because I don't. But at the same time, I don't want to see all of BRC 'zoned' to satisfy any select group of people. Children, I understand. That's different... I hope I don't have to explain why I think it's different. And I can understand quiet zones, because we have people that need it for health and sanity reasons. And of course, there's the center camp infrastructure. But beyond that, I like that our energy all mingles together. I like that I'm challenged to spend time interracting with and sifting through the multitudes of people who are so different than me. And at the same time, who are the same as me.

          If you feel that strongly about it, I think the suggestion of forming a village is a good one.
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:52 PM
            that's a good point dusty. and it is just one part of burning man and not a necessary one. it's just annoying because of expectations and hopes for a paticular experience and finding out you won't have it. but expectations suck for burning many anyways so it's all good.
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:16 PM
          Understood matthew. I'd suggest merging as many as possible into a super village and then even if the others are split off, you'll have part of what you're looking for.

          (yes, I am one of those twits who occasionally want to bop necking straight couples in the Castro on the head.)
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:28 PM
            well we also wanted to maintain our seperate camp identities and the seperate experiences that we create for ourselves. the annoying thing is that all the other camps in the group are still close to one another and only our camp is halfway across the playa.
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:43 PM
              What are you people talking about...
              My Runway is Freaking Sideways!
              How the hell are the planes in the pattern supposed to land. My God, Peeps...
              There are planes falling out of the sky and nowhere to land them!!
              At least they got the parking ramp right. Now if only we can get those aircraft down safely!
              KK
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:52 PM
                //My Runway is Freaking Sideways! //

                this really reads as a joke. did i miss the link to the map that includes the airport, or something?
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:05 PM
                  have you met KK in person? Heheheheh...

                  If you haven't, go out to the airport and say hi - all will be revealed within 5 minutes of meeting the man in the flesh.

                  Love ya, KK! You focker you!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Thu, July 27, 2006 - 6:11 PM
                    I would miss you IVY, I haven't seen you or drank tequila with you at sunrise in forever!!!!
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 4:06 PM

          About 15% of the theme camps questionnaire this year do mention they are gay oriented
          and ask for a specific location. I did respect that desire, but I just ran out of space.

          Please look at the map, camps location, and you will realize what I am talking about.

          Saying that we have not respected the gay community is just plain erronous. Please
          go talk to Deep End, Jiffy, and ask what they think about the Placement team, before you
          make this kind of comments.

          Frog
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Wed, July 26, 2006 - 10:36 PM
    Sorry to hear some people didn't get the placement they hoped for... I was out in the boonies last year (7:30 and Gestalt/Hysteria) and though it was quiet out there especially at night, it wasn't impossible to get around and I had a great burn!

    This year, The Sprawl is absolutely THRILLED with our placement at 7:30 and Destiny!! Come visit our Sunscreen Station every morning for a little sunblock slathering, and a healthy dose of lemonade and cookies. Just the way to start your day, especially if you're camping on the 7:30 spoke!

    -Spatch
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 9:28 AM
      Can anyone speak with any authority about where the porta potties will be located this year? usually athey are every time street (e.g. 3:00, 3:30, 4:00, etc.) and the D street.
      we ask, because we are one of the rare camps that actually is facing the 5:00 street, which - in theory - could mean they expect our camp to face across the street from the porta potties?
      I know someone has to be near them...and we'll graciously accept our assignment if that's the case.

      I'm sure our placer will have more information, but obviously, it has impact on how we think about orienting our camp!
      I know I've seen maps with them placed in year's past, so I assume one exists for 06.

      and, interestingly, we have 20 more people than we did last year, but they gave us 20% less space. it's all good, we'll make due and have a great year. denisty isn't necessarily a bad thing.

      thanks!

      harley of hippocampus
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 9:44 AM
        Aren't they usually on every hourly street... not the half hours... so 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 and between D and E streets?
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:10 AM
          >>Aren't they usually on every hourly street... not the half hours... so 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 and between D and E streets?


          Oh.no.

          If that's true, we're gonna be sniffing porto's all week long. blech.


          (Last year there was a bank between F and G)
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 10:24 AM
            I'm looking at last years map... www.studioninedesign.com/BManM...ex.htm

            Here's what I see. Potties on each time spoke... hour and half hour... between D and E streets, closer to D, except 4:30 and 7:30 and 6:00.

            The 4:30 and 7:30 potties are between G and H, closer to G.

            The 6:00 potties are between F and G.

            And the ones at 2:00 and 10:00 are off the street onto the playa, between B and C.

            Who's to say they'll be exactly the same this year, but I bet it won't change much.
  • Re: Theme Camp Placements

    Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:13 PM
    <vent>

    trying not to be a negative nancy but dang du i hate that spoke thing SO MUCH. i dont want to be drawn into the city more, i spend all my time open playa. 2 of my events are happening at a village thats far back on one of the spokes, really i dont think i would go back there otherwise - rope lights or no.

    i fear the spokes are here to stay, i know you cant please everyone, but i just had to say - somewhere - that damn i hate those things!

    </vent>
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:28 PM
      Just curious , everyone who hates the spokes, how would you do it if you had a say ?

      PS my camp "Nexus" applied for the 10:00 and Esplanade but got 10:00 and Brave
      exactly where we were last year. So come by for a dance or ? !!!
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:37 PM
        I would make something completely different. Something different that the whole horseshoe effect. There is no real reason BRC needs to be the shape it is.
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:43 PM
          I like it. It creates centers of activity, as well as "residential" areas. It reasonably separates big noise from the neighborhoods where most folks will be trying to sleep. It allows open space "within" the city for art and artcar traffic. It puts the Man center, as a landmark and focal point.
          I'm not sure why folks hate the spokes.

          It's certainy better than a grid would be, IMHO.
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 1:09 PM
            //I'm not sure why folks hate the spokes. //

            a few reasons, mainly because - as mentioned - i spend all my time open playa, and like 5 -6 streets back is super far, and in the (for me) 'wrong' direction. like a moth walking away from the flame! also theres something very depressign to me abotu the more residential areas. i havent figured out what it is yet.

            again, i know soem peopel like it for the reasons you mention... i just happen to not be one of them!

            the horse shoe shape doesnt bother me, but the spokes do in their attempt to draw me into the city, and away from where i love love love to be - near the LARGE art, the sky, the landscape sans tent ghetto... ahhhhhhhhh so nice!
          • The design of the city is quite beautiful in its elegance and evolutionary trajectory. Perhaps the area of active membrane, the Esplanade, could be doubled by simply vacating the blue-shaded ziggarat spokes at 3:00 and 9:00 and leaving open playa, in effect folding the visual spaciousness of the inner playa into the body of the city.
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 12:46 PM
          <There is no real reason BRC needs to be the shape it is. >

          My guess is that it's for the visuals of the inner playa with the man in the middle of it. I don't think that having the man in one part of hte playa and the city somewhere else would work. I also think that you have to have a large space (although maybe not as large) to accomadate teh burns and other art works. So unless you start going square (tick tack toe board with corner and center not populated?) the "horseshoe" or at least a circle is almost inevitable.
          But that's my thoughts.
    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 2:00 PM
      er...so don't spend time in the spokes - stay in the open Playa. Why complain about options that you can choose or not choose?

      And for the record - I've found some way cool stuff tucked away back in the spokes. Smaller, less flashy but just as fun/creative/freindly as anything on the Esplanade/Open Playa.

      The spokes are just more to explore...if you want to.
      • Re: Theme Camp Placements

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 2:20 PM
        um, if they stick your camp back there you ahve to go back there. also if you organize events like i do, and they put the village that hosts the events in the spokes, you have to go back there. and since they release the camp locations after the who what where deadline, one cant really change things after that.

        do you take issue with me stating my opinion or something?

        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:04 PM
          I have no problem with you stating your opinion, Stacycat. I guess I just get tired of people complaining about things - epsecially as stridently as "i hate that spoke thing SO MUCH".
          Every camp can't be placed on the Esplanade/center of the city. Unless you want the city to be just one HUGE ring with everything getting main drag placement. Would that be more convenient? I don't think so.

          BRC is one of the most amazing places on the planet - it's full of wonders and incredible people and amazing adventures and experiences. Of course its not perfect and you can't please everyone all the time, but I do get rather annoyed when people complain about stuff. Especially when they offer no viable alternative.

          Why focus on what you don't like when there's so much to LOVE!?!?
          • Re: Theme Camp Placements

            Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:20 PM
            if you are tired of the 'commplaints' i suggest not reading forums, where oppinions are expressed, or perhaps only reading the positive posts and not giving the negative ones your energy.

            i have a very clear understanding of the urban planning that is involved in creating BRC. my first year, there were no streets at all, so ive been through a few variations of the plan since then. i camped with a now former theme camp placement staff member for about 5 years. some variations work better than others, in my opinion. this cvariation displeases me. its hardly a 'focus'. it was simply a post.
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:23 PM
              The Spokes suck, at least with the 4:30 Spoke last year. I think half a dozen people came by out theme camp. I thought the Spoke idea didn't do very well last year, but they brought it back again. Good thing we had a little scooter with us so we could get ice daily. Ridiong the bike over to Camp Artica was a bit far.
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:25 PM
              as for a viable alternative, i have not studied the art of urban planning... but did i miss a message somewhere as to what the problem was with having themecamps be the 1st, 2nd, (and if still too many) 3rd streets back all the way around the horse shoe, as was done pre 2005, instead of esplanade plus the spokes that goe 6 or so streets back?
              • M
                M
                offline 36

                Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:50 PM
                By 2004 all the action was on the esplanade and the 2nd and 3rd streets were ghost towns. I wasn't there last year so I don't really have an opinion about the spokes but what they were doing before wasn't working.
            • Re: Theme Camp Placements

              Thu, July 27, 2006 - 11:46 PM
              Sorry I got a little pissy at you earlier, Stacycat. I jumped the gun and thought you were just whining about something that was inconveniencing you, but it sounds like you've given some thought to the matter and have valid reasons for feeling that way.

              I hope you can make peace with the spokes as long as we've got'em.
              :)
              • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                Fri, July 28, 2006 - 12:19 PM
                no harm done, christina! have a good year on the playa :)
                • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                  Fri, July 28, 2006 - 12:40 PM
                  BIg ups to Frog and the placement team for tackling the impossible: trying to please the largest number of people with a limited amount of space to do it in. I appreciate how hard it must be to do this task at this volume. Wow!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Fri, July 28, 2006 - 1:46 PM
                    while i dont agree with everythig, you all work super hard and i always have mad respect for that!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Theme Camp Placements

                    Fri, July 28, 2006 - 4:17 PM
                    Tony - I'm not entirely sure, but I think there's more than one french guy running around out there. I know of a few offhand, however none of them are involved with the placement teams. ;-)

                    Andie - well said. Over 500 camps to place in a couple weeks' time can't be easy. I really appreciate that someone's taking the time to try and respond to people here.

                    ~Trilo~
                    • Re: Theme Camp Placements

                      Fri, July 28, 2006 - 4:19 PM
                      i think it's rad that people from the org are responding on tribe. if anything, i've never felt more connected to the decisions being made with BM if it wasn't for ongoing discussions being held here. for what it's worth.

                      serious kudos to both of you. (andie and frog)
        • Re: Theme Camp Placements

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 3:44 PM
          You have a good point about the What When Where guide. Where camps are placed can have a dramatic effect on their planned activities. Maybe they need to extend the WWW deadline until after placement is announced.
  • Acknowledgements to the mapping team

    Thu, July 27, 2006 - 4:38 PM
    Ok so I have done mapping for the Nuclear Family Theme camp for 4 years now. I just want to acknowledge the BRC camping team for all their hard work... mapping is a thankless job. Even in a theme camp of 100-200 people it is a nightmare to give everyone what they want and still have a cohesive... anything.

    So thank you.

    the Team has been really nice to me when I called and emailed to inform them of the integration of NucFam with DMT and PlayaVideo into the now ridiculous theme camp "the LAB"

    We could also not be happier to be on the corner of esplanade and 3:30.

    Thank you again mapping team... you are all dreamy
    • Re: Acknowledgements to the mapping team

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:00 PM
      i havent interacted witht he mapping team directly in a few years, they were pretty col then, and it certainly is nice of frog to come onto tribe and answer peoples questions during this busy time!
      • Re: Acknowledgements to the mapping team

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:15 PM

        big props to frog and the mapping team for all their hard work!

        I'm now stoked about trying the spokes this year!
        It will be interesting being that far out but the plaza is something new.

        I've looked through our neighbours and looks like a good time to me!

        see y'all out there!
      • Re: Acknowledgements to the mapping team

        Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:59 PM

        Thanks. This is probably the first smile on my face today. I imagine I know the placer
        you have been camping to, since I have been a placer since 1998.

        I know that it is impossible to satisfy everybody, and that, well, this is all about experimenting.

        And yes we make mistakes.

        All I can say is that we are doing our best. After all, I can tell you it is always nicer to interact
        with happy people than angry people. So, it would make my life easier if everyone could get
        what they want.

        I also strongly believe that since I am responsible (among the rest of the team) for the map,
        I need to face the unhappy people myself and directly.

        Frog
        • Re: Acknowledgements to the mapping team

          Thu, July 27, 2006 - 11:16 PM
          Hey Frog,

          I'm sorry for giving you such a hard time. I really am. I know you work your ass off, and I know you and the team are doing everything you do with the best interests of all at heart. You've got a lot to contend with. We've got a lot of people, myself included, that just want to be heard and I trust you've heard us. The voice of discontent is a good thing, it helps us grow, and we're growing. I also want to say publicly that the opinions I have expressed here are my own, and not those of may campmates. Overall, my camp is happy with our placement, and their optimism and creativity brings me solace. I have the best campmates I could ever hope for.

          Thank you Frog for taking the time to come here and talk to us and help us understand some of the reasoning behind why things are the way they are. We may not agree on all points, but you win major props for sharing your mindset and letting us vent and working through this with us. In the end, as always, it's going to be a great burn. And we'll make it work... because we love Black Rock City. If we didn't, we wouldn't all be here.

          Poke a Spoke.

          And if you get the chance, Poke Frog too... I hear he kinda likes that :-)

          xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
          Dusty
    • Re: Acknowledgements to the mapping team

      Thu, July 27, 2006 - 5:20 PM
      shaman... no kidding. I have been our Themecamp mapper 7 years and it's really difficult to give everyone exactly what they want.... our camp isn't as large as yours but we do still have to try and fit everyone with their rigs and tents as well as all the structural stuff along with vehicles into a space smaller than we'd like.... many years we have had a satellite camp for the overflow....

      but, we have a sayin... the difference between Adventure and Ordeal is Attitude.....

      somehow it all works and we most usually have a kick ass camp and for the most part everyone is or gets happy,.....

      Thanks Frog.... the insight is invaluable...

      Bare
      BurningTribe and Arctica