Tribe.net. Local Connections Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#a1f2c603-dd72-46c7-910e-a6401936aae8 2007-10-24T22:21:49Z 2007-10-24T22:21:49Z

Metric: > Here's the map of the closure area from last year: Thanks for the info. That seems to be the best source yet of info about what is closed and what is not. To the South East and East, the closure zone is not much beyond the trash fence, but probably a bit more than 50 yards. > In my opinion, an en masse occupation of the playa without coordination would be a huge disaster. Probably true, but it would be depend on to what extent the people were willing to be truly "radically self-reliant", and how much they believed in "leave no trace".

Adam 2007-10-24T22:21:49Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#d7abe4de-aedb-44e6-a081-0d240c8a78bc 2007-10-24T16:49:11Z 2007-10-24T16:49:11Z

Okay, autocorrected. Sorry.

Crypto 2007-10-24T16:49:11Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#857f456d-f1d7-46b4-b49d-d134f623de04 2007-10-24T16:48:18Z 2007-10-24T16:48:18Z

<. Their funding has gone down every year throughout the history of their existence. > Oksy, i'm confused. They were formed as an agenvy in the depression* they really can't have less money than in the thirties. *http://www.access.gpo.gov/blm/pls96/history.html

Crypto 2007-10-24T16:48:18Z Metric http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#4517870f-e878-46d4-b2ca-e081539901d4 2007-10-24T15:18:44Z 2007-10-24T15:18:44Z

"To amend the Omnibus Parks and Public Lands Management Act of 1996 to extend the authorization for certain national heritage areas, and for other purposes." http://www.theorator.com/bills110/text/hr1483.html Back to your regularly scheduled "If Burning Man were cancelled" conversation.

Metric 2007-10-24T15:18:44Z Metric http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#b78ea247-8753-4801-b3ab-f7b09268c738 2007-10-24T15:09:27Z 2007-10-24T15:09:27Z

And I'm probably wrong about the Senate debate on that bill, too. I saw something on CSPAN about public lands-- must've been something else.

Metric 2007-10-24T15:09:27Z Metric http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#f9d5e69a-f302-488e-b1d3-a511aed37c43 2007-10-24T15:00:03Z 2007-10-24T15:00:03Z

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/NEWS/709300327/1016

Metric 2007-10-24T15:00:03Z Metric http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#b730d535-dfd0-4362-aebe-e01603dd2741 2007-10-24T14:57:26Z 2007-10-24T14:57:26Z

No, not "National Recreation Area," it is a "National Conservation Area." That's kinda the point. There are people who would throw coffee in my face for that error. Also, it is the NCA staff (National Landscape Conservation System generally) whose appropriations have been systematically eviscerated. This is being debated on the floor of the Senate today. http://www.ourconservationlegacy.org/news/2007-09-27/land_letter

Metric 2007-10-24T14:57:26Z Metric http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#213e35ac-34e7-4b20-90fe-786ab257d562 2007-10-24T14:49:56Z 2007-10-24T14:49:56Z

There is no set number of people-per-camp which triggers a permit requirement from the BLM. It is at the manager's discretion if they deem a gathering to be potentially destructive to resources in the National Recreation Area. Also, they take into account whether the gathering is for a commercial purpose, or whether it has been organized. The North American Eagle land speed folks only had 30 people or so in their group, not including film crews and looky loos, and they were required to have a permit in the "fee demo" model of $4 per person per day. Of course, they also had a converted F-104 jet car with sponsorship logos plastered all over it, and were conducting a potentially dangerous activity. Here's the map of the closure area from last year: http://blackrockdesert.org/maps/2007burningmanclosures/3_Closure_Schedule_Map.gif It seems larger than the 50 yards someone has suggested. The Fourth of July activities on the playa have taken on the vernacular "Fourth of Juplaya" moniker, and last time this was enough for the BLM to start looking at it as an organized event, regardless of how far apart camps were placed. They were also looking at the internet for signs of "planning." They nade noises about enforcement, but ultimately there was no drama, and people just did what they did. The BLM has a responsibility to protect the resources of the NCA and, like it or not, has default liability for the safety of citizens who visit. They will continue to try to collect fees from significant activities on the playa to fund their administrative costs. Their funding has gone down every year throughout the history of their existence. Burning Man is a significant part of their budget, though most of that income pays for the administration of the event itself. In my opinion, an en masse occupation of the playa without coordination would be a huge disaster.

Metric 2007-10-24T14:49:56Z Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c58ea938-430d-437d-bdb3-bc0b84b7f9ee 2007-10-24T04:39:31Z 2007-10-24T04:39:31Z

Badger: > > what if I camp outside, and have a ticket though? > That's not an option available to you. Never will be. The BLM and burningman.com seem to disagree with you. According to the BLM, you can camp within 50 yards of the trash fence so long as you're not kicking up dust. And according to burningman.com, it's only "strongly discouraged" for ticket holders to walk through the closure zone.

Adam 2007-10-24T04:39:31Z DreamCatcher http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#8547dd33-8235-4495-a74a-c4c6e0d6c0b5 2007-10-23T00:38:35Z 2007-10-23T00:38:35Z

? over my head.

DreamCatcher 2007-10-23T00:38:35Z Anathema http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c376682d-967c-4fb6-b6bd-d7db2899d177 2007-10-22T21:03:13Z 2007-10-22T21:03:13Z

Anyone want to go in on T-shirts that say "Apologist" ? Sassy, evocative, goes from office to evening with just a few accessories. It's so rare I get accused of being anything so . . . Cold War-esque. I'm kinda digging it . . . maybe we could even kick it up a notch to "Collaborationist" or "Fellow Traveler."

Anathema 2007-10-22T21:03:13Z Badger http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#6279aff7-4fd1-43ca-b544-923bd2033964 2007-10-22T20:45:55Z 2007-10-22T20:45:55Z

>what if I camp outside, and have a ticket though? That's not an option available to you. Never will be. Not unless you choose to camp beyond the buffer zone and the exclusion area around the event.

Badger 2007-10-22T20:45:55Z Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#48309c27-a1d6-4df8-bab3-e0047a5da84b 2007-10-22T20:45:04Z 2007-10-22T20:45:04Z

Bobzilla: > http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/NEPA/burningman/4_Burning_Man_EA_Appendices.pdf Actually, you can camp within 50 yards of the trash fence, to the north and east of the event, if you're not creating dust. From the BLM: - - - - - - - - - - - - - SPECIAL RECREATION PERMIT STIPULATIONS BURNING MAN 2006-2010 Possession of Firearms within perimeter fence. Discharge of Firearms within 2 miles of the perimeter fence. Camping and Motorized Vehicles Creating Dust within one-mile of the perimeter fence. Operation of Motor Vehicles prohibited within the event except as provided for in Stipulation 36. Closed to all public uses within a designated area (to be defined in the yearly closure orders) west and south of the perimeter fence encompassing the airport, entrance road, and ticket area. Possession of Fireworks prohibited within the perimeter fence. Aircraft Landing (except by participants on the strip) within 2 miles of the perimeter fence. Closed to motorized vehicles and camping within a 50 yard buffer outside the perimeter fence. Unauthorized camping within the perimeter fence http://www.nv.blm.gov/Winnemucca/NEPA/burningman/4_Burning_Man_EA_Appendices.pdf - - - - - - - - - - - - - CTP: > what if I camp outside, and have a ticket though? I can't spend the week a mille from 1000s of my friends and not go say hi :) According to the BLM permit, you can camp within 50 yards if you're not creating dust. I wouldn't be surprised if the BMORG or their apologists give you disinformation to try to scare you out of doing such things, but here is what the website has to say about the topic: "Hiking in or through the closure zone is highly discouraged. Those on foot in this area should be prepared to show a ticket stub or risk deportation to the front gate for payment." So, don't let them scare you, and just show your ticket. http://www.burningman.com/preparation/event_survival/law_enforcement.html

Adam 2007-10-22T20:45:04Z Badger http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#ab5c9d85-8522-4efa-acb4-6c373a84b748 2007-10-22T20:43:44Z 2007-10-22T20:43:44Z

>We have to remember what Burning Man symbolizes and represents Just what *does* Burningman represent and what *does* it symbolize?

Badger 2007-10-22T20:43:44Z Badger http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#3018dc50-6baf-4fed-b0d8-c010c1e847ba 2007-10-22T20:42:26Z 2007-10-22T20:42:26Z

>Isn't there a one mile buffer zone outside the fence you aren't allowed in once the event starts? I know Gate and Perimeter patrol it and I think BLM does too.. O know it isn't one mile but there is in fact a buffer zone. I *believe* it may be something like 50-100 yards on all sides of the fence excluding the airport landing strip and the plane parking area.

Badger 2007-10-22T20:42:26Z ॐCURTबुद्ध http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#a8ea7b23-9f84-4507-8f1d-4222adc63cac 2007-10-22T20:36:10Z 2007-10-22T20:36:10Z

AMEN to that!

ॐCURTबुद्ध 2007-10-22T20:36:10Z DreamCatcher http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#b4ae145d-4d9b-4e6d-afd8-09a8ffb9684c 2007-10-22T20:32:50Z 2007-10-22T20:32:50Z

I've heard about Earthdance, sounds very cool.

DreamCatcher 2007-10-22T20:32:50Z CTP http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#7bc33a4d-ab8e-49b7-9c90-c6b92c0948bd 2007-10-22T20:10:42Z 2007-10-22T20:10:42Z

<<<Isn't there a one mile buffer zone outside the fence you aren't allowed in once the event starts?>>> what if I camp outside, and have a ticket though? I can't spend the week a mille from 1000s of my friends and not go say hi :)

CTP 2007-10-22T20:10:42Z D^3 http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#0dbbd6f1-0729-45b2-82c9-905e445b97e8 2007-10-22T19:48:02Z 2007-10-22T19:48:02Z

Burning Man isn't necessarily about location. Although many of us are attached to BRC, it doesn't mean that the spirit of Burning Man can't go on at other locations. Look at Earthdance, for example, this is a worldwide event where several large-scale and private events happen. To be honest, it would be kind of exciting to see Burning Man ascend to that level and still remain true to it's nature. We have to remember what Burning Man symbolizes and represents rather than the physical aspects of it.

D^3 2007-10-22T19:48:02Z Bobzilla http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#111ce6a9-3ce2-49fb-9b15-bc716c063411 2007-10-22T18:32:54Z 2007-10-22T18:32:54Z

Isn't there a one mile buffer zone outside the fence you aren't allowed in once the event starts? I know Gate and Perimeter patrol it and I think BLM does too..

Bobzilla 2007-10-22T18:32:54Z flackmaster http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#372900ad-b68d-4031-82d7-dfd0c1c679b1 2007-10-21T14:33:44Z 2007-10-21T14:33:44Z

no, but the Rainbows probably would

flackmaster 2007-10-21T14:33:44Z Sensei http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#031cb6eb-4e54-4793-a101-e33bcc12133f 2007-10-21T10:38:25Z 2007-10-21T10:38:25Z

Nice post, Z.

Sensei 2007-10-21T10:38:25Z Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c6a245ba-d8a1-45f9-aec5-c112bb269eac 2007-10-21T03:31:53Z 2007-10-21T03:31:53Z

Bob: > That's pathetic. Literally. That's pretty judgmental of you. This group is made up of people who have in previous years built the man: http://tribes.tribe.net/headstandman Don't know anything about the guy who started this idea: http://tribes.tribe.net/burningarchescamp

Adam 2007-10-21T03:31:53Z $item.owner.firstName http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#00ac097c-177e-4b8b-85e5-ef66bf340cde 2007-10-20T18:52:15Z 2007-10-20T18:52:15Z

I'd be out there. And I'd still be working to keep the playa pristine... One-man point sweeps... I think it's a good idea to come to the playa off-season a few times and spend a couple days or a fortnight out there /truly/ self-reliant. I know many do, and in my experience those of us that do have more respect for the playa, and treat it like the beautiful and deadly gift it is. Keeping it beautiful and deadly will keep us there.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-20T18:52:15Z Syngerella http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c1a93c9b-ba01-4177-a66a-20c9bd6c61c8 2007-10-20T17:44:15Z 2007-10-20T17:44:15Z

"what else is out there..." http://amf.tribe.net/

Syngerella 2007-10-20T17:44:15Z Syngerella http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#973fc675-868f-4104-81d9-156854ab8198 2007-10-20T17:41:29Z 2007-10-20T17:41:29Z

I think the number of people that can be in one camp(outside the perimeter) is 49, but why not make it less than thirty... Syngerella

Syngerella 2007-10-20T17:41:29Z Syngerella http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#ff8c4f1e-b376-474b-9dd9-2db27d6bf45f 2007-10-20T17:39:37Z 2007-10-20T17:39:37Z

Other groups have gatherings based on the small camps spread apart model, why not BM? You need no permission from burning man or the BLM, that is PUBLIC land out there. Laws vary as to vehicular presence(I think they have to be a mile away) but having camps outside are legal. Syngerella

Syngerella 2007-10-20T17:39:37Z suzizzle http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c4a06c99-792e-4d75-a891-a1750c1d5b2a 2007-10-20T15:59:46Z 2007-10-20T15:59:46Z

hahahaha... I'm not going even if they *don't* cancel it. Put a fork in me.

suzizzle 2007-10-20T15:59:46Z Bob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#0fb836c1-1315-45ba-b81f-a054bacf6bcb 2007-10-20T06:52:18Z 2007-10-20T06:52:18Z

That's pathetic. Literally.

Bob 2007-10-20T06:52:18Z Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#5a3e1195-a28b-411f-b46d-1461998fb256 2007-10-20T04:51:32Z 2007-10-20T04:51:32Z

Oh... and FYI. There are already at least two small groups who are planning on camping outside of the fence for 2008.

Adam 2007-10-20T04:51:32Z Bob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#9204528a-1ac0-4312-ad8f-6c91dcbd1890 2007-10-20T01:40:06Z 2007-10-20T01:40:06Z

Yeah, but you have to register your group at http://www.burningman.com.

Bob 2007-10-20T01:40:06Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#bddda1e1-a5d9-41c9-8a84-ed735beb4294 2007-10-20T00:51:49Z 2007-10-20T00:51:49Z

That's the forth of juplaya approach.

Crypto 2007-10-20T00:51:49Z Kurt http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#7c5131eb-0a2e-4155-80dd-f2b2d660317c 2007-10-20T00:32:21Z 2007-10-20T00:32:21Z

I saw somewhere the # is 15.

Kurt 2007-10-20T00:32:21Z Seanan http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#5868ef7e-a69f-4921-93d1-b4e848aeaece 2007-10-19T23:47:56Z 2007-10-19T23:47:56Z

maybe it would be possible to have many small camps spread out about the playa. Each camp with a populace of say 50, and if you maintain a certain distance between camps (+500m for example), perhaps you could argue that each camp was its own separate entity and event and permits weren't required.

Seanan 2007-10-19T23:47:56Z Seanan http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#b70ae837-9165-4536-963b-00bc85987c08 2007-10-19T23:44:00Z 2007-10-19T23:44:00Z

"In fact, maybe it's time to start exploring other events, come on peeps, tell us what else is out there... " http:/www.goingnowhere.org

Seanan 2007-10-19T23:44:00Z DreamCatcher http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#1471bb2f-84e4-4d28-97ea-bd571da148c4 2007-10-19T23:10:37Z 2007-10-19T23:10:37Z

Good info, if there are limits to camp sizes, and BM did cease to exist, what would be some good alternatives? Afterall, thousands of people would be looking for something else to do.

DreamCatcher 2007-10-19T23:10:37Z Snowlover http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#249cef4e-d683-48d2-a190-f63d54c3220d 2007-10-19T21:55:06Z 2007-10-19T21:55:06Z

sure its a short trip, I venture to the playa throughout the dry parts of the year. For obvious reasons I avoid the playa if its wet. you are allowed to camp on the playa at any time. no permits required (unless you try to build a city)

Snowlover 2007-10-19T21:55:06Z Adam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#fdcad972-2797-4c57-b378-dbd9d6c4606c 2007-10-19T21:49:20Z 2007-10-19T21:49:20Z

Dream: > Nah, The BLM would kick you out without permits. Not true. There are plenty of events on the playa. You don't need to pay any fees - you don't need a permit. You just need to keep your event under a certain size. I don't know off hand, but I think that it might be 25 or 50 people.

Adam 2007-10-19T21:49:20Z grouchosuave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#ea13652a-9b0d-4c71-92ba-9514f734f83c 2007-10-19T21:21:10Z 2007-10-19T21:21:10Z

Here, here!! I love the desert more than anything else. I should spend more time with that love, period.

grouchosuave 2007-10-19T21:21:10Z Mitch http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#142fba95-f8d1-417d-9006-210683ec3c75 2007-10-19T21:11:17Z 2007-10-19T21:11:17Z

I think I will go camping in the Black Rock Desert at the end of every summer no matter what.

Mitch 2007-10-19T21:11:17Z DreamCatcher http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#c0c6536f-c516-4541-bafd-6f411c215468 2007-10-19T21:03:36Z 2007-10-19T21:03:36Z

Nah, The BLM would kick you out without permits. Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of other fledgling events that are just waiting for people to take notice. If and when the event ceases to exist, something will take its place and people will gather again and the spirit will forge on. Change is inevitable and to embrace it is to enbrace life... In fact, maybe it's time to start exploring other events, come on peeps, tell us what else is out there...

DreamCatcher 2007-10-19T21:03:36Z Aaron http://bm.tribe.net/thread/779722cb-1d69-41c2-a8fd-2c2c12344152#1a9e36a2-2d21-4281-b4d9-55e091933600 2007-10-19T16:50:11Z 2007-10-19T16:50:11Z

Would you still show up?

Aaron 2007-10-19T16:50:11Z