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DPW abuses

topic posted Fri, September 10, 2004 - 3:49 AM by  rocky
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there are stories like this every year. read on.

1: DPW truck driving 20MPH on esplanade. people yell to slow down. driver cranks the music louder and gives the finger.

2: same deal, with the DPW cammo-painted saab.

3: a pair of DPW cars from death guild roll by our camp on esplanade. one of the passangers, a female, yells to a male pedestrian "nice sarong, but you're still fucking fat!". they all cackle and drink more. the guy sort of shrugs it off but is obviously hurt my their insults.

4: a guy named smiles is walking to the temple burn. a DPW car goes by. he hollers for a ride and offers his wine bottle. "sure, if you can get on" they say. he hops onto the back, offers his wine, and is summarily punched in the nose and physically thrown from the moving car. his attackers are laughing as they do this.

now, DPW has plenty of good people. i know one personally who is as kind as sweet as you can imagine. thing is, DPW has a fucking shitload of bad eggs, who maraude around BRC and believe they own the place - understandable, as they're there for a long ass time, and build it. however IMO any organization that allows these kinds of bad eggs to flourish, to reign with impunity, and in fact grants them special rights and privliges (driving, ins and outs, admission, services, ability to land grab before the event) needs to be dismantled. it's not working. year after year, by far the worst experiences, the worst vibes, i experience in BRC come from DPW people, or people affiliated enough to have a sticker, to drive a DPW car around. it's not really possible to tell if the car with the sticker is really being driven by a DPW person or it's just another death guild person out there taking a break from doing the same exact thing they have been doing for seven years now.

so, this is it. this is the call. end DPW. fire them all, and start over, weed out the violent, crazy, abusive fucks. yeah, this tirade will make me unpopular, perhaps a target, but what the fuck, DMV already hates me, why not DPW too. but at least DMV has standards, articulated process, oversight, evaluation and evolution, and of course don't go around attacking people!
posted by:
rocky
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:29 AM
    Yep. No shit.
    Here's how the DPW dealt with free press in BRC this year.

    www.tribe.net/tribe/servl...ntext/person

    Following a less than flattering account of an actual DPW sexual abuse case, Piss Clear got a subtle lesson on the limits of "radical self-expression"

    Fuckin two-bit mafia bullshit intimidation tactics if you ask me.
    Important to note, the tranny STILL won the brass-balls contest.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:10 AM
      i was also told very matter of factly that 'dpw steals beer' and while not believing everything i've heard on the playa, was surprised to read other peoples' commentary about refrigerators broken into, etc.

      for the record, i <heart> cacophony and fuckoism and even good natured callouts from a megaphone on a vehicle within limits (although i think people doing that ALL week is kind of lame). violence and hurting others, their property or in more subtle ways, is not cool in anyway. it's funny how strictly regulated things like art car licensing is by the BM Org, yet the don't seem to care about the DPW reputation or actions, which seem to have gotten way out of hand this year. if the DPW peeps are acting out because they don't feel appreciated, what could be done to show them that? or are they just acting out because they feel entitled to?
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:15 AM
        i also don't understand why organizers like Marian or Larry don't quickly step up to fix this and communicate the fix to the entire community in a very clear way. is this the first year it's ever occurred? is it just 'a few bad eggs' or endemic of a larger pattern/problem in the organization? lastly, i do think that if everyone involved is humbe and compassionate, the problem is resolvable.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 9:34 AM
          Because they need to hear more from people like us. Let them know and let them know we won't stand for it. Also, a hint of possible litigation against them would go far. Write BMan HQ and let them know!!!!!!
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:05 AM
            Are you fucking serious? You think the DPW should be sued because they punched a guy in the face after daring him to try and jump on their car? I mean, I'm no advocate of violence myself, but having read my ticket and seen all the Mad Max movies, there's no way in hell I'd be jumping on that car.

            Yeah, there's some scary assholes out there. I call it fun. I'd much rather be around them then frat boys and ravers.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:03 PM
              Yeah, there's always a few bad apples to make any good organization look bad. That's who we're talking about. And you'd have to be either crazy or scary to accept a ride from dpw or deathguild.... I'd rather hang with them though than the fratz or ravers, you know, birds of a feather.....
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:06 PM
              "sued because they punched a guy in the face"

              Yes, absolutly, that is assault, plain and simple. In addition, all mutant vehicles are plainly told they are to come to a full stop, before letting people on and off their cars.

              I say, ban DPW cars that arnt activily doing a DPW job. Give em the pick-ups, trucks, and golf carts.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:30 PM
                I still like my idea better of covering them all with a minimun 2 inches of nerf. Boys will be boys, but at least this way they'll bounce off of everything harmlessly.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Tue, September 14, 2004 - 5:21 PM
              Wow! You are So right Angel. Say, what is your camp? I can't wait to punch your face to give you the full Mad Max Experience next year. Should I bring a towel for the blood, to LNT? Funny how violence to others is more interesting than violence to yourself.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Tue, September 14, 2004 - 5:21 PM
              Wow! You are So right Angel. Say, what is your camp? I can't wait to punch your face to give you the full Mad Max Experience next year. Should I bring a towel for the blood, to LNT? Funny how violence to others is more interesting than violence to yourself.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:28 AM
        I just wonder if the problems with attitude this year weren't aggravated by the emphasis on safety and childproofing the event. I think there may have been some morale issues this year within the DPW because of all the rules, regulations, crackdowns, etc.

        I don't like the 'holier than thou' attitude emanating from some elements of the DPW either, but I think it comes from a sense of loss, because the event is no longer what it used to be, and it used to be more fun (dangerous), back in the old days when safety came third.

        (I'm not whining or making excuses, as I believe it's incumbent on anyone unhappy with the event to move on.)
        • DPW joys

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:41 AM
          We've heard the stories of the big bad DPW. How about these:

          * When our project, the Aural Reef, was ripped off prior to the event opening by thieves who stole specific lumber, the DPW bent over backwards to get us enough that we could finish our project. Without their assistance we would have been screwed financially and timewise. Every single DPW person I dealt with was enthusiastic, supportive and helpful.

          * When our theme camp brought gear to the Ranch and was held up by a dust storm, the DPW fed us, got us drinks, gave us wonderful information and encouraged us to act safely. They offered us a place to stay and were just all 'round great, especially Metric.

          * DPW workers who swung by my camp this year were cheerful, upbeat and proud of their job. We fed them, slipped them some quality booze and relayed our appreciation for them to take back to everybody.

          While not doubting some of these stories, set and setting need to be considered and some common sense applied. My personal interactions with DPW have been uniformly positive. Somewhere out there is a very large beef brisket with their name on it!
          • Re: DPW joys

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 8:39 AM
            I've had both good and bad experiences with DPW.

            - If it were not for the folks at DPW, our village would never have gotten its wood this year. They forklifted out six cleanly wrapped palettes and dropped them right where we wanted it, when we asked for it. We had a rep from DPW practically bend over backwards before and during the event to help us out on this stuff.

            - We had a bunch of DPW girls raid our bar one day. Although they did their best to clear out all our booze in the 20 minutes before their shift, they were all really nice and fun to hang with. All good people.

            - Last year, one of our campmates was trying to intervene between two guys yelling at each other with bullhorns out at the temple burn. One was a DPW fellow, the other was a friend of ours. She stepped in between them as the DPW guy threw a punch, clocking her in the face. No apologies, the fight got broken up, everyone went their separate ways. Not a good experience, especially at a supposedly solemn event like the temple burn.

            So I've had good and bad, but mostly positive experiences with the DPW folks. I'm friends with quite a few, and they're probably gruff to their mothers too, to tell you the truth. My advice would be to not pass judgement until you share some cold beers with a few of the fine folks who help build our city.


            -splat



        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:12 AM

          understood. we (at gASSo) were at the forefront of the childproofing issues, and were more than once the target of sting operations, at least it seemed. dunno why they placed us two blocks from kidsville, but then again, better that than trying to arrange the whole town around sheilding kids. anyway, attitude didn't seem any different to me.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:05 PM
          I wonder if the overwhelming sense of police presence and possible narcs in our midst made anyone more tense then they ought to have been? Or maybe it was just the porta-pottie situation......
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: DPW abuses

        Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:17 PM
        "it's funny how strictly regulated things like art car licensing is by the BM Org, yet the don't seem to care about the DPW reputation or actions, which seem to have gotten way out of hand this year."

        because there isn't a problem. these are all silly rumors. the bm org cares a lot about their reputation and if this shit was really happening they would do something about it.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: DPW abuses

          Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:19 PM
          okay, didn't read the whole thread and didn't get the context.

          but still, i'd say mainly the dpw that i worked with were a bunch of construction hippies with loud mouths. a ton of fun, but not dangerous.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 9:39 AM
      I think the DPW Forklift stunt On Piss Clear tralior was fucking hysterical. And so did some friends of mine at Piss Clear Camp.


      I hate to hear about the face punching with the wine guy, But I heart DPW, in general.

      You RabbleRousers kick ass!
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:32 PM
        Funny stunt perhaps, but the intention and 2 ton message was clear.

        "Keep your trap shut about Will Roger."

        The laughter I heard wasn't exactly that of 'relieved' laughter either.

        Altamont anyone?
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:19 PM
          that didn't happen because of will rogers. that was something a little more personal. and i will say that they were fed mis-information on the pay of eric close. rumors make rumors. this coming from someone who was in the heart of most of that article...
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:23 PM
            with a nod to wick: they printed an article from an openly antagonistic and disgruntled former employee of dpw without bothering to check on any of the facts...
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:55 PM
            Fair enough.
            I will certainly agree that Piss Clear is one SENSATIONAL rag.
            But I have to ask, where IS the other side to this story?
            I would love to hear it. WHO will possibly run it?
            You can hardly fault a few journalistic foibles when at least they had the balls to open the can of worms in the first place.
            As a result the discussion is now open. I personally prefer open heated discussion to dark and dirty secrets anyday.

            I'm open to the whole deal. Does anyone from DPW care to address some of the factual contentions surrounding said article?
            You have to admit, it certainly raised more questions than answers.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:46 PM
              i'm not standing up for will rogers or the llc here but i will defend eric close and what happened with the burn victim. if you want to talk about it write me personally....
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Sun, September 12, 2004 - 6:22 PM
                Actually the facts in that artical are accurate (concearning Eric's salery)and i stand by them. Eric himmself has admited as much. While some people are of course pissed about hanging out dirty loundry the info concearning Will Roger(whom i still respect though that doesn't for a second excuse him of his behavior when he was blacked out) I think people have a right to know that surpasses any expectaction of privicy in the matter. So far as BM is concearned he is a public Figure and as such is open to his actions being made public but it wasn't about Will(by my intention) it was about the LLC covering it up and of course my own last word on being fired for having the audacity to question authority. Yes i called eric a brown noser- thats my opinion in an opinion piece, but his salery is a fact that i personaly triple checked with multiple sources. Eric aside people do have a right to know where their money goes when they drop a few bills to go to BM-how can any of you argue with that?
                Remember that outside the little microcosm of BM all this is basicly meaningless anyway. What happened to the burn victim was a drunken axcident and thats kinda par for the course in DPW but how it was dealt with at the time by Will, even blacked out, was utterly indefensible and shameless.
                And by the way y'all, do not confuse death guild with DPW, there is interchange between the groups but no death guilder would ever pull some of the shit a few fucked up and assholeish DPW indiviguals pull every year. Most of the ones that do that aren't even regulure DPW players in my past experiance, just fucked up friends jumping on the bandwagon.May their beer always be skunked. None the less y'all should be ashamed of that kind of bullshit- just ain't no excuse to assualt and rob people.
                I have immense respect for the vast majority of peeps involved with the dpw and quite alot of the opposite for a few of them especially on the managment side. Not becouse i think they're bad peeps but becouse they've lost perspective in a way that is hurtful, damaging, disrespectful and just plain fucked up wrong.
                DPW should prove itself by reining in its most extreme loose cannons or eventually someone's going to call in a BLM ranger or Walshoe or Pershing cop and press charges, would searve them right too. But this not aimed at the DPW in general, just some of the fucked up bullshit perpetuated by a few. Tex would agree with me if he were around, in fact he said so in his last post to me about a month before he died. No apoligies, no shame and no need to give a shit anymore. So what i wrote a pissy(if factualy true) artical in Piss Clear? What the parties involved can't take a little? Wah! Wah! Sounds like a bunch of whiney pussies to me(meaning Eric and few others not the DPW in general at all) Simon is forgiven for the fork lift stunt, kinda funny, though if i were there i would have taken out the spark plug and mailed it to him via playa post.
                The only thing i can really say in responce to pissing off some people is BOOYA!Direct fucking hit- some people can't palate some truth- wake the fuck up and smell the hot springs.
                Oh and don't forget-
                i still love and respect most of you guys anyway no matter what amount of bs about me you may care to believe.
                Y'all have fun in your fishbowl.
                Namaste as i wanna be,
                Tym Simpson (aka elcircusmanotymboy)
                • Re: DPW abuses

                  Sun, September 12, 2004 - 6:33 PM
                  So this article....is there a copy of it floating around out there on the internet anywhere?

                  I didn't get to go to BRC, so I didn't get to see a single Piss Clear, Some friends did give me a copy of the Gate Edition of the BRC, but that's it so far.

                  daMongolian
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Sun, September 12, 2004 - 6:50 PM
                    Hey you! Nice pic BTW! Ya you can get it off of Piss Clear's website when they get around to updating it(ostensibly by mid month) Its in the thursday edition. Actually i haven't seen the final copy since i trusted A with any editing he saw fit(freedom of the press belongs to he or she who owns one).
                    Pissclear.org
                    After nine years i think i was entitled to a good parting shot.
                    Someone should call Eric a Wahbulance, he can whine all the way to the bank.
                    Again it was never aimed at the bulk of the good peeps in DPW.
                    Sorry guys, I really am a team player i'm just not on the same team as the managment council. I just can't stomach group think ya know, that was never what the whole damn thing was sopposed to be about anyway now is it?

                    See ya on the flipside.
                    • Re: DPW abuses

                      Sun, September 12, 2004 - 6:58 PM

                      Thanks, I'll keep my eyes on the Piss Clear site for the update.

                      I've got SuperSnail to thank for the pic, he snapped it at the Fire Arts Festival

                      daMongolian
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Tue, September 14, 2004 - 7:36 PM
      My sources tell me that the forklift parked in front of Piss Clear's trailer was done by the guy who builds the cafe in responce to a rant(clearly labled)about getting rid of the cafe. While he is DPW I'm pretty sure he didn't do that as DPW or in responce to my interview. It was a prank- nothing more and no big deal. Adrian, the editor of Piss Clear wasn't taken back by that so much as the liklihood that a huge stack of Piss Clears with a less than flattering artical on the DPW were stolen last year. The chief suspect being and irate and irrational fucked up(at the time, sober he's a pretty nice guy) Tony Coyote(lead DPW Manager).Or possibly the BLM since it was the sex and drugs issue. About 50% probability either way IMHO.
      Nothing excuses the assaults and thefts by a minority by the crew or people posing as them though. Keep bitching about it and they won't be there next year.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Tue, September 14, 2004 - 8:56 PM
        Ahh....the infamous Piss Clear Drug Issue.

        heh....well any reports you may have heard about the Black Rock Rangers being ordered to go out and collect all the issues is false.

        Any Rangers you may have seen grabbing more than one issue, was likely doing it so they'd have a copy to give their friends, we thought it was hilarious!!!

        daMongolian
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 8:09 AM
    I think that all DPW members and equipment should be covered with at least 2 inches of NERF at all times.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 8:47 AM
      yea dpw fucked our camp up this year and costs us some money but most importantly they stole some champaynge that was going to be used to celebrate our camps final year on the playa. Now I dont really care about the cost of their little looting and damage to our camp. What I am pissed off at is the fact that this continues to happen and nothing is done about it.

      What also really gets me going is the fact that they think they own the place.

      1. they get paid and fed to be out there.
      2. if it was not for the common ticket holder DPW would not have a job.
      3. If it was not for DPW the common man would not have a burn (point for DPW)
      4. A good chunk of DPW have warrants out for their arrest and are nomads that live on the street or can barely make it without burningman to employee and pay them for 3 months outta the year.

      Now I don't want to harp on all of DPW cause I have seen a "few" nice ones but the majority can kiss my ass and I will NEVER donate food to them again.

      Hmmm kinda makes you think who will be the first person to class action larry for having his staff assault ticket holders. I think that would change alot but not for the good.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:16 AM

        to add to the thread, as i said in my original post, there are some totally sweet wonderful people on DPW, and i have had interactions with them each year.

        i didn't know they were *all* paid. also, crazy news about many of them being street fucks with warrants. kind of explains a lot of things.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:39 AM
          well maybe i was harsh. But its true that many of them are not exactly model citizens. I do enjoy what DPW does just not alot of them and their uber look at us kewl people cause we picked up a hammer and built something crap!
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: DPW abuses

          Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:21 PM
          "also, crazy news about many of them being street fucks with warrants. kind of explains a lot of things. "

          what kind of classist bullshit is that?
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:43 AM
        i've never heard anything good about DPW and was sweared at unnecessarly by one of their vehicals. I don't really care if someone wants to direct a verbal attack at me, but it seems in key with the other kinds of things i'm hearing here.

        sounds like a bunch of kids without a parent to keep them in check.

        what happened with piss clear exactly?
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:56 AM
          "i've never heard anything good about DPW"

          Here's a couple for you from my burn this year:
          1) I was walking down the esplanade after the temple burn, and heard commotion on a megaphone. I spot the DPW truck and go check it out, assuming I'm about to have fun and be hassled by a drunk asshole. Turns out they were playing this little game called "BEEEEER ROULETTE." They had a couple garbage bags in the back of the truck, and you'd reach in blind and pull out either good beer, cheap beer, soda, or juice. It made my night.

          2) I was busting my ass getting a truck loaded on Monday, and had nothing left to eat but cold lentil soup. A friendly DPW face comes by to make small talk, and seeing my plight remembers that somebody was trying to give away some perishables a block away. She runs off and promptly returns with a basket full of cheese and crackers for us.

          The moral of the story: yes, there's lots of asshole DPW fucks. There's also lots of asshole non-DPW fucks, but the DPW isn't demanding that all current participants be banned and a new batch let in. Nor are they threatening to sue us.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 10:58 AM
          You were "sweared at unnecessarly"? Good god, what is Burning Man coming to?
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:10 AM
            my favorite was the "dogs" fighting at their camp over their loud speaker....could it have been any more obnoxious? that was possibly the most annoying thing i've ever heard....

            good times....
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:15 AM
              actually i will give dpw credit for the dogs. That shit made me laugh so hard. They did something that was in regulation and got in trouble for it. I laughed hard.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:16 AM
                ya, it was pretty funny when you weren't camped right next to it.....ha ha ha
                • Re: DPW abuses

                  Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:23 PM
                  i love my camp!!! and the dogs were mobile at times too.....oh and to say we're all assholes is a bit overreacting when we feed and share drinks with all those who ask. maybe your just a little intimidated and maybe you take things a bit too seriously....
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:15 AM
              That was a sound cannon hooked up to one of the DPW vehicles. It alternated with the simulated sound of .50 cal machine gun fire. Still, at least it provided a bit more variety than last year, when the cannon only made the machine gun noise.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:32 AM
                Doing the rickshaw thing this year was excellent for me as a giving tool and a way to create my own experience.

                Next year, giving rides to overworked+nice(even fucko nice) DPW/ranger peeps will be at the top of my list from the get-go - and the johnny-on-the-spot staff (as long as they wash their hands!). Similarly, i hope to give lots of rides to moms/dads/kids, older people and of course beautiful playa people. Pedalers welcome too :)
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:57 AM
                The fighting dogs were great. I remember first hearing that sound Monday at daybreak echoing across the playa. I couldn't quite figure out what I was hearing. One of my campmates thought it was a turkey. It was very disturbing. I loved it!
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:57 PM
              How 'bout the zebra car with the loud monkey-rapes-rabbit noises on the PA? The guy yelling "SUN!!!!!" on my first morning at sunup was an interesting welcome to my week of surrealist frolic!
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:06 PM
        here's where you show what you don't know.

        most of dpw are volunteers.

        a good chunk of dpw are people who have real lives outside of this and take vacation time/time off to come out and help build this city.

        another sizable chunk are students.

        the washoe county sheriff's dept is just down the street. we see them daily. wave to them. often eat dinner next to them. to my knowledge, no one runs for cover when they stop by. it would seem if there were some sort of grand nest of arrestable warrents, they would have long ago been served. but there are not.

        am sorry whatever your experience with whatever dpw individual was bad, but the organization as a whole is a pretty amazing, efficient and hard-working group of people that i am proud to be a part of.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:17 PM
          Then DPW needs to take a serious look at themselves and weed out some people who are seriously really tearing down the reputation of DPW.

          I agree they do a great job and many are very cool people but I have pretty much lost patience with a certain aura of arrogance some of them seem to have acquired. I can honestly say that every experience i had with a DPW person was NOT a good one. I camped near the Ghetto,so there were constant interactions.
          First year ever I can say that.And it makes me sort of sad to say it too. I kind of used to respect and admire them. I still do, but not nearly as much.

          We donated no food nor booze to them this year. Another first for me.











          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:22 PM
            Just my two cents anyway...

            I am sure next year all will reverse itself and i will end up running away to join DPW and will be involved in a huge DPW group hug and we will all join hands and skip into the sunset together...singing "The rainbow connection"

            ;)
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Sat, September 11, 2004 - 12:58 PM

          squeak - thanks for your perspective. i'm very careful to point out that this is a "bad egg" situation. yes i calle dfor the whole thing to be rebuilt, but it sounds like there are enough good eggs to make it happen.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, December 1, 2006 - 9:41 PM
        They are NOT all paid! I don't know the exact numbers but for what I could see it seemd at least half were volunteers. We did get fed but that's about it. Some that return get paid but it is way less than most of them could make in the real world. I consider most people behind the scenes at BRC paid or not volunteers in that respect. It takes a certain type of person to do those jobs. They'e called 10%ers. Why don't all you fuckers that come out to the desert for just a week clean up after yourselves better and show some appreciation. Mayber the DPW would have a better attitude towards the people they build and tear down a city for.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Sat, December 2, 2006 - 2:09 PM
          The Man crew actually falls under the Arts dept. but they are all DPW.Some paid some volunteer.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: DPW abuses

        Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:23 PM
        not all of the donated food goes to dpw.

        and how do you know that it was the dpw that fucked up your camp? seriously?
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:29 AM
    Unfortunate, and I agree not respectful or cool. And painful. Who wants to get punched? Not me. Yet the event pushes people to the edge, and I hope it continues to do so.

    It is human nature to act this way. I'm not saying I am thrilled about this, but its simply the way humans act. Escalating the issue, like so many other issues in life, is not going to help. These people are going to attend BM and punch people. BM lends itself to this Mad Max style reality. There is a part of me that appreciates the wild element and another part that really feels rocky's pain. Yes its dangerous, and yes everyone needs to be prepared to prevent death and injury, even if its from some drunks fucks on a truck. This is not an organizational issue; attempting to punish will only result in darker, more fucked up, and more secretive forms of violence. This is what people do. If its people you want at BM, this shit is going to happen.

    Learn to use a lasso! (or something) Fish one of them off the truck and suspend them in mid-air from your art car while berating them thouroughly with a megaphone. Flog 'em if needed. They will appreciate it. Give 'em a good spanking and maybe a beer, and send them on their way, but don't punch them back. Use a Nerf bat or something. That way we can lower the violence level gradually.

    Maintain the full freedom of BRC. And for the love of crap, no family friendly fucking bullshit. If you take your kids to BM, you are fucking crazy. Since children do not have judgement skills, they should not be able to enter the event. Their life is inappropriately more at risk than grown-ups.

    You cannot have hot without cold. The colder the cold, the hotter the hot seems to be. People need to cover their own asses at BM, or pay the price.

    I agree that agressive random acts of violence do need to be addressed. They grey area below that is part of the pavement of BM.


    "Party! Get naked! Buy us beer!" -RHH
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:35 AM
      Well said, Damien.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 11:55 AM

        except the part about children. they do fine there. anyone have any trouble with kids? anyone here actually bring their own kids and care to comment?

        bringing them is not, IMO, crazy. it can be, depending on what you do. but IMO it's no crazier than disneyland, or las vegas. ignore your kids in either of those places, let them run wild, that's crazy. same in BRC. but it's not just bringing them that's the problem. i'd be bummed to see kids banned from the event, and my camp has good reason to *want* that, given the hassles we got into regarding minors, but in all the discussion about how to fix the problems, not once did anyone wish that kids weren't allowed.



        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:10 PM
          > except the part about children. they do fine there. anyone have any trouble with kids? anyone here actually bring their own kids and care to comment? <

          So, I think it's not the kids so much as the parents.

          True story, I think this happened on Friday night. Little boy, about eight years old or so, shows up at our camp, sort of just rummaging around. Someone calls over to him "Hey, are you lost? Come sit down for a minute." So he does. Another campmate realizes that he's severely dehydrated (sniffling, flushed, etc.: also his eyes are completely red and bloodshot) so she gets him some water or juice or something, and someone else asks him where he's camping, and he sort of makes a vague gesture with his hands, then explains that he was camping in Kidsville, but now he's "someplace else" with his mom and some of her friends. He doesn't remember how to get back to where he is, he doesn't know where his mom is, he's sick and sort of stressed and really needs help. So we're deciding how to get hold of the nearest Ranger when the kid just disappears, slips away. Then we spot him down the street a bit, someone goes over to tell him to hang out while we get someone to find his camp for him, and he runs away at full speed down the street.

          Luckily we're camped across the street from DPW Little Texas, and we wave over to one of our friends there and get him to radio over to the Rangers. They show up within moments and get the story, and several hours later return again and tell us that the kid was found safe and returned home because of the information we gave them.

          Kids do not do simply "do fine there." They have to have responsible guardians to watch what they're getting into. If the guardian is not a responsible one, kids can get in big trouble. The same is true on the playa as it is in the real world.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:18 PM
            well, if he's a runner... he needs a leash.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:29 PM
              not to get too off topic from the rowdy DPW. but sometimes Kids disobey and I'm well acquainted with "runners." They'll run off cuz its a game and fun, only to get scared and lost later. The parents were most likely frantic.

              then there is the "don't talk to strangers" thing so maybe the kid got creeped out in the camp.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:45 PM
            I had heard the vague anti DPW rumblings around the playa. But being only a second year burner, I decided to adopt a wait and see for myself stance.

            Didn't have to wait too long. I was performing for the pussy posse bus immediately after the temple burn. In the middle of waving the flaming sticks about my head, I suddenly have to stop motion and check myself. Why? A dpw truck is driving right at me. And fast at that.

            I do realize that they have an important job to do. Especially at that given moment. But my safety was compromised, as was my girlfriend's. She was safetying me, with her back turned to the truck. This was beyond a level I can comprehend. When I have a lit tool(s) in my hand, waving about head and shoulders, I do not need the added possibilty of blunt trauma from a pick up truck. Please don't feed the distractions.

            I'm all for autonomous self regulation. I quite regret that I missed the days of drive by shooting ranges, and practical molotov cocktail seminars. I love that shit. I guarentee I have more burn scars than most. But there is a certain amount of properly firing synapses that could go along with that shit when applied towards others.

            So dear DPW, I'm sorry your badass event has shifted to hippie's and Etards. (disclosure, I've been known to fraternize with both.) But that's the nature of anything great. It changes with popularity. It's probably time to grab Deathguild and head up to the mutantfest or start your own event. You're way outnumbered by the love lovers. I'll come if you invite me, and we'll blow up hyundais by the pocketfull. I have cool fuels, and lots of firegeek friends.

            But the burn as you remember it is no more. And all the posturing and punching and heckling isn't gonna change that.

            And you also may want to remember that even the most snuggly, annoying Etard may be one of the Gracie's best friends. And I know for a fact that one of the luvvy-duvvyiest cats out there this year was a two-time national Arnis stick fighting champion. So you may want to think about that next time you take a swing at a hippy.

            And why in God's name would you disregard somebody holding a flaming staff?
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Sun, September 19, 2004 - 3:01 PM
            Kids are not the problem, fucking irresponsible parents/guardians are. I am the mayor of kidsville and I make sure that all of our campers know this or they are not invited back. I fully support kids being on the playa, I bring both of mine every year, they have a great time and all the others we camp with in kidsville do fine as well.

            It's a city of 35, 000 people there are going to be bad eggs, wether it's DPW 'unnecessarly cursing' or if a child gets lost or is ignored by his/her parents it's going to happen. Banning kids and making it an adult only event will only serve to placate the authority of the outside world. Not only that but tell me truthfully if you really believe that you can call burning man a community and not have kids there.

            I for one appreciate that you took it upon yourself to rescue that kid and make sure that he got the attention that was obviosly needed. That is the very reason I want to bring my kids to the playa every year. Even with 35,000 people I can trust that there will be a HUGE response from the community and my child will be returned without much damage. :-)

            Zaphod
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Tue, February 22, 2011 - 6:21 AM
      It's an old post, but haven't seen this, I couldn't let it pass.

      "It is human nature to act this way. I'm not saying I am thrilled about this, but its simply the way humans act."

      Bullshit. Lots and lots of places have real, working systems of law, without the kind of guerrilla warfare that you describe following in response:

      "This is not an organizational issue; attempting to punish will only result in darker, more fucked up, and more secretive forms of violence. This is what people do."

      No, this is what rednecks do.

      "Learn to use a lasso! (or something) Fish one of them off the truck and suspend them in mid-air from your art car while berating them thouroughly with a megaphone. Flog 'em if needed. They will appreciate it. Give 'em a good spanking and maybe a beer, and send them on their way, but don't punch them back. Use a Nerf bat or something. That way we can lower the violence level gradually."

      That way we can send the rednecks the message that when they refrain from assaulting others, that this is a gift they're giving, that people aren't entitled to not be physically assaulted. That's really an awesomely stupid thing for the rest of us to do. The rednecks will be left chuckling as they periodically break the unjust peace that you have made with them, unafraid of the consequences that you will have shown them that they won't need to face.

      You suggest that escalation doesn't help. Quite wrong. What doesn't help is moderate escalation, because that is followed by tit for tat. What does work, wonderfully, however, is shock and awe, massive retaliation. Then keep up the attack until they ask you for peace. Do this, and you'll be sending the right message - that peace isn't something that the rednecks gave you, it's something you gave them, and can and will take back at a moment's notice if they ever act up again. They'll never understand the concept of love, but fear is one that they can learn very well, given the proper instruction.

      If the local area has a working system of laws, the needed shock and awe can easily be provided through the use of a few hidden cameras as one follows the DPW through a not very lawful day, and one posts those videos to a variety of public locations online, embarrassing law enforcement into taking action. This should include videotaping any and all use and distribution of contraband, especially if minors should be involved. The beauty of this is that the exclusionary rule only applies to evidence collected by law enforcement. There is no fourth amendment protection, when evidence is collected by private citizens. It's all admissible in court, no matter how one gets it.

      I once ran a mental tally, and found that one gentleman that I was watching would be left facing a minimum of 50 years before he would be eligible for parole, were he properly and skillfully ratted out, and that this was not at all unusual. Start doing this to a lot of the rednecks and - and this is important - to their friends and loved ones as well. To lose fifty years or more out of one's life isn't a hassle one shrugs off. One will be old and grey when one gets out. It is a life destroying experience. Let them watch those they care about be destroyed because of what they did, and tit for tat will be over, very quickly. But be sure to keep going for a little while after they back off, to remind them that they'd better never go there, ever again. If they do, no mercy. Continue until you've destroyed their lives, and the lives of everybody close to them.

      If the local region doesn't have a working system of law - most of us are from major cities, right? I'm sure that you know how to "improvise" in such situations. The same principles will apply.
      • This stops, Here and Now.

        Wed, February 23, 2011 - 3:02 PM
        So, your solution is to stalk people, with a hidden camera, until you can rat them out. Why stop there? Why not install a closed camera network, in the whole city?

        Where do things like you come from, anyway?
        Did Geraldo Rivera pump your mom's fat butt full of baby batter? What else can explain your revolting voyeuristic desire to manipulate other people?
        • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

          Fri, February 25, 2011 - 6:11 AM
          "Where do things like you come from, anyway?"

          Where do retards like you come from?

          "Did Geraldo Rivera pump your mom's fat butt full of baby batter? What else can explain your revolting voyeuristic desire to manipulate other people?"

          For those with short attention spans: We've been talking about DPW members who've been guilty of "assault", as some have called it, though the proper legal term would be "aggravated battery" - and somebody's concern that if those engaging in the battery were to discover that law enforcement had been brought into the picture, that those engaged in the battery would get even more violent when nobody was looking, because that, he said, was just human nature. I called bullshit on that, and talked about how to deal with the kind of thug who is going to turn more violent when he feels that he is fighting for his right to be violent. In other words, a redneck.

          Zaius claims to think that by doing so, one would be "manipulating" other people. Zaius is either full of shit, or psychotic - probably both. As for where people like me come from, the ones who don't believe that psychotic assholes like Zaius should be left able to make the rules for the rest of us, just by benefit of being psychotic enough, that's a complicated subject, so I'll only attempt a partial answer. We come from places where people don't marry their own sisters, or even their own cousins, and where people like Zaius are put where they belong - in closed psychiatric wards, where they are fed and washed daily by the staff, and soon forgotten by the rest of us. It seems fitting to me that his avatar is an image of a fictional ape that he has even named himself after, because he is surely something less than human, and one has a hard time believing that he is for real.

          Oh, by the way, Zaius - the traditional way of dealing with "good old boys", here in Chicago, is not to follow them around with cameras and then push law enforcement into doing, what law enforcement really should have been doing all along, and getting them off the streets to make those streets safer for those who deserve better. Our tradition tends to be a little messier, and doesn't always leave the next of kin knowing where to look, after differences have been resolved. I'd rather use the legal system, than resort to the creative use of cutlery and other things, as so many did in the old days.

          How interesting that you would have a problem with that.
          • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

            Fri, February 25, 2011 - 7:43 AM
            Perfect argument for cell service at the event. Go for it.
            • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

              Fri, February 25, 2011 - 10:24 AM
              Good lord, this is fucking ridiculous.

              Here's a hint for the moron who felt the need to resurrect this ancient thread: IF NO ONE'S BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS, MAYBE IT'S NOT SUCH A PROBLEM.

              But hey, if you need to pretend you're Big Brother to get a hard-on, go for it. Radical self-expression and all that.
              • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                Sat, February 26, 2011 - 5:27 AM
                Here's a hint to the airhead who just decided to pipe up: This tribe is not the whole world, the issue has been brought elsewhere in years other than 2004, and if you think that bullying is ever going to be a passing fad, anywhere that it has been seen and not met with real resistance, then you've been living a sheltered life, bizarrely late into a life that one can only hope will be ending soon. I generally don't like the idea of urging our elders to hurry up and move into the great beyond, but given what we'll be losing when you attain room temperature, with you I can make an exception with a clear conscience.

                But thank you for teaching me that bit is possible for a man in his 60s to be a spoiled little girl. Who knew?

                • So you're afraid of bullies. I can dig it. Here's the thing:

                  if you follow strangers around with cameras because of a suspicion you've conceived, and your evidence is talk that others have made - on websites - you •definitely• deserve to get punched. I mean, like, repeatedly, and in front of other people. A lot of people. Punched hard enough to cause one of the many onlookers to whisper "oh my god" in sincere horror, and heavily enough for an awkward intense silence to perfectly frame the "oh my god" over the sound of a wet face-shaped bag of meat being punched really really hard, again and again.

                  I hope this is not too vague.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "So you're afraid of bullies."

                    Not really. My memory of the high school bully ends with me, having beaten him until he couldn't move, dragging him out onto the street and teaching him the meaning of the word "biting the curb". That's the difference between people like me and people like you. You're a wussy little fuckhead, swaggering from behind the safe anonymity of a computer screen, trying to be a barbarian. I really am a barbarian, who has chosen to be civilized and worked hard to become so - but push me far enough, and I will revert and feel good about it. Count on it.

                    Bullies don't scare me. They piss me off.

                    "I can dig it. Here's the thing:

                    if you follow strangers around with cameras because of a suspicion you've conceived, and your evidence is talk that others have made - on websites - you •definitely• deserve to get punched. I mean, like, repeatedly, and in front of other people. A lot of people. Punched hard enough to cause one of the many onlookers to whisper "oh my god" in sincere horror, and heavily enough for an awkward intense silence to perfectly frame the "oh my god" over the sound of a wet face-shaped bag of meat being punched really really hard, again and again.

                    I hope this is not too vague."

                    If you ever try something like that with me, I'll kill you. I don't mean that I'll make you really hurt. I mean, your heart will stop beating, and your body will start to decay - and you'll hurt a lot before that happens, because one of the disadvantages of being a barbarian is that one starts out with a real bent toward sadism. I'm not guessing when I say that the law will support me in this, because the issue has come up, before. It's called "self-defense", and it's one of the few sensible provisions left in a body of law often crafted by worthless, useless, ass kissing cowards a lot like yourself.

                    "Worthless" might be thought of as being a very slight exaggeration by some, I suppose. You boys - and I do mean "boys", not "men" - are serving a very useful purpose, right now. You're doing an excellent job of showing exactly what Burning Man is all about, to anybody reading this, and it's not an image that will sell tickets to anybody but the dumbest people on earth.
                    • Ha!

                      You're a joke. Oooooh gonna killlll meeeeeh. Dude! Bwahaha!

                      PM me for my address, and get all set to feel really, really silly.

                      "Waaaah! the bad internet people ain't respektin me!" I sincerely lol. It's rare, baby. This is your moment: SHINE. You're a superstar and made of fucking violent razor lightning flame pops, bitches, COUNT ON IT. You are one baaaaaaad motherfucker.
                      • "PM me for my address, and get all set to feel really, really silly."

                        LOL, yourself. Anybody stupid enough to ask for such an address and then go to it, deserves the ambush that follows. This one is older than time: hire or recruit some muscle, give a fake address, and then invite somebody to go visit it. I would have had more street smarts than to fall for that when I was five. One does not let one's enemy choose the time and place of one's meeting, if an attack is what one has in mind, and one does not go without knowing who that enemy is, and where he is. Or let somebody else goad one into initiating the attack. I promised you self-defense, and I'll keep that promise, but I'm not going to be stupid enough to give you a warning that a prosecutor could twist around in the minds of a jury, and then strike first, or walk into a place where the witnesses will be friendly to you and dishonest enough to lie about who struck first, when the matter comes to trial.

                        I've dealt with rednecks before. I know what you'll sink to.

                        But since you want to be a tough guy, what's your real first name, "Loki"? Mine's out there. It's been posted to Tribe, shared on Ning, and is publicly known. How about yours? Or is acting like a real bad d00d something that you only have the nerve to do when nobody has any idea of who you are? While we're at it, who's Zaius? Feel like coming in out of the shadows, boys? Got the guts to do so?
                        • No; you frighten me far too much. I know that I should give you and every other reader my personal information on demand, in order to prove my manliness, as yours has been so amply proven, but I'm too much of a little bitch. Cool that you are unafraid and yet too savvy to get caught in my little ambush trap. I totally meant to get you back for this travesty your loyal banger friends made me wear an orange tie and disinfect my desk - but you're just tooooo smart, and too powerful. If you find your balls, though, come on over~! I promise you, this time, I -won't- arrange for a gang of lesbians to capture you & force you to build charity housing. I just want you to gaze upon me (eyelashes) and contemplate kicking my sorry, cowardly ass, because I truly believe I would laugh really, really hard at your facial expressions. Plus, I am a MASTER OF THE NUNCHAKU, and that frightens any cringing little fleck of stinking shit the internet has to pinch out. Raaaa! Charlie Sheen eats my toe-jam, HaT, and thanks me for the privilege. Think about it. Watch Chuck Norris' head bob up and down in my lap and *consider what that really means*, HaT. Consider it deeply.

                          Feeling any better, lately? Hope so. They won't admit it, but a lot of people missed you.
              • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                Tue, March 1, 2011 - 1:22 AM
                > "IF NO ONE'S BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS, MAYBE IT'S NOT SUCH A PROBLEM."

                oh it used to be a big problem, no idea if it is anymore. after some years org management finally started to address the worst of it, and they made some considerable progress.

                but you will still hear the bullshit denials from dpw people even after all these years have gone by. outright refusal to admit there ever was a problem, or just a bunch of excuses like it was just a few bad apples. but being dpw, or ex-dpw, or whatever - im sure you dont like hearing any of that either since they are your friends or you still have those close personal attachments that automatically invalidates criticisms of them.
                • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                  Tue, March 1, 2011 - 4:28 AM
                  fuck man, let me apologize for that, sorry

                  i mean thats over exagerating the problem from what i experienced, and i got a few of the hostel kids in dpw pretty quick because i knew they would rock out. when blowing off steam and trying to kick back, and with the rough dpw attitude.. i cant fault them over minor shit like that because some of those were my friends. but there were some other problems that came about, serious enough and they didnt get worked out for the same reasons. we just dont throw our buds under the bus like that, but we dont call them out either when were just chillin and having fun with it.

                  i really dont know anymore, except im too old for burningman now.

                  well fuck me.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                    Tue, March 1, 2011 - 8:40 AM
                    They're warlocks with tiger blood and Adonis DNA, baby. The rest of you are droopy-eyed armless children.
                    • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                      Wed, March 2, 2011 - 4:16 AM
                      For the record:

                      On going to his profile, I find this link on Bob's profile.

                      sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

                      "Bob" is none other than Robert Stahl, a member of the Burning Man LLC, itself.

                      www.google.com/search

                      If anybody reading this was wondering if it was fair to judge Burning Man by the rantings of a few loudmouths who just happened to wander into an online forum about Burning Man, this should answer that question. This guy is one of the people who runs Burning Man. He speaks for the event, and there he is on record, speaking in support of the view that the DPW volunteers should feel free to physically attack the other people at Burning Man, without having to worry about their actions having any real consequences.

                      That's a redneck for you - a full grown man going through the terrible twos. Notice how one can't see almost anybody other than me speaking out against this attitude in anything other than the weakest and most vacillating sort of way, and more than a few speaking loudly and directly in its support? This is why I did right by posting to this thread. No matter how many years have passed since the first post, this discussion left issues hanging in the air that never saw a real resolution, at least not one that anybody other than an utter fool would feel comfortable with, and in doing so, said something pretty basic about the community that grew up around Burning Man. Something not very complimentary.

                      Something that people thinking about going to Burning Man might want to think about, before breaking out the checkbook. Does it make sense to spend at least a few hundred dollars, to go hang out with people like this? The desert is always there, and you don't need to pay $300 to get into it. Art can be found in almost any sizable town on the planet. So where's the bang for your buck, the reasons for spending all of that cash? What one usually hears is the word "community". One nows get to see exactly what kind of community that is, without the marketing spin, and without the LLC being able to make itself and its event look good by being able to control what one is seeing.

                      How very careless of them.
                      • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                        Wed, March 2, 2011 - 5:26 AM
                        You'd enjoy more success at this, or at least a bit less offhanded shaming and laughter from people you're trying to scare, I think, if you took a little time to get to know your forum-mates, and the history of the ongoing dialectic herein, before making hasty assumptions, there, tiger.

                        Also, this is hilarious:

                        >>This is why I did right by posting to this thread.<<

                        HAHAHAHAHA - that's two lols in two days! i take it back about you not being entertaining enough. that was biased selective memory, there, man, and I do apologize for that.
                        • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                          Wed, March 2, 2011 - 6:49 AM
                          As you've now been reduced to saying "oh, yeah" and rambling incoherently - I mean, more incoherently than usual - to continue would be to beat the point to death. Goodbye, Loki. I wonder if I'll remember you, tomorrow.
                          • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                            Wed, March 2, 2011 - 7:30 AM
                            Sigh! :(

                            A little of me *will* stay with you - for about five days.

                            The enhanced vocabulary lessons will stay with you for a lifetime, though, and for that, I feel somewhat proud. :)
                    • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                      Fri, March 4, 2011 - 3:46 PM
                      in any case, they've been through enough and still held it together to come out well on the other side, while lazy assed people like me still enjoy the benefits of their work.

                      so at this point they deserve for me to shut the fuck up already
          • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

            Fri, February 25, 2011 - 6:45 PM
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>Our tradition tends to be a little messier,<<<<<<<<<<<


            Well, if you are any example, this "Chicago Way" of yours, consists of messing your pants, and crying loudly, until Mommy fixes your Boo-Boo.
            • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

              Sat, February 26, 2011 - 5:31 AM
              "... this 'Chicago Way' of yours, consists of messing your pants ..."

              Why don't you drop by Englewood, sometime, bounce that theory off of a few of the brothers, and see what happens, big guy? But I guess that I am feeding the trolls.
              • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                Sun, February 27, 2011 - 8:04 PM
                Oh, yes. By all means, let's visit your friends in Chicago.You can tell them all about your desire to be a Junior G-Man, and show them your super secret spy camera. I'm sure that you want to be the very best Police Informant, that you can be.

                I'll just ask your friends how they like having a stool pigeon in the nest.

                Oh, the fur will fly, but an important lesson will be learned. No one likes, or trusts a Snitch. Not even the cops.

                Taking care of your own problems is a big part of Self- sufficiency. If you really need Mommy to solve your problems, perhaps you should stay in her basement.
                • Re: This stops, Here and Now.

                  Mon, February 28, 2011 - 5:24 AM
                  "I'll just ask your friends how they like having a stool pigeon in the nest."

                  You actually believe that gang members, who don't even know you, are going to rally to your defense out of a sense of thug solidarity? That's very funny. But do go ask them for their help with your problem. Please do. They're sensitive souls. I'm sure they'll help you out, and they LOVE Klansmen wannabes.

                  "Taking care of your own problems is a big part of Self- sufficiency."

                  Fuck the ten principles. Yes, I said it. If you're taking a once a year camping trip into a place that just barely qualifies as a desert as your guide to life, and ticket to a recognition of your inner badness, then you really need to get a firmer hold on reality. "Y-y-you'd be breaking the rules by not being a proper badass, along the lines laid out by our peerless leader". Newsflash, Melvin - real badasses don't care that much about guidelines and made up rules, and they kick the asses of the poseurs they meet.

                  That's a stupid role for anybody to aspire to, but if you're going to try, try to do it right. Right now, even a librarian would be fighting the urge to kick dust in your face, just on general principle.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    you no how them bangers haf tbe gettin online explainin shit tsum dumbass mothafuckaaaaas WUT WUT OG innahaaaaaus

                    werd, dawg

                    keep it rill; best go getcha brothas
                    • The redneck is a racist. Who would have seen that coming?

                      I am almost certainly better educated than you, Loki, and am definitely smarter than you. I would not mangle the English language in that way, or use Ebonics, even as a joke. Wrong stereotype, anyway, dummy - my personal mix is mostly Sicilian with a good hefty dose of Arab. A good many of my friends are Black, however, and I would no sooner show them disrespect by mimicking their stereotype, than they would, me.
                      • Racist? What? What the hell are you talking about now?


                        Are you saying there's something inherently racial about the word choices I've been making? Explain. Or stfu. Or admit that I terrify you.
                        • * Snore * You're just babbling, now.
                          • fetid sack

                            Thu, March 3, 2011 - 7:24 AM
                            Pay closer attention, wee:

                            • if you stalk a person you suspect of a crime make good and sure you are not mistaken
                            • and please don't cry on this way after you have been thoroughly and horrifyingly injured by the person you stalked - you deserved it, in that case, you see
                            • if you were anything you pretend to be you'd have the balls to face the person you're accusing - your novella on the wrong thread indicates clearly that you lack that kind of fiber, abjectly, if indeed it represents your sincere feelings. Craven, slunking shithead, creeping around in the dark to try like hell to ruin the lives of people you aren't qualified nor empowered to judge? Yes sir: you definitely paint yourself, in this case. With your history of uncontrollable lying, though, I don't necessarily feel empowered, yet, to make an open call to action - just saying, OG, I would looooove to hear you got beaten badly enough to need a flashy ride to Reno, namsayin? Not nearly as many pacifists hanging around BRC, compared to the perceptions of some.

                            SIGH! Time was one could count on swift local justice in these matters. People are so timid and obeisant to false and unhealthful authority figures these days. That, alone, is a huge source of my initial disillusionment with the failed promise of BRC. Anyhow.


                            Get clear in yourself and address this dysfunctional stupid whining, sir. You are cracking up. Your behavior is extremely undignified. You aren't invisible.
                            • Re: fetid sack

                              Thu, March 3, 2011 - 10:45 AM
                              Once again, Loki makes some very accurate observations.

                              However, I disagree about you ratting out the little rat. Don't sic the Mods on him just yet. He's too funny to lose.

                              I suggest that we make book on how long it takes him to crack.

                              He's not far, and I say that he melts down completely, in five days.

                              Maybe less, if his hormones really kick in.
                              • Re: fetid sack

                                Fri, March 4, 2011 - 3:42 AM
                                The real question is, how long will it take for me to fall asleep in mid-post, replying to this nonsense. The answer is "not much longer". We've been going around and around, with me pointing to where you lied, and you hoping that if you repeat yourself enough with enough of an attitude, that you'll be able to get people to not see something that is right there, right in front of them.

                                I know that there are people dishonest, cowardly or suggestible enough to let themselves be manipulated in the way you're trying to manipulate your audience at this moment, because I've run into them before. You're welcome to them. Theirs is the company by which you will so rightly be judged, and it's company that I don't want.
                            • Re: fetid sack

                              Fri, March 4, 2011 - 3:47 AM
                              "With your history of uncontrollable lying, though,"

                              Look who's talking. See:

                              boringman.tribe.net/thread/5...9c5063d1b

                              I've been truthful throughout. I'm not, however, going to take responsibility for the words that you choose to put into my mouth, which, as I show in the post I've just linked to, is what you've been doing.
                              • Re: fetid sack

                                Fri, March 4, 2011 - 4:10 AM
                                And with that, we're done, at least in this discussion. I'll see what you posted elsewhere, and wrap this up. Ah, yes. You had something to share in that silkscreening discussion that you decided to disrupt.

                                bm.tribe.net/thread/be13...02fdf1b782d1

                                beginning with one of your more recent lies about what I wrote, which had me taking photos of naked women without their knowledge. You are, indeed, all class

                                bm.tribe.net/thread/be13...d65973267c45

                                and anybody looking in, right now, can see that for himself.
                                • Re: fetid sack

                                  Fri, March 4, 2011 - 9:29 PM
                                  >>>>>in that silkscreening discussion that you decided to disrupt.<<<<

                                  Hey! Loki didn't disrupt that thread. I did. At least, that's what HaT accused me of, at the time.

                                  What a liar. If he's willing to lie about something like this, what other, darker things does he lie about?

                                  He has crushed all my faith in angry,young perverts.

                                  I hope your happy, little mister.
                              • Re: fetid sack

                                Fri, March 4, 2011 - 4:12 AM
                                So, you've never killed anybody? What is it that you've been truthful about, again? Which storyline is the official one?

                                When did I accuse you of photographing anyone, ever?


                                What exactly do you mean when you use the word "truthful"? It seems that we may have conflicting ideas about that word's intended meaning. Mine is the staid, traditional definition. Are you familiar with that use of the term?
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 12:56 PM
    as a side note: not every vehicle with a dpw sticker or insignia on it is dpw... there are lots of ppl out there with them that either never were, or are not any more.

    there are even more people who claim to be dpw because they think it means the can get away with something. big mistake when someone tells me they are dpw and they aren't. i work with the volunteer coordinators and make all the laminates... am pretty sure who is and isn't.

    to my knowledge, there is not a "cammo-painted saab" in our fleet or among our current staff or volunteers...
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Sat, September 11, 2004 - 1:07 PM

      well then someone needs to enforce who has DPW stickers. i have the picture of that saab in my head and it's clearly got the sticker on it. change the sticker each year for fuck's sake! just changing the color range could solve so many problems! an immense amount of hassle and potential implosion of DPW/the event might be prevented. it seems crazy to me that, apparently, anyone can run around under the vehicular badge of your organization and seriously besmirch the reputation. given who i know who is REAL DPW, like jack trash in my camp last year, i find it reasonable that there are far fewer bad eggs who are actually still in the organization.

      if people were walking around in gASSo shirts causing mayhem and violence you can bet we'd fix the probelm.
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:21 PM
    "... grants them special rights and privliges (driving, ins and outs, admission, services, ability to land grab before the event) needs to be dismantled"

    Speaking of land grab, what was up with the DPW at 7:30 and earth? a huge tract of primo land, that was unsused by anything or anybody (all but one or two trailers that is) all week long?

    I can agree, the DPW does good things, but the ability to hide bad apples within the ranks need to be addressed, the number of bad stories, physical abuses, verbal abuses, actual physical assaults, thefts, have gone on too long.

    DPW does not own the city.


    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:28 PM
      to be honest, that was a big ole, how do you say... clusterfuck? at one point it was to be a big dpw camp, then something went awry late this summer and by the time participants started showing up, it had splintered off into many other locations, leaving only a handful of folks there...
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:34 PM
        along with their "dogs"....not to mention their actual live dogs, one of which was walking along the streets with no leash, growling at people, teeth bared...i'm glad that no one was bitten....

        i also really enjoyed the "stay the fuck out, BITCH!!" sign....a real treat
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:41 PM
        Then like other camps with too much space, they should have given it up on Tuesday, to other campers. But who would want to cross their fence? CF or not.. It puts a bad taste in my mouth to walk by what amounted to a "RESERVED" sign at that location.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:33 PM
      > Speaking of land grab, what was up with the DPW at 7:30 and earth? a huge tract of primo land, that was unsused by anything or anybody (all but one or two trailers that is) all week long? <

      It's considered a reward for showing up two months before the event begins, banging fence all day, and living in a trailer park in Gerlach at night. That's why we give them beer, too.

      You may not agree with it, but that camp was hardly the only one (DPW or not) on "primo" land that appeared to be doing virtually nothing with it. This year had more vast stretches of dark Esplanade than I can ever remember seeing before.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:28 PM
        That was the DPW Ghetto. Reserved for DPW who wanted to move in closer from their other camp, but not too many did, with the exception of the Fabulous Mars clan. So they had their own real estate. It wasn't intended to be so vacant but that's the way it happened.
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:28 PM
    i don't believe a thing about smiles by the way.....
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:37 PM
      why do the dpw get to bring their dogs?
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:42 PM
        because many dpw folks live here for more than a month and it is a reasonable and fair benefit to allow them to bring their dogs, as long as they are well socialized and current on all their shots. those that are not are sent home.

        the dogs, i mean.

        i cannot vouch that all my brethren have had their shots. :)
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:43 PM
        I agree whole heartedly, at least keep them in the camp. It was just another way of thumbing their noses at everbody else to walk down the street w/ their dogs.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:47 PM
          i'm mostly concerned with the dog who was walking around the open roads with no leash...there was noone in their camp to keep an eye on it, and i'm not exagerating when i say, it looked pretty damned mean.....i love dogs, and was going nowhere near this one....i'm not into being fearful of walking up the steet to my camp....
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:56 PM
            do you know for a fact that it was one of their dogs? all of the dpw dogs have very distinctive tags on them that have the dog and owner's picture & name and playa address on them.

            most of the dpw dogs stay very close to their owners. those that don't tend to get tethered to camp for their own safety. in years past we tried a kennel on the ranch for those dogs, am not sure why it did not happen this year.

            however, every year participants sneak their dogs into the event. why? i don't know, maybe they hate their dogs. because unless the dog is accustomed to: the loud noise; the playa that completely eliminates their ability to smell and thus recognize anything or anyone; the massive amounts of confusing looking people... that is going to be one miserable animal. and then of course there are those who get away from their owners and we find them in the weeks following - if not dead, dehydrated or otherwise severely injured. there is no joy in finding a dying dog on the playa. it's horrible, and we hate it, and that's why they are generally not allowed.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:57 PM
              Then be an example. Dont bring your dogs into the city. Keep then in camp at least.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Sat, September 11, 2004 - 1:18 PM

                eh, if someone is volunteeering to build the city for two months, let 'em bring their dog. it's not feasable/reasonable to expect volunteers to have to kennel them, and it sounds like there is a good process in place for making that work for the people and the dogs. if anyone knows how to deal with dogs out there it's people who spend one fifth of their year, or more, in that environment. the dogs rule in BRC is because people with no idea what they are in for were bringing their dogs and then completely fucking up.

                to me this is a non-issue. given how fucking hard they work, i wholeheartedly support DPW having perks. they deserve perks. what bothers me is when it's abused, or when people (with or without perks) abuse others.

                it's a subtle thing. if i built the city, i'd feel ownership of it. but i like to think i would feel that in a proud way, rather than an arrogant one. it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that the worst abusers in this organization were the ones who did the least amount of work, or perhaps even hung about the periphery and aren't in/are no longer in DPW. still, at the very least, this is showing that DPW ought to work to control who moves about the city under their flag.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Tue, September 14, 2004 - 11:13 PM
                Um... Remember that the majority of DPW are VOLUNTEERS? Kenneling a dog would be a minimum of $15/day... multiply that by (lets see... 45 days prior to the event, 9 days of the event and...we'll say 21 days after the event for clean-up...) so 75 days times $15/day... $1125.00. Yeah Right. Some people HAVE to bring the dog.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 1:59 PM
              i don't understand why any of them were there, but the one i'm talking about was about 100 feet away from the other 3 or 4 who were teathered inside the dpw white trash lot....it seemed pretty obvious that it was protecting it's home....and not too pleased about it....
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:02 PM
                no clue. again, do you know for sure it belonged there? did you notify a ranger?

                and your "dpw white trash lot" comment speaks miles about your attitude on the matter to begin with.
                • Re: DPW abuses

                  Fri, September 10, 2004 - 5:46 PM
                  Wow, you're actually going to argue that it isn't a White Trash Lot?!?
                  That place looked as though someone abandonded it weeks ago, and people started dumping their trash/burnables there.
                  If you're going to pick out things to argue about pick 'em better babe.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:08 PM
                Are you sure it wasn't just going "Hey, there's some other dogs there. Maybe I can get a dog thing going on here"? Seems kind of weird that they would take care to leash the other ones and let one real mean one run around...

                And "white trash lot"? Please....
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:54 PM
                hey naomi, if it was such a bother to you why didn't you move somewhere else rather than stay there to complain. there's lots of space. and i had my dog there. i left my dog for the 2.5 months i worked out there last year and got i a car accident and was without my dog for 6 months. i've had her by my side for 8 years. not to mention we give up our regular lives to go out there and help make something for you to enjoy. my dog is probably more loved and well behaved than you ever have been. now can you complain more about my camp please. i was working too much to sit around there and witness everything....
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:06 PM
            Proud to have worked with DPW. I'd sleep and have slept next to them at their worst (loudville!).

            They can steal my beer anytime.

            They build BM. No DPW assholes, no hippie love fest.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:30 PM
              DPW was cool with me. We had 7 kegs less than a block away, and they were very careful to make sure that they never drank too much at time, because I told them that if they did I'd yank that right. They were very courteous and very thankful to get freshly poured guinness on the playa.

              They borrowed tools from me: returned them promptly and cleaner than when they went out.

              The dog tape was actually not bad once the Deep End started up. Seems a backbeat can make many things better.

              We fed a couple of them. They brought us water to help do the dishes.

              As with everything out on the playa, twenty people can have the same experiences and make something different out of it.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 3:38 PM
              "They build BM"


              that is utter bullshit and I have the photos to prove it

              I had a good DPW interaction year, met some real sweethearts. Regardless, they don't build BM. We all do (or at least the ones building that is. If ya know what I mean).
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Tue, September 14, 2004 - 11:30 PM
                Really... Photo's to prove it? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is?

                You certainly weren't out there pounding stakes for the 5+ miles of trash fence, road markers, street signs, and gate. Nor were you surveying the land to map out what goes where. You didn't help build the Cafe, or the Man, or the Temple. You weren't out there in 120 degree duststorms helping artists put up their ill-designed pieces, and then on call 24-7 during the event in case something happened to it and it needed to be fixed. I don't recall seeing you at the Man at 2am on Friday night taking down "art" for the artists who did not want to see their stuff burned. No, that was the voulunteers of DPW.

                So tell me stuart, what do you have pictures of?

                Who do you think would continue to show up to a "Burning Man" with no Burning "Man"?
                • Re: DPW abuses

                  Wed, September 15, 2004 - 9:59 AM
                  Despite being a "disgruntled ex employee" I have to agree. IMHO every member of the DPW SHOULD be paid-at least minmimum wage- BM can afford it and its not just some little vacation escapism for them its real hard work for monthys of time when they aren't making any other money and most of these kids aren't exactly finincially stable to begin with. Who do think
                  did all the work? Elves? besides which paid employees are more accountable for their actions, they abuse their perks and the citizens of BRC and they're fired end of story. You can't fire volenteers or hold the nearly as accountable. The LLC wants to have its cake and eat it too, its up to all of you to decide wiether or not thats acceptable.

        • Unsu...
           

          Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 2:07 PM
          One of the staff, I don't know if he was dpw or not, but a good guy and longtime friend, brought his dog by to visit us in our camp. He needed some time out away from camp. It was like a drive by petting zoo who was just as happy to see us as we were to see him. He stayed on his leash and he spent his time going from person to person getting love. I'm fine with good dogs and responsible parenting, but one scary dog on the loose is a really bad scene. Plus loose dogs leave poopmoop.
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 3:19 PM
    I've camped with a handful of DPW peeps and they've all been great folks. Yes, there is a bit of a surly vibe, but for the most part it's all in harmless fun. Let's not condemn the whole lot because of a few assholes.

    We had a couple of our DPW friends over for dinner this year and heard about some of the shit that was going on. They were as appalled as anyone and were happy to report that a couple of the bad elements had been sent packing.

    As a few people noted earlier, these guys really help make BRC -- center camp, Artica, the Man, and on and on. Additionally, there are countless stories like the ones Clint told about how DPW *saved the fucking day* for this theme camp or that when they found themselves up a creek without the right materials or tools. Sure there are a few jackasses. Find 'em. Dump 'em. But don't paint everyone in DPW with the same brush, just because it's easier to judge the whole group than pick out the bad ones. Or if you're going to lump everyone together, why stop at DPW? Why not condemn all Burners? Oh yeah, 'cause that net would catch you too.

    r.m.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 3:43 PM
      Roger,

      I think what is being said, is the system as it currently stands, allows the bad apples the ability to hide with in the cover of "being DPW". Being punched in the nose, after being invited to hop on an art is not "saving the day". Nor is haveing a beer tossed on you for walking across the street too slowly, nor is having your camp broken into, and your things stolen.

      Those are the extreme behaviors that have people totally up in arms about the DPW. not the bullhorns, not the "reserved but not used" land grabs, not the recorded dogs, not even the pet dogs on the playa. I think when you go back to the original post, the poster even says, there are good people in the DPW. But also that there are many negative. And when a DPW person does something asshole-ish in a DPW car, under the guise of being DPW, then of course all that asshole feelings go back to DPW as a whole. If that person did that assholeish behavior on their own, not under the guise of being DPW, then it wouldnt go back to upon the DPW as a whole.

      Personally, I feel that if anybody owes anybody a beer, then its the DPW that owes me, the paying ticket holder, a beer, for my money (and the 35,000 like me) paid them to be there.

      I can, and do, go to the desert with out them. But they can not build a city without me.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 3:52 PM
      Read carefully. Nobody ever said "all" except to say "they're all great folks" Everyone has been very careful to specify "some assholes" and to give thanks to that majority who aren't assholes.

      If people can't voice their concerns about "some" without being misread and accused of complaining about "all" then we have an end of positive progress.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:08 PM
        </i>so, this is it. this is the call. end DPW. fire them all, and start over, weed out the violent, crazy, abusive fucks. yeah, this tirade will make me unpopular, perhaps a target, but what the fuck, DMV already hates me, why not DPW too. but at least DMV has standards, articulated process, oversight, evaluation and evolution, and of course don't go around attacking people!
        <i>

        kinda looks like "all" to me.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:08 PM
          i hate that stupidhtmltagsdon'tworkhere thing. btw. :)
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:24 PM
            Um, he said get rid of them all and start over, only letting back in the people who are not the "bad" people he is referring to. He did not say that they are "all bad".
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:29 PM
              Sure, if you want to be really nit-picky about it.

              "Not all black people are criminals... in fact, some of my CLOSEST FRIENDS are BLACK PEOPLE."
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: DPW abuses

                Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:31 PM
                who decides who a "bad" person is? is it the classist yuppies on this thread? if so, good luck getting a crew together who can get the job done.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Sat, September 11, 2004 - 1:24 PM

          squeak, take the whole post in context. my call was that the organization is broken because it seems to allow this stuff to happen despite there being a lot of good within. dismantle it and *rebuild it*. *weed out* the problems.

          the problems have been there so long that it may not be fixed unless it's rebuilt from scratch. doesn't seem like any progress forward has been made over the years.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: DPW abuses

            Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:32 PM
            what the fuck do you know about the organization? have you ever met the managers face to face? worked with the crew?

            come out for a work weekend. put in some hours, then you can bitch about it or claim to know what the problems are. until then you are just an arrogant fucktard.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:33 PM
              and ask any of the oldschool workers, they will tell you about the progress that has been made. we are way kinder and gentler than they were before.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:14 PM
        Yeah, i agree with Jeff. And even with my little bitchfest about DPW eariler and general un liking for them this year, I still know that there are plenty of good people in DPW who are mostly likely none too happy being tagged with a bad reputation some of their brethen have created for themselves.
        I just hope that they can question , confront and find solutions or resolution with in the group themselves.

        I am curious if any of the BM uppity ups have any idea that this is brewing through the participant population??

        This has been a interesting thread.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:18 PM
        Jeff, have you actually been reading this thread? Not a single person has said "they're all great folks," even the people in DPW aren't silly enough to say that.

        And plenty of people have generalized the bad actions of a few DPWers into the behavior of the group as a whole. Which is not cool, and is why some of us (and I am not DPW, btw) are getting a little riled up when we defend them.

        Of course people should voice their concerns. That's fucking obvious. This is a public forum and people tend to do that. Which is why it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone when the other side of the debate stands up to take their turn. Otherwise you're just shouting people down from a soapbox.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:30 PM
          >they were all really nice and fun to hang with. All good people.

          Roger, who I was replying to said:
          > I've camped with a handful of DPW peeps and they've all been great folks.

          Most of the people who have condemned some of the DPW have in their same posts defended them and pointed out the many positive things they do.

          I'm just saying don't turn this into something about "you said 'all' and here's an exception, so we don't have to listen" situation.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 4:35 PM
      Personally I could do without Center Camp, and Artica. Then again I neither drink coffee or buy ice.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 5:02 PM
        without artica? think of how bad the portos would get on... say, thursday, after a couple thousand people get food poisoning from eating questionable food out of their warm coolers...
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Fri, September 10, 2004 - 5:04 PM
          dry ice

          -e
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 5:27 PM
            or food which doesn't require ice. mutiple coolers (one which isn't opened until later in the week) with block ice work well too.

            thousands of people got along in the desert for a week or more just fine before the ice sales in center camp started. i'm all for helping out the little kiddies and all that and it's not a bad political move with the locals. it still seems to fly in the face of confronting your own survival and no commerce though.

            of course i finally broke down and bought ice for the first time last year since i really don't care anymore.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Fri, September 10, 2004 - 5:36 PM
            it's funny because you think some tribe thread is going to make a difference....hehehehehe......
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 6:30 PM
              who thinks a tribe thread will make a difference about what? are we talking about ice sales now (which is kinda bogus, but not that big a deal), or whether some of your agro participant bashing, camp looting DPW asses get 86ed?

              on either issue, i don't really give a shit.
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:18 PM
              uh, here's a question-

              amybody ever find out what happened to the supposed dpw guy who ran his car into the dmv in '02?

              i've got some great photos of myself and a friend posing nude on that car.

              heh.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:34 PM
              "it's funny because you think some tribe thread is going to make a difference....hehehehehe...... "

              word
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Fri, September 10, 2004 - 9:38 PM
        without Arctica... then I'd be out of a playa job..... have to go back to Hanging lanterns or something......
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Fri, September 10, 2004 - 7:40 PM
    this is a real bumer to hear about. i worked my ass off for DPW this year and feel like everyone i worked with had the decency and dignity not to pull shit like this. i pray no one i know is resonsible for this kind of behavior. i devoted every ounce of my energy this year on playa to educating the public how to be a part of the community and not behave like a yahoo. i hope we dont hear stories like this again.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: DPW abuses

      Fri, September 10, 2004 - 9:09 PM
      I thought the DPW behaved better overall in general this year. I didn't see anything out of line like I saw last year. Sure, a scowling face while driving 8 mph through town here and there, but not at all like years before.

      Not that it's justified, but I can see why some of the workers turn sour. I had many moments of pride and gratitude for the event during the week. I even awoke with tears of gratitude on burn morning. But why tears? I guess I sort of had a little loss around wanting to see more gratitude from more people about this event. Now that I know that, I can let that go. But it does sort of amaze me how complainy and nit-picky people get about some of the details. This used to be an Everyone For Themself survival campout where we had a huge bonfire and you might get burned or a hot pokey stick might fling into your tent.

      That first year this event was in the Black Rock Desert, I catered for the building crew. I had to break-in to the RV where lunch was being stored because the owner went off shooting and didn't trust any of us with his vehicle. Things are SOOO much more cush now, and sometimes, when I haven't eaten enough and I'm a bit thirsty out there - all I see are a bunch of whiny snivelling brats going "wah, the porta-potties are DIRTY and DPW is MEAN, wah!! boo-hoo. I'm glad I brought my little foo-foo kitty doll backpack to comfort me. This eee sux. Where's the glowstick stand?" We take so much for granted now.

      But I still think it's the best god damn thing to do in the entire whirled and I wouldn't miss it ever (unless I had an all expenses paid trip to the French Riviera with tons of good clean dirty hot kinky sex, hot baths and extra naps). Perspective is everything.

      "i worked my ass off for DPW this year and feel like everyone i worked with had the decency and dignity not to pull shit like this. [,,,] i devoted every ounce of my energy this year on playa to educating the public how to be a part of the community and not behave like a yahoo."

      dewd, you're name is 'Spaz'...btw, are you the same Spaz who was driving around in a handicap golf cart offering unsolicited advice with a bullhorn? If so, I loved that part about how we had to have our ticket stubs out to watch the burn. That still cracks me up. hah!
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Sat, September 11, 2004 - 1:29 AM
        The only first hand experience I had with a DPW guy was CHIRP!!!!

        Tuesday at sunrise and for 3 hours he yelled "CHIRP" at the top of his lungs, over and over and over. A campmate recorded 45 minutes of it. The only reason Chirp didn't get the shit beat out of him was the BRC Ranger standing guard.
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Sat, September 11, 2004 - 2:08 PM
    The org had better reign this stuff in or be liable in a lawsuit. Regardless of what it says on the ticket, if one of their staff punches a customer while on duty, the org can expect to be sued successfully. And the damages will be much worse if it has been known for a while that abuses are ongoing.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: DPW abuses

      Sun, September 12, 2004 - 4:47 PM
      oh, so you concider people who go to bm "customers?"
      Sounds like bait material to me.
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Sun, September 12, 2004 - 6:42 PM
        they pay money for a product- even if they see that product as a community or idea. legaly speaking the liability is quite large-thats prolly the one thing that would spur the LLC to act actually.
        The llc could use to lose a lawsuit on the issue. it wouldn't kill BM at all just smack them upside the head for being such blinderized numbnuts about it. IMHO.
        Congrats on your new pair bonding BTW! Sorry i couldn't be there.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Sun, September 12, 2004 - 8:04 PM
          The though of BMorg modifiying its operations to avoid liability issues is horrifying to me. Can you say Dysneyland.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Sun, September 12, 2004 - 8:53 PM
            exactly what do you think a LLC is designed to do????
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Sun, September 12, 2004 - 9:27 PM
              Not-for-profit event NOW!

              Burning Ma'am!
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Mon, September 13, 2004 - 2:38 PM
                LLC = Limited Liability Corporation

                even a nonprofit would have to deal with liability issues.
                • Re: DPW abuses

                  Mon, September 20, 2004 - 5:21 AM
                  I believe (I'm not a lawyer and apparently neither are you) that "Limited Liability" in this case means that they can't take money from Larry's bank account if the company goes bankrupt... not that they're somehow magically shielded from liability for other things.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Mon, September 20, 2004 - 9:28 AM
                    no, i'm not a lawyer (did you infer that i thought i was? i hope not.)

                    i was simply responding to this comment:

                    >The thought of BMorg modifiying its operations to avoid >liability issues is horrifying to me. Can you say Dysneyland.

                    when an LLC is formed, it *is* a way to "modify operations" to avoid liability issues... not all, but it protects assets and personal liability exposure. and should there be a lawsuit, then it is against the LLC, not the individuals (unless the individuals are criminally chargeable, i would assume).

                    correct?
            • Re: DPW abuses

              Sun, September 12, 2004 - 9:33 PM
              I hate this type of abuse by morons that seem to think they can prey on the week. I know for one that me and my crew are on the lookout for this type of shit. We feel very vigilant about how our peeps are treated and will retaliate in kind. If there is an issue I say resolve it there and then with a few good peeps. They are not in charge and should not be allowed by anyone to continue this behavior.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Sun, September 12, 2004 - 9:34 PM
                By the way. 4 Flat tires on DPW vehicles will keep them from rollin.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: DPW abuses

                  Sun, September 12, 2004 - 10:12 PM
                  I had in incident with some low level punks who worked for DPW a few days before the event officially started this year. I've never had any negative encounters at Burning Man before (I’ve been attending since 1998), not with DPW or anyone else until this year. And to be fair, I did have other positive encounters with DPW during the event. Anyway, this crew pulled up on their Tiki-bar-half-VW-car. They drove by my camp at 3:30 in the morning, totally drunk, making a ton of noise, and decided they'd come by to insult & threaten me, then damage my property and steal my stuff. They said it was "just a game," and I was an asshole if I didn't just shut up and let them play their game. The incident degenerated into a small shoving match (they were trying to steal my personal flag which took me a long time to make and mount). I pointed out to them that just as fucking someone without his/her consent amounted to rape, so did taking someone's property without his/her consent amount to theft. This argument only lead to further threats and insults from them. The following day I turned them in to the Rangers, and the incident went right to the top of the Rangers, the DPW, and a few other departments. All parties involved were identified, and I was quickly assured by all department heads that I would henceforth be left alone (which was true, even though an apology would have been great, I knew that was never going to happen). I was very happy with the serious response I received from BMorg in this instance. Furthermore, I wouldn’t necessarily generalize about DPW based on my experience. However, I too found that dog fight broadcast to be really annoying (it was a block down the street, high volume, and relentless). It didn’t seem to inspire positive energy, which is what I like to believe defines Burning Man, rather than negative energy intended to piss people off. The crew that accosted me seemed to think stealing, insulting, and threatening didn’t conflict at all with creating a good vibe at the event, in fact, they thought I was creating bad energy because I didn’t like them damaging and stealing my property, and how dare I actually defend myself and my camp. I found this fundamentally shitty and negative attitude on their part very hard to accept, and it ruined my Burning Man experience for at least 24 hours.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Sun, September 12, 2004 - 10:41 PM
            Thats been the case since 1996. The LLC has sustained several lawsuits since and paid out at least one(through the insurence company i believe). Liability has been a MAJOR issue for the LLC.
            While I have no idea whats going on with it I do know that as of last June there was one in process against the LLC for the burn incident/sexual harrasment that i wrote about in Piss Clear. Will Roger isn't the plaintiff I don't think, rather its the LLC for knowingly having an abusive and sometimes dangerous supervisor in one of its depts(due to the illness known as alcoholism, again I should remind everyone that Will Roger is not an evil man and I'd imagine is currently a very sober non drinking alcoholic. Still i believe the 2001 axcidental death of a dpw worker was an avoidable axcident due to poor management including my own as i was a DPW manager at the time and despite the majority of dedicated hard working and wonderful DPW workers the abuses of a few have had a blind eye turned to them for years. They go overboard and nothing justifies the incidents of assault or theft. But even if BM were sued silly it would still happen, there's way too much money involved for too may groups for it not too. Pershing and Walshoe cops make bank on OT, Gerlach is getting nicely(and aproprietly) subsidized, BLM makes its pretty penny and of course so does Mr.Close not to mention all the other people and services that the event pays.It is and has been operating as a legal corporation since 1997 and a profitable one for the last few years.Not all that money has gone back into the event either-noone's got a Swiss bank account but plenty of people profit. Where there's money theres lawyers.
            It never was a a viable all volenteer thing, before BM could pay anyone it was pretty much subsidized by .com money and many people shoveling thousands and thousands of dollers out of their own pockets(and many of the early bankrollers,pre 96, never got it back but they didn't expect to either.)
            Anyway they've been hyper liabilty concious for years now and some people wiether or not they actually were really DPW(though some definitly were)are very much a legal liability at this point.
            Damn i'm glad I'm out.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Mon, September 13, 2004 - 8:00 AM
              Tons of people are capable of functioning well when they're wasted. I used to do it all the time when I waited tables. Management never said anything to me because I was still the 2nd top wait person for the store.

              With a graduate degree under my belt, would I have been waiting tables if I weren't a serious alcoholic? Probably not, I probably would have been working some straight, less fun job but making more money.

              I guess my point is that sometimes you get unique talent that also has a drug or alcohol problem. Pointing fingers and saying it should NEVER be tolerated belies a lack of understanding of the situation.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Mon, September 13, 2004 - 12:14 PM
                zah? Um ya, whatever, when it couses severe hazard to people's lives it is never acceptable. Niether can you you use it to rationalize theft and assault. I mean i've worked on a buzz too- particularly at BM but I didn't couse anyone damage or death either, The alcoholic in question in my artical didn't kill anyone but that was just a matter of pure luck, i worked with the guy for 9 years you gonna tell me you know more about the situaction? That would be a pretty typicol BM "participant" style thing to do if you ask me. And thats also a prime example of how DPW can so easily cop an attitude. They deserve an attitude, that doesn't for a second forgive assault and theft though.
                If i were in control i'd straight up dog trot peeps off the playa for that no excuses,good worker or not, here's $50 and a ride to reno thanks for playing , See ya! I'd imagine the bulk of even my biggest detracters on the DPW managment council would agree with that...well perhaps not but they damn well should.
                Hey y'all are the community right? You pay their salery- y'all can stand up tell them(the LLC) or just be sheep like victims and whine, its all you. In fact BM in generaql is all you right?
                So......(er...hello?!)
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: DPW abuses

                  Mon, September 13, 2004 - 12:23 PM
                  It's asking a lot of the reader to wade through your poorly written compositions. I wouldn't say anything except, well, you have designated that you're a journalist, right?

                  I think you probably have good points to make but they are occluded by your inattention to writing conventions.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Mon, September 13, 2004 - 12:40 PM
                    way to use big words!:P

                    for all those who dont have as eminent a lexicon as Harriet, dictionary.com is a good place to enable one's self to compose a more verbose translation of her text.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Mon, September 13, 2004 - 2:22 PM
                    Geez Harriet, maybe you should get a job with the Bush or Kerry campaigns!

                    Hands down the biggest asshole I have ever met at Burning Man was Will Roger when he was drunk. I sure hope he's cleaned up his act, because the prick I met shouldn't be in any position of responsibility.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Mon, September 13, 2004 - 2:33 PM
                    Sorry Harriet, not all of us are office workers or english majors or have to write daily.(not assuming you fall under any of those catagories) I am no jurnalist, I'm a stagehand by trade. I'm just someone who'se worked as a DPW manager for 9 years and wrote the artical in piss clear that was mentioned further up in the thread. My spelling is also often atrocious. Despite that I believe I have a little more backround info then most of y'all on this subject
                    Picking apart grammer and syntax is a great way to avoid the subject. Just becouse something isn't printed on glossy paper doesn't invalidate it.(so to speak)
                    Were you seriously trieng to rationalize alcoholism and being drunk on the job? Driving forklifts (or art cars) is a wee bit more irresponcible and dangerous to do drunk then waiting tables.Being fucked up is also no excuse for assault or theft(and making the good DPW workers look bad, not to mention Death Guild which had nothing to do with any of this) No offence but you seemed to be saying that that was acceptable.
                    Besides which I don't think I write THAT poorly compositionaly, but of course you're entitled to your opinion.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: DPW abuses

                Sat, December 2, 2006 - 3:36 PM
                haven't you heard about our after 5 rule. and we *always* follow the rules.
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Mon, September 13, 2004 - 11:11 AM
            where have you been?
            • Unsu...
               

              All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

              Mon, September 13, 2004 - 8:08 PM
              Click on link for self-punishment!

              All others, stay away!


              www.4440.com/kiss/porn/htm
              • Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                Tue, September 14, 2004 - 5:04 PM
                Congratulations, Asshole. My, how proud you must be that you can spread a virus. Golly, you are one smart fellah, seeing as you can take advantage of a conversation to try and ruin people's careers.
                Myself, I am just filled with admiration for DPW, now that I see what articulate, thoughtful folks you represent. My, my, your buddies must be so PROUD of you!!!
                • Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                  Tue, September 14, 2004 - 7:43 PM
                  Please be specific if that link leads to a virus.
                  People should know. Now if anyone out there knows the names and e-mails of people that they know without doubt participated in theft and assault while representing the DPW feel free to post it and then people can tell them directly what they think. I suggest people on E-playa should make noise too-(BM website) just check your facts first ok?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                    Tue, September 14, 2004 - 8:39 PM
                    Clicking on that link causes a series of popups that scream "Gay Porn"! until you reboot the machine.
                    Just the sort of childish crap one would expect from a twit who can't argue their point. If this is a sample of the DPW representatives, then I'm not surprized "citizens" are so upset. Frankly, if these are the type of people that it takes to build the city, I'd rather not have roads into the playa.
                    • Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                      Tue, September 14, 2004 - 9:14 PM
                      I understand the Playa (including it’s DPW shenanigans) can be seen as a kind of “experimental world”.

                      Here is the story of another experimental world which went bad, and ended up in the recycle bin:
                      home.comcast.net/~non777/life.swf

                      (This link is free of viruses, microbes, bugs, worms and smut!)
                      • Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                        Wed, September 15, 2004 - 12:10 AM
                        volunteer means no pay, no reward.

                        I'd advise not volunteering for something you don't do for pure love.

                        And while DPW has a very important function, it's somewhat of a chicken and egg question. But i feel that if roads weren't laid out, we'd probably manage to soldier on through the chaos. I'm pretty sure burners could handle a little chaos.

                        And just my view, but the DPW responses on this thread are doing very little to help me see their side.

                        Or want to.
                        • Re: All BAD DPW PEOPLE!!!

                          Wed, September 15, 2004 - 12:30 AM
                          > And just my view, but the DPW responses on this thread are doing very little to help me see their side. <

                          I'm surprised you can even read the text on your screen through all the jumping to conclusions and finger pointing going on in this thread.
  • Re: DPW abuses

    Tue, September 14, 2004 - 11:54 PM
    Um...

    1. "a pair of DPW cars from death guild"

    Death Guild IS NOT DPW

    DPW IS NOT Death Guild

    2. "the worst vibes, i experience in BRC come from DPW people, or people affiliated enough to have a sticker, to drive a DPW car around."

    ANYBODY can get a sticker made with the DPW logo and stick it onto their car. ANYBODY.

    3. "it's not really possible to tell if the car with the sticker is really being driven by a DPW person or it's just another death guild person out there taking a break from doing the same exact thing they have been doing for seven years now."

    Actually, the reflective staff stckers were quite clear this year. They said "STAFF" They said "DPW" and they had a license number.
    • Re: DPW abuses

      Wed, September 15, 2004 - 7:58 AM
      What IS death guild?
      • Re: DPW abuses

        Wed, September 15, 2004 - 8:56 AM
        Death Guild, also referred to as Thunderdome, is the Theme Camp that for several (at least 4 since I've been going) years sets up a large geodesic dome on the Esplanade and hosts fights using foam covered bats, the fighters are suspended from the dome and swing back and forth trying to beat their opponents.

        It's all very a la Mad Max (think the sequel of the same name)

        daMongolian
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Wed, September 15, 2004 - 8:59 AM
          A semi secret society dedicated to burner assisted suicide.. kinda like cost soul mate exchange... you sign up for an "accident" and they provide.... very very hush hush tough.
        • Re: DPW abuses

          Wed, September 15, 2004 - 9:10 AM
          2 cents:

          We had an asshole that jumped on the Lamp Lighter truck, then went and punched someone, too- but he *sure* the fuck wasn't one of "ours"!

          (And it wasn't the night we had a great DPW guy driving around with us, making like a Satanic "tour guide" with a bullhorn... <grin>)
          • Re: DPW abuses

            Wed, September 15, 2004 - 9:16 AM
            Anf by the way- I'm gonna exercise and get big an' strong, so when I grow up I can be DPW too! (not even being facetious)

            Yeah, people have bad experiences with them- or people masquerading as them for attention- but all the asswipes *I* saw or dealt with at all were just regular fucks... Every DPW person I saw or dealt with at all was either being actively nice or just going on about their business... For instance, after all the "horror stories," I didn't expect to be treated that nicely by the first DPW guy I talked to, while I was doing a (virgin-year) Greeter shift... Frankly, if *I* had been a DPW guy towing some dude whose bus had broken down before he even got there, and some dressed-up dipshit <blush> tried to give *me* a packet and a map, well, I might not have been that patient! <grin>
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: DPW abuses

              Wed, September 15, 2004 - 10:05 AM
              My prank with the pop-up link was to lighten the mood. Yes it was childish. Yes I'm an asshole cause I knew you couldn't stay away despite the fact I warned "Only bad DPW!" twice (stupid and little sense of humor).

              As far as those who exaggerating that joke into losing a job or calling it a virus. That gives me a clue to the type of person you are. I doubt many of you know the sacrifices the members of DPW and BMorg do on your behalf. Tim Simpson, though I don't agree with some of what he says, I have respect for because he is one of those people.

              They work year round for the event to make it possible for all you fun loving people to gather there once a year. It's more than a profit company, it's a community that includes all of us. Does Disney ask for your opinion every year?

              Someone said that BM would happen even if BM org wasn't there. No. No it wouldn't be the same. All those regional wouldn't have happened. There would be no year round community that teaches how to do it right.



              The staff deals with the locals, several government agencies including law enforcement, the media and the general public. Sounds like a bunch of hippie luv fun! No?

              DPW is mostly volunteer. Why do they come? Perhaps they just such assholes that they give their sweat, blood, time and money so they can beat you up. Or they love the event and all it brings enough to put up with the environment, hard work and staff abuses, year after year. Hi. I'm (insert name here) and I'm a DPW addict.

              So by the time the event begins. A lot of DPW are exhausted and burnt-out. Does that give them an excuse to assault someone. No. But next time you see some surly, sun burnt person with a bull horn giving you shit and saying they built this town, perhaps you should give them wide birth when they swagger through center camp.

              I don't work for the Org. I work for the Man. I work for you.
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Wed, September 15, 2004 - 11:31 AM
                hey... i love the dpw... i appreciate all their work and understand their value and sense of ownership felt by putting in all that labor for free...

                i just hated being openly insulted by one of them on my first night in black rock city. heckled for no reason as i rode my bike as if i were some spectator. odd because the guy was pissing onto the playa as he yelled at me...
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: DPW abuses

                  Wed, September 15, 2004 - 11:43 AM
                  Yep. That about adds up. Heckling is an art form I appreciate (especially with a bull horn).

                  I was one of the few who had little problem walking by capatilist pig camp (racial slur and something about my mother).

                  Jeez! Haven't you guys read any Lenny Bruce?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: DPW abuses

                    Wed, September 15, 2004 - 11:55 AM
                    it just sucked... it was before the event was open on sat. eve and there was no call for it.

                    so i heckled back and laughed as hard as i could. but it still sucked...

                    the bull-horn thing is something different that i compare to street theatre and takes a quick wit.

                    NOT just a hurled insult.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: DPW abuses

                      Wed, September 15, 2004 - 12:14 PM
                      Oh, I agree that if there's little to enjoy about a hurled insult. I'm just asking you to appreciate where it's coming from. This stranger isn't your family or long friend so let it bounce off you and know it's not personal. How much it sucks depends on you unless the DPW in question follewed you around.

                      Have a thick skin when it comes to things like this.

                      Me, I'd probably end up in a fight but I'd enjoy that too.
                      • Re: DPW abuses

                        Wed, September 15, 2004 - 1:23 PM
                        i had a nice lenghty reply to this post, especially the part "This stranger isn't your family or long friend so let it bounce off you and know it's not personal." but i realized that this person is just a DPW fuckup, so it wouldnt matter what i said anyway.... so i deleted it.
                      • Re: DPW abuses

                        Thu, September 16, 2004 - 2:09 PM
                        usually i have a very thick skin... but it was a little thin when it turned out to be the VERY first encounter i had on the playa for my 5th year...
              • Re: DPW abuses

                Wed, September 15, 2004 - 9:32 PM
                Thanks Spyral! Only i'm no longer one of those people, i was for 9 years though at least untill i was excommunicated for asking too many questions. Apparently me and the official party line don't see eye to eye on what constituites truth.I want to hear an official Burningman person tell me flat out that Eric Close doesn't make 50k a year or what i said about the incident last year isn't true. Go ahead if you can lie that blythly or believe whatever your told so well. I did check my facts, ERIC HIMSELF CONFIRMED THEM! Anyway if any of you are wondering what I'm talking about go to Pissclear.org and if they've posted this years editions already read the interview. Its in the Thursday Drugs and Cops edition. The info IS correct, if the official BM line is to lie then i want to hear someone do it out front.
                I know y'all love BM but please don't assume that just becouse its written in Jackrabbit speaks or Coyote knows or on the website its true- sometimes it isn't- people lose perspective and the copcept and think the ends justify the means- they don't. Its a great party, an often inspiring event, but a real fucked up cult like thing at times too. Group think is not always pretty. I've said enough- anyone who wants to know read the interview and make up your mind about it, assume nothing.
                But if you bitch about the DPW abuses enough the powers that be will hear it, its a liability and nothing wakes up office types faster than that. Enjoy BM but try and keep it in perspective and for fuck's sake just PAY the freaking DPW,volenteering for months under those conditions can turn someone feral in no time. hell if the LLC can drop 50k for a permit pusher they can compensate people who sacrifice so much energy and as i've said, paid people are totaly more accountable. I was very inside for a very long time,I've worked in the SF office, on the playa, have friends in virtually every dept of BM, I am NOT talking out my ass here. I know things that only one or two DPW managers know so I forgive people still out there working(like Squeek or Wick both of who i still respect immensly)who believe the party line.They're either misinformed or thoughly indoctrinated. The before and after on site BM is a whole different world than during the event in a way most of you good people can't fathom unless you've done it or something like it.
                Sorry if the truth offends some of you but i have more loyalty to that than to Burningman orto the DPW. (sorry guys, hate me if you have to)b I'll moniter this board but I'll shut up or reply to people directly from now on. If you have specific questions you can respond to me directly via tribe.
                Namaste as i wanna be,
                Tym Simpson
  • Unsu...
     

    a salute to the lovely folks of the DPW

    Wed, September 15, 2004 - 2:12 PM
    *sigh*

    Not this again.

    Every year, on the ePlaya or some other Burning Man community forum, someone comes forward with complaints about "DPW assholes." It's old news.

    The DPW cats are a special breed of desert rat: only a few hundred hardy souls out of the 36 000 who attend Burning Man bust ass like they do. These folks spend several weeks in the desert, often working ten hour days in blazing heat, to build the infrastructure of Black Rock City. A city that, in my opinion, sees less and less meaningful participation each year as the population grows. A lot of people who show up figure dressing in costumes is participation, and passing out store-bought trinkets is gifting. Well, sure, it is, but when you weigh this against the contributions of the DPW there is no comparison, so I take a little offense at some of the bitching people do about them. A lot of DPW members stay behind to strike the city and clean up the MOOP left by "participants" who can't bother to properly dispose of their cigarette butts or pull their rebar out of the ground.

    Should we give DPW members some leeway if they want to party hard the week of Burning Man? Absolutely, they deserve it. They've spawned their own little subculture that offends a lot of people, as it generally seems to involve drunkenness, rowdy behavior and being loud during the week of Burning Man. I'm not going to condemn them for this, they need their release, and the DPW members I call friends are lovely people (who may hide this under a gruff or rowdy exterior by the time you see them ride by on their utility vehicle swigging tequila and shouting insults through megaphones.)

    We owe them a lot, and I'm very grateful for everything they do.

    That being said... if a member of the DPW commits a violent act against another citizen, or steals or vandalizes somebody's property, the individual(s) in question should be reported and dealt with, and face the consequences of his/her actions. It isn't fair to condemn an entire group of people based on the act of an individual. Is there any evidence suggesting there is a higher level of actual criminal activity emanating from the DPW organization or subculture? I doubt it.

    I know their hardass attitudes might be a little difficult for your average candy raver to handle, but folks have to stop profiling them.



    • -snip-We owe them a lot, and I'm very grateful for everything they do.-snip-

      yep. i agree with that statement.


      BUT does it give A FEW of the DPW folks permission to harrass, sling nasty insults, fling beer cans at people, steal others personal property, drive like maniacs (when everyone else is regulated) and, in short, behave like 5 year old kids with nothing better to do?

      all in all, MOST (and if you read all of the above thread, most everyone agrees) of the DPW are good folks... its the few who paint the entire bunch with a bad brush. and thats just sad.
      • Huh.... weird... everyone *I* saw fitting that general description would more accurately be called "frat boys" than they would "DPW" ... so, I guess the point is more that "obnoxious assholes garner the attention they crave, whoever they are" than it is that "DPW are assholes"...

        ... yeah, jarjar, I know *you* weren't saying that, but that seems to be thegeneral tone...

        as someone else said- yeah, sure, dismantle the DPW and start over to get rid of the rowdy people blowing off steam... and while we're at it, start a screening process to do the same for the people that show up for one week 2 months after the DPW's been busting ass, because a lot of *them* are total lazy ass tit-grabbin' beer-throwing pissing on the playa obscenity-screaming yahoos!

        ... and again- just as the asshole who jumped on the Lamp Lighter truck and wouldn't leave then jumped off and attacked someone wasn't by any stretch a Lamp Lighter, it's not entirely improbable that not *every* person w/ a DPW insignia or claim to be was actually of the department ...

        • Thank You for building the City for the many weeks before!

          Thanks for letting ( well most of the time) me bug your ass during "the event" about BMORG rules! ( I'm a volunteer as well)

          Thanks for cleaning up the shit that we leave behind... and a great f**k'n job you do at that! Remember everyone- we got a 2 year permit because of the great job done on trace no leaves.

          ok - some people need to check there behavior a little = like there is really no place for violence in BRC... don't we have enough of it out side the city?

          Bring on the DPW attitude...

          Thanks
          Vertumnus
          Black Rock Citizen

          Ps
          I’m now all teary eyed, I need a hug :-)
          • Unsu...
             
            Oh, a little violence is not necessarily a bad thing.
            • In 1996 I borrowed Molli Simons' bullhorn Monday morning and said the following phraze 1,000 times:

              "This has been an experiment in temporary community. Had this been an actual community you wouldn't need an asshole like me screaming at you through a bullhorn telling you to pick up all your trash..."

              That sure was fun. But I always try to remember that this is just that: an experiment in temporaty community. This experiment cycles through vast amounts of people. They come, they go... everyone is trying to figger shit out. Some people stay longer than they should. That is part of the experiment. Some have really high expectations, then are sorely dissappointed. Some people feel blessed that they found it. People have a lot of stuff to work out. Burning Man is a great experience especially for people who get 'tested' a bit. It's certainly not perfect. And that is a really good thing. Can you imagine how bored you would be if you didn't have roughe ruffians like the DPW to complain about? Sure, ya got socked and someone stole your beer and your mixer and your bike and you girlfriend fucked another girl for the first time and now your dipped in shit. Sounds like some of you people are not participating! Is that the best you've got to complain about? How about the DPW people? What do they have to complain about? Alcohaulic drug addict socially retarded unemployable losers who have no home, no options, no clue and nothing to lose. I personlly find it hysterical that they can't defend themselves here becasue I think the network is down in thier
              74 Pinto or maybe their laptop is in the shop!!!!! A little perspective and you end with pity instead of rage. Try appreciation. Pity, rage and empathy are too powerful tools for us mere humans to use. Our egos take over and we sound like idiots.

              I'm glad to hear everyone had a wonderful time a Burning Man '04.... and I'm glad to hear the DPW are keeping everyone on their toes.
              • "Can you imagine how bored you would be if you didn't have roughe ruffians like the DPW to complain about?"


                yeah man, I can't, like, totally not fathom how uncool it would not be if there were, like, no assholes on the playa.
                • Deathguild is a goth nightclub held on saturday nights in San Francisco. Every year they put together the thunderdome. I really don't think they're affiliated with the DPW at all.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    did I say Saturday? Monday nights.... why can't I go back and edit my post?....
                    • "I'm surprised you can even read the text on your screen through all the jumping to conclusions and finger pointing going on in this thread."

                      Check my phrasing homey. I'm only speaking of my first hand experiences. Which, I'm pretty sure, i was there for most of them.

                      I'd have to imagine if this year Jiffy-Lube's theme was "Renegade Mobile High Pressure Battery Acid Enemas", you'd want me to point them out to you.

                      It takes damn near all of my prescious few remaining synapse connections to spin multi-tool fire. I really don't need to add in some burnier-than-thou type driving a car into the act.

                      There's fun danger, (which i do for a living) and then there's stupid unconscious pedestrian run of the mill danger. Anybody can be a jackhole.

                      And your response, once again, only adds to my previous perception.

                      *Note*

                      If you'll read carefully, and really look at the words i chose, you'll notice I only referenced my personal experience. I am not trying to fan a flame war, just voicing/venting my position. The DPW response so far, has been rather predictable and telling of where the mindset is.

                      But's that's just from my perspective. Which you are more than welcome to disregard.

                      What would suck is that a few bad appples give the whole of DPW a bad name, and the good guys in DPW have to take the fallout for it.

                      For example, let's say next year I'm spinning my 7 foot staff with the solid metal ends and the 2 feet of wick. (dubbed "The Compensator" by my girlfriend) Another DPW car drives into me.

                      It would incredibly easy to give in to the temptation to put the staff through the windshield.

                      But the "good" DPW driver could have just made an honest mistake, or be emergency evac-ing an overdosed bunny. And then I would have addded to the fuckery. I'd rather not.

                      And besides, it's damn near impossible to fight well while on E. What with all the stopping to feel the texture of your opponents clothes, and the exclamations of how much you "Love the way your Tu-tu flairs when you punch!".

                      On the plus side though, a good roundhouse might help unlock the TMJ.



                      R
                      • blah blah blah

                        Sun, September 19, 2004 - 3:05 PM
                        I have TMJ. Just what are you saying to me? Tell me that!

                        "If you'll read carefully, and really look at the words i chose, you'll notice I only referenced my personal experience. "

                        sorry, all I heard was blah blah blah.
                        • Re: blah blah blah

                          Mon, September 20, 2004 - 8:02 AM
                          Just so folks know DPW is still out there cleaning up -- wiping the metaphirocal asses of our community.
                          • Re: blah blah blah

                            Mon, September 20, 2004 - 8:31 AM
                            yes they are. cleaning up everyone else's mess so that there can be an event next year and the year after etc.

                            and a side note to whoever remarked about the "typical response" from dpw: i think other than spyral, i am the only dpw who has responded in this thread, and for the most part my responses have been pretty even handed and reasonable replies. if that's what you were getting at, well, then, good.
                            • Re: blah blah blah

                              Mon, September 20, 2004 - 11:10 AM
                              Squeak...... theres not many that give DPW "class" and YOU, sweety are one of few..... and..... in my opinion The Womyn of DPW KICK ASS!!!! now.. if ya all could just tame some of those boys it'd be a whole lot "Kinder and Gentler" DPW (ahemmm cough, cough!!)

                              in any case... without those "hardasses" I can't see the city gettin built or cleaned.... there have been times I have given thought to DPW "goin on strike" as it were..... can ya imagine the Bitchin that would happen then..... "what do ya mean NO EVENT!"

                              people may not like em, they can be and usually are a "surly" bunch but they work hard and although "punchin people, or stealing shit" is NOT the way I prefer they act, ya cant judge em all by the actions of a few miscreants.....

                              Bare
              • Sir Chicken,
                In years past you've said that you avoiding
                spending time on the computer (as if the keys
                has poo and acid on them). I just wanted to say
                that some of the stuff you've written on tribe has
                been great! Thanks!
                -julian snail
                • I thank DPW for building my city. I thank DPW for the portopotties....wait, the BMorg hires an outside contractor for that with the money I give them from my ticket. I thank DPW for the electricity I use....wait, DPW doesn't do that, they provide power only to the BMorg and the central BM government. Well, I thank them for building all the cool theme camps and bars that I hang out while at BM.....wait, these are made by independent groups of participants, DPW only builds camps for the BMorg and central BM government. I thank the DPW for building the Temple of Stars....wait, the Temple of Stars was build by David Best's crew, not the DPW. I thank DPW for the all the cool art I see on the playa....wait, the art is made by individual participants and groups. I thank DPW for all the cool art cars I ride in....wait, these are made by independent groups of participants, DPW only builds cool cars for themselves. I thank DPW for lighting the city....wait, the city is lit by kerosene lanterns by a none-DPW group called the lamplighters. I thank DPW for helping me if I get dehydrated....wait, BMorg hires an outside contractor to provide medical services. I thank DPW for helping monitor the safety of the city.....wait, the Black Rock Rangers do this service and they must spend much of their time dealing with drunken DPW members who think they are a privileged class. I thank the DPW for the guys who serve me tuna; and the people who wash my hair; and the hottie who gave me a massage; and the crew who set up that outrageous juggling act; and that girl who help me choose a piece of lingerie from her boutique; and that ravers who spun such great music I danced to; and those participants who set up that trampoline…..wait the DPW didn’t set those things up either. Well I guess the city is actually built by a lot of people, which includes a group called DPW.

                  I do thank the DPW for mapping out the city....which doesn’t require any pavement or curbs, but does require street signs and some flags. I do thank DPW for putting up the trash fence....although honestly the trash fence took less than 2 days to put up and you got help from a lot of others who work in the BMorg. I thank DPW for cleaning up after the even...not my camp or most camps (it is clean when we leave), but for all the BM central government areas and for the areas where participants abuse the system. I do thank DPW for erecting the cafe....although some would rather see the cafe disappear from the event. I thank you for building the man....although the man itself is actually built around the Fourth of July by a group of volunteers slightly separate from the DPW, who feel honored every moment of the fabrication process. It is the base of the man that we should thank DPW for.

                  I know, I completely trivialized what DPW does for the event, just because I'm angry that a small subset of DPW find humor in violent/negative behavior towards others. My intention is not to trivialize what DPW does for the event, they do a lot of the little things that make all these other groups succeed. What the DPW must understand is that if they continue to treat other participants badly, then the other participants will treat the DPW badly in return. Respect requires respect and they have lost mine. The truth is that there are over 3,000 participants (10% of the total population) that put in a huge amount of time working and creating for the event. I would say not all are living in the Gerlach trailer park for a month, but they are working as much over the year on their particular teams, art projects, and theme camps as the DPW participants. For DPW to act like they are a privileged class of participants, to the point where they disrupt the positive experience of others through violence and intimidation, is just plain wrong and deplorable. There is a difference in stealing a flags from camps in humor and what you guys did. When it is in humor and you get caught by a participant, you apologize, try to make it up to him and then go your merry way. You don't surround the innocent participant with a bunch of guys, threaten to beat the fuck out of him, rough him up a little and steal his stuff regardless.

                  I think many in the BMorg actually understands much of this…that is why they got rid of the old time DPW management and that is why I hear the BMorg almost closed down the DPW camp this year for the flag stuff. Although Tym has spoken up on some pieces of his Piss Clear article in this thread, what I got from his article was that he was upset the way he got fired when the Bmorg got rid of the old management crew of DPW. These guys were hard working great guys so its sucks they got the boot but they did have a destructive edge and allowed crap to go on within DPW that could no longer be tolerated. It’s time to clean up DPW. Based on the grips in this ’04 thread, the transition to a kindler gentler DPW will take some more time. Lesson Learned: I think the DPW management should be drilling it in the heads of next year’s DPW team, “Working for DPW has responsibilities . You are a representative of the BM organization and the DPW team. All you actions will not just reflect on yourself, but on the BM organization and the others in DPW. As such, you must treat all participants with dignity and respect. If you joined DPW because you want to give back to the city you love…welcome. If you joined DPW because you are looking for special rights and privilege….please go somewhere else. If you are driving a DPW stickered vehicle, wearing a DPW laminate/logo, living in a DPW labeled camp, or telling participants you are a member of DPW, you will act responsibly or you will not continue to work for DPW. If you can’t live with that, don’t let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.”
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "I thank DPW for the portopotties....wait, the BMorg hires an outside contractor for that with the money I give them from my ticket."

                    * who works very closely with the dpw and its dispatchers to make sure those potties are serviced and maintained. dpw people and machinery do a lot of the set up and grunt work.

                    "I thank DPW for the electricity I use....wait, DPW doesn't do that, they provide power only to the BMorg and the central BM government. "

                    * that's incorrect. the dpw doesn't provide power to anyone. the dpw works closely with, provides equipment and labor for, the contractor who builds the power grid that provides, among other things, power to center camp, information services, law enforcement, ranger outposts and emergency services. the dpw services the fuel needs of those generators.

                    "Well, I thank them for building all the cool theme camps and bars that I hang out while at BM.....wait, these are made by independent groups of participants, DPW only builds camps for the BMorg and central BM government."

                    * while dpw itself doesn't have anything to do with any particular big theme camp, many dpw folks are residents of lots of different theme camps, large and small, and help construct them, and run the heavy machinery to both put them together and clean up after they leave.

                    "I thank the DPW for building the Temple of Stars....wait, the Temple of Stars was build by David Best's crew, not the DPW."

                    while the dpw organization itself doesn't have anything to do with the actual design or constuction, many dpw folks volunteer up there, and run some of the heavy machinery to both put together and clean up the temple after the burn.

                    i'll stop there because it is apparent you really don't have the first clue how much the dpw does, often side by side with a lot of organizations, and it's tedious to repeat.

                    as i said before, i don't know what your bad experience was, but it was with some individuals, who may or may not have been dpw, but not with the organization. my only comment on that is that there does need to be some kind of policing on who wears the dpw emblem, because there are a lot of people with it who aren't.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Angelica,

                    In addition to everything that Squeak said I would like to ask the following.

                    So how exactly do you define DPW? If it's not DPW who builds the man on the Fourth of July, which department is it?

                    Sure the trash fence was put up in record time, sure there were a lot of people on that fence who work other departments most of the time. But you know what, if you were to ask most of them, they would tell you that they also worked with DPW putting up the Trash fence.

                    Heck, I even worked a day with DPW this year. I went to the office expecting to help mail the summer newsletters or the survival guides (I don't remember which) but due to some scheduling confusion, they had too many people for those tasks, so I was put to work helping to make signs. Guess what? A DPW job.

                    As far as people behaving badly? As a Ranger, I've had to help deal with a number of people who have gotten out of hand or taken things too far. For the most part, they've all been participants, some of them have been virgins, some of em have been with various theme camps, and yes some of them even work with DPW part of the time. But when I did have to 'deal' with them, they weren't actively working DPW, they were just being a participant.

                    daMongolian

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