>there are a lot of communities that attend burning man<

that's the best point, otherwise folks get confused and start thinking what they see as being the BM community as the community...

And this whole nebulous idea of "community?" Dude, it ain't nothing but vapor. The definition, like the event itself, is constantly changing. Right up there with bragging about the leave-no-trace nature of the event. Calling it or defining it as something does not necessarily make it so.

I sincerely believe there was a time when there was a communal collaboration - a synergy - that existed in putting the event together and sustaining it. Fact is though, the event has gotten too big, too popular and too..... lumbering for it to ever return to what it once was. That change is a consequence of substituting quantity for quality although I don't want to suggest that that's the crux of the problem. The event is going through a continual metamorphosis. But that's the nature of change.

It never was static and never will be. I think that's a hard reality for some people to grasp especially for those who hold onto the romantic notions of what BM has been in the past.

>>>Just because someone likes the BM scene, doesn't mean they are righteous. <<<


Or just to put it another way, "Just because someone likes the BM scene, doesnt mean they are a Burner".

Thats the first thing that popped into my mind when I read Rob's statement. I think there are those who like the "scene" that have ulterior motives. Someone who believes they can use it to prey on other people. Whether it means in a physical sense at the burn, or in a non-physical sense here on Tribe, or even Eplaya. Here in Detroit others ostracized a "Burner" who was allegedly preying upon and sexually/physically assaulting female Burners. I believe we as a community we have to look out for each other. Are Burners counter-culture? Avant Garde? Fringe members of society? Cookoo for Cocoa Puffs? I believe a little of each, with some tolerance, understanding, and appreciation for other, different peeps thrown in for good measure. We need to look out for each other, but at the same time, reach out to others. KK would understand this. In the Air Force we had a what was called a mission. What is our mission? What should our mission be? I think first and foremost, it should be to protect ourselves, our community, our family, and our friends. Why do we have Rangers? I think to help do just that. Maybe we need more Rangers at the event. Maybe we need to make a more conscious effort to watch out over our brothers and sisters. And our children. They are what BM will become. We need to educate non-Burners what BM is all about, what we stand for. Many of our philosophies co-exist in other communities. LNT for exp. Had that drilled into me in the scouts. Even in the Force, we had FOD walks, Navy vets will know what I'm talking about. No diff. then de-mooping. We are not that different then other people, yet so we are. A gifting community? I try to explain that to non-burners and they just stare at me. Spending a week or more on a hot dry lake bed being self-sufficient and they think I'm nuts. But then again I have been known to snowshoe into northern Michigan in February and build a shelter to stay in for the duration. Go figure.
So what is our mission? Self-policing? Education? Tolerance? Ostracizing? You tell me.

how ironic. the person who used and abused and spat upon his "friends" is upset someone lese used and abused someone else.

tribe is where its at!
facebook just tries to piss me off

that's right. i think a lot of people very involved with particular scenes within the larger BM scene can become so engrossed in it that they assume everyone is sharing in it. and we're not. many many many of the people that you see out there, that you get a rush of oxytocin seeing and being with and give them a hug etc. are quite separate from you socially, mentally, emotional etc.

though i don't think the whole "it's an illusion" thing about the community should be particularly deflationary. all "communities" bigger than a few dozen people that you see quite regularly and know quite well are imaginary in a sense. the "gay community" is a similar example.

benedict anderson wrote a book about it on a national scale, but i think it applies to burning man sized groups of people too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imag...ommunities



"Like others have said, BM is a HUGE community of communities, not just one community...perhaps it's time for you to move on to new and different people."

"The experiment in Community is partially predicated on tolerance (acceptance) and radical inclusion."

Yes, and THIS YEAR Paul Addis returned to the event. No joke.

Just gotta keep being the change I wish to see.....Ghandi style. Instead of getting fed up or joining in on the apathy, be an example of how to be a more conscious participant. Stand above observation....

"all you have to do to be considered a "burner" is to go to Burning Man."

I would contest that, Tubbo. I have met many people at Burning Man who I would not consider to be Burners. My concep of a Burner includes some investment in the principles that should be part of this community. (Drink!) I had an experience on the way home, however, that makes me wonder just how many of us have truly internalized those principles.

I was driving on 80 East, headed for Philly, on Wednesday afternoon. I stopped at a rest stop in Wyoming. Coming out of the rest room, I say a very tired looking woman holding a sign that said "Laramie". It was only about 180 miles away, and I had an empty seat in the truck, so I gave her a ride. I asked her how long she had been waiting for a ride, and she said "Two days".

How many "Burners" had taken that road East since Monday? Sure, many if not most of them had packed-jammed vehicles with no room to spare. But surely not all. How many "Burners" could have helped this woman, but chose not to? Does our community (Drink!) and its values end at the 9-mile gate?

Maybe I'm asking too much. True, Burners are no better by definition than anyone else. But if we aren't trying to be at least better people than we were when we drove onto the playa, then this really is just a big party in the desert.

Damn, Anne....you know how to harsh a buzz............

+1


"I think we overamplify what we expect out of this "community". It's a shared interest, not a fucking cult. "

"I wanted to take leave, fly home, and punch some noses/kick some balls. I can't"

small brain, big muscles huh?

"Tolerance V Community
Thats always been a tough one for me."

go back to the gym, philosophy is too hard

> "You mean, she CHOSE to leave Tribe.net in response to the behavior of others, perhaps?"

- stalking
- contacting thier employer attempting to damage the ability to care for themself and children
- contacting friends and family to isolate them from support
- threats....

not much of a choice, sounds like a healthy survival decision to me.

*remembers not ta stand near Diode at the burn*

:P

Over 50,000 people attended BM in 2008. Not my gig. I much preferred the 'old' school BM, but as Badger pointed out, it's not a static event or group. I agree it's far too large to expect any sense of communal agreements on behavior or mind set. Small communes in the 60's didn't make it for a reason. Over 50,000 people? No way.

I experience BM as a large party these days. Some spend a lot of time and effort preparing and contributing, and others could give a shit if their neighbors were dying of thirst or heat stroke. With that many people, with radically differing interests or agendas, you're going to get some assholes. It's too bad, but why run away from Tribe in general or quit, if you have something positive to offer? If you're not interested, then just sign off and let it go. Beats taking the position that a few jerks out of thousands and thousands negatively define the population.