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NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

topic posted Mon, December 24, 2007 - 11:36 PM by 
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THis is interesting.

www.news.com/8301-13772_...5187-52.html

No tickets at the gate in 08.
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  • flac...
    flackmaster
    offline 38

    Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Tue, December 25, 2007 - 8:16 AM
    The back story: the writer Dan Terdiman used to be "Greeter Dan"
    irony?
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    • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Tue, December 25, 2007 - 1:39 PM
      Well, I don't get the post card. My idea was for a discussion. I think it is great. I've never gotten a ticket and rarely even need a ticket to go, so I am out of that loop.

      I don't see anything bad with this stopping sales at the gate. Anyone else hold another opinion?
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      • Unsu...
         

        Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Tue, December 25, 2007 - 6:44 PM
        What I posted in another thread on this:

        To me ending ticket sales at the gate destroys a little bit of magic. Every year I have gone I have had people for one reason or another find out they can't make it. These are not weekenders or yahoo's going unprepared or not contributing to the community(drink!). A good portion of those who think they can't go find out at the last second they can go and show up and give me one of the best surprises of the week. I am suddenly on the playa with somebody five minutes ago I was sad I was not sharing playa time with. Now all that spontaneity and moments of blissful surprise are gone.
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  • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Thu, December 27, 2007 - 12:20 PM
    Hmm, now that is a real "out of the box" solution to the exodus problem ... no tickets AT ALL.
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    • P∑ñGuïñ
      P∑ñGuïñ
      offline 161

      Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Thu, December 27, 2007 - 9:12 PM
      no tickets...just hemp wrist bands with sparkly beads....

      <ack!>
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      • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Fri, December 28, 2007 - 10:15 AM
        Hemp n beads in leiu of tickets? Sounds like a hippie conspiracy to me too.

        >>>But I'd say that giving certain people special privilges is contrary to everything that Burningman is about. <<<

        Agreed - Some volunteers and worker bees are gifted tickets, and a large percentage would probably buy them if they were not working the event, so I really don't see a problem with that and a behind the scenes schwag economy as incentives. Anyway, I'm in favor of not selling tickets at the gate and also to limiting the total number of tickets. 2007 was rife with ill prepared yahoos and people who failed to read the back of their tickets.
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 10:56 AM
    i don't know how to feel about this.

    one thing is for sure... if you violate our perimeter or stow away, and you are caught,

    THAT SHIT IS GONNA SUCK FOR YOU!

    as a consequence, that shit is gonna suck for the gate staff too. we will need more drugs and alcohol to deal with all of the non-burners.

    blm will be super busy too.

    i am a little shocked to hear this! and interested to find out from the bosses what the plan is.
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    • Interesting...

      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 11:17 AM
      So, instead of sneaks getting a choice of a trespassing ticket or an event ticket, it will just be the trespassing ticket. If there's anyone I'd throw to the wolves to meet their quotas, it'd be the people who try to sneak in. But where will all the disposessed people go? To jail in Lovelock, perhaps.

      You're right... very tense potentially.
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    • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 11:26 AM
      "interested to find out from the bosses what the plan is"

      I suggest a burn pile.
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      • Unsu...
         

        Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Fri, December 28, 2007 - 11:37 AM
        >>>I suggest a burn pile.<<<

        you want the naughty unprepared non-burners to be burned in a pile??? that puts a whole new meaning on 'burningman'.

        personally, i wouldn't be able to handle the stench of burning hippies.
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    • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 12:05 PM
      Evil:
      > i am a little shocked to hear this! and interested to find out from the bosses what the plan is.

      Yeah. It would be nice if they'd speak more with the community.

      6 or 8 months ago, I was calling for a regularly scheduled online town hall where the leaders of the BMORG would have a Q&A session with the community. Andie first claimed that the BMORG could not spare even a couple of hours a month to speak with the community. Then she said that they would discuss the idea at their annual retreat. The retreat has come and gone, and still no word.

      > if you violate our perimeter or stow away, and you are caught,
      > THAT SHIT IS GONNA SUCK FOR YOU!

      Really?

      I imagine it'll be much like our Southern Border. People get caught. They get ticketed. They get deported back to where they came from. Then they just run for it again.

      Though in this case, they might instead just join in with the people who are saying "fuck the BMORG" and are camping for free outside of the perimeter.

      tribes.tribe.net/headstandman

      How much is a trespassing ticket?
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      • Soun...
        Sound Man
        offline 28

        Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Mon, December 31, 2007 - 10:07 PM
        I think that I have finally gotten Adam's number. See the post from 12/28 He must be the long lost brother of Miss South Carolina. She's the one who went on and on about how lost people were because they were deprived of getting maps in high school. LOL Poor adam has lost his way and even the Cheshire Cat can't help him find HIS WAY.

        Happy New Year everybody )^(
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        • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

          Wed, January 2, 2008 - 3:45 PM
          Sound Man:

          In reponse to you, I'm just going to quote FIDO.

          "1. One fast way to send spritied discourse into vitrolic animostiy is by commenting not on what is posted, but on the poster and/or his/her reasons behind posting and mental state.

          2. If you are not a licensed mental health professional, please don't try and analyize me. If you *are* a licensed mental health professional, you should check with your certification board and see if it is advisable to dispense analyisis based on online postings, also I can't afford to pay you, so you will just be giving away your hard earned knowlege.

          3. I think (note: that means it's just my opinion, I don't need facts to back it up) that those two points cause a lot more ruckus than snark, boobies, muppets ever have or will."
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 12:19 PM
    i think this makes things clear, don't you? maybe the font is not large enough?

    tickets.burningman.com/

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    • embe...
      embersandsparks
      offline 219

      Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Sun, December 30, 2007 - 7:55 PM
      Man, are you so slavering for an opportunity to be an ass that you can't even READ the post you're overreacting to? Try again, grasshopper. Use your reading glasses this time, and engage that lovely evolved playa spirit if needed.

      There, now do see what he asked? There is nothing, nada, ZERO on the bm ticket page regarding the BLM citation penalties.

      Sheesh.
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      • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Sun, December 30, 2007 - 8:56 PM
        I want to say the fine is over $200 but I can't recall exactly. I remember thinking "gee, that's a pretty steep fine" when someone told me, whatever it was. I think it is generally printed on the exclusion area signs that are posted at such places as the 12-mile playa entrance. Those signs provide a map of the exclusion area, the dates of closure and, I believe, a description of the penalty.
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      • Unsu...
         

        Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

        Wed, January 2, 2008 - 4:41 PM


        what do lovely evolved grasshopper asses have to do with reading glasses?



        why not run the perimeter, and see what happens? i'm not being an ass. i could be an ass, and tell you what i think of people who are too stupid to buy a ticket before burningman starts. but i think that should be too obvious. instead i'll say, of course there is nothing on the bm ticket page regarding the blm citation process because you are supposed to buy tickets, not force your way in. if you really want to know, try calling blm and asking them for yourself.

        anyways, whats-his-name and i already had this conversation, and he already knows what the penalties are. he doesn't want to just give the info he already has, because that would be the opposite of trolling.

        out of the nearly 50k people who attended bm in '07, only about 2k of them bought tickets at the gate. i think everything is gonna be alright. just plan ahead, and get your ticket before the burn. besides, tons of people are always privately selling their tickets right around burn time.
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        • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

          Thu, January 3, 2008 - 9:07 AM
          Geekster:
          > You may only come into and out of the event site through the Gate.

          "Hiking in or through the closure zone is highly discouraged. Those on foot in this area should be prepared to show a ticket stub or risk deportation to the front gate for payment."

          According to that link you gave, jumping over the trash fence is only "discouraged", and not forbidden.

          "Ignoring posted speed limits or boundary signs on the playa may result in a moving violation that imposes a $250 fine."

          And the $250 fine seems to be a moving violation, not a trespassing fine. I've never seen any mentions anywhere of a trespassing fine. The BMORG website simply mentions deportation to the gate where in the past you could buy a ticket.
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          • BryTee
            BryTee
            offline 218

            Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

            Thu, January 3, 2008 - 9:55 AM
            But I believe they do have the legal right to eject anyone for any (or no) reason.
            And one reason would be you don't have a ticket.
            And I think most people would not have an issue if they ejected someone for not having a ticket! Even if there is no legal enforcement to have to have one to be at that location.

            BUT, saying that, I believe the ticketing system is how they track numbers of people at the event, which directly corresponds to how the BLM sets its fee based on headcount at the event. So getting in without a ticket would be a problem for the BLM, and they have the legal right to eject you off the land they maintain for not follow their rules.

            Most people believe to pay their fair share to make an event work, and free-loaders are not welcome. Even if the ticket was really a voluntary donation, our society believes in being fair, yes there are example of unfairness all over the place, but GENERALLY people believe in fairness, and even those being unfair will either hide, obscure, lie, or have clauses in the rules to justify their unfairness, since underneath they also believe in the concept of fairness too.
            It might not be legal to need to pay to get in, but it's morally correct in our society.
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            • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

              Thu, January 3, 2008 - 5:44 PM
              BryTree:
              > Most people believe to pay their fair share to make an event work, and free-loaders are not welcome. Even if the ticket was really a voluntary donation, our society believes in being fair, yes there are example of unfairness all over the place, but GENERALLY people believe in fairness, and even those being unfair will either hide, obscure, lie, or have clauses in the rules to justify their unfairness, since underneath they also believe in the concept of fairness too.

              One of the main of this event is "radical inclusivity". Yet now the org which runs it are excluding people. One way of looking at it would be if you're sneaking in, or helping people sneak in, then you're actually helping the event live according to it's own moral compass.

              Furthermore if we're talking about morality, I have to ask about the morality of a small group of people making a profit off of everyone else's labor. Larry speaks of the wonders of gifting, but he does that while he is putting cash into his own pocket. Do you think that Larry or Marian pay for a ticket? Personally, I'd love to see them leading by example by paying for their tickets out of their own pockets.

              Just saying....
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              • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

                Thu, January 3, 2008 - 6:31 PM
                Just sayin' typical idiotic garbage as usual, Adam.

                Now he wants the staff to pay to be in the event they organize. Regardless of what one may think of the way the LLC manages the event, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

                Does anyone think someone who produces a play should have to buy opening night tickets for it? Howzabout those fund-raising parties you describe on your website for your little gringo colonialist fantasy in Nicaragua Adam? As someone planing on living on your private island, are you planning on paying admission to the events you want to host there?

                Of course, now that he's been challenged, he''ll probably answer "yes" to the above question...kind readers can choose whether to believe it or not.
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                • Unsu...
                   

                  Is this kind of language needed?

                  Thu, January 3, 2008 - 6:49 PM
                  >Just sayin' typical idiotic garbage as usual, Adam. <

                  I think you could have said what you wanted to say without this, Kelly. Not that you have to, but you could have. Doesn't seem to add much to your argument.
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                • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

                  Fri, January 4, 2008 - 7:19 AM
                  Kelly:
                  > Does anyone think someone who produces a play should have to buy opening night tickets for it?

                  A play is an excellent analogy. But we, all of the participants, are the actors.

                  Imagine a play where the actors are asked to pay for the privilege of putting on a show, and a small group of organizers take all of the ticket proceeds.

                  That doesn't sound so bad. But imagine if the play was originally produced by the actors themselves, and then taken from them by these "organizers" who ask them to start paying a nominal sum, which grows higher and higher.

                  That's where we are today.

                  So, yes, I think it's wrong for these "organizers" to be pocketing the cash, while the actors are now paying high fees to participate.

                  Burningman is an event/city created by the people, for the people. If we do need a government, I say : "no taxation without representation."

                  But we've strayed way off-topic. Does smuggling people into the site count as "radical inclusivity"?
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                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    BryTee
                    BryTee
                    offline 218

                    Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

                    Fri, January 4, 2008 - 3:21 PM
                    Using the play analogy, I would say that the Burningman organization are actually the maintenance staff, supplying the bathrooms, paying the property tax on the building. Building the stage and dismantling and cleaning up afterwards.

                    If they don't take money from the actors to pay for these essentials, we're not going to be able to put on our shows.
                    There is no audience.

                    Their job is 52 weeks/year to do this for us, while we just turn up for one week, while the other 51 we do other jobs to pay our bills and live.
                    Their job is paid for by the tickets. They need to pay their home bills and live too, you know?

                    Not paying for a ticket means you're getting their efforts, and them paying bills for you to have your fun week, for free.

                    It's simple, pay your fair share so we all can have fun, and they're happy to be paid to do their jobs to set it up for us.
                    Your fair share keeps going up due to the rent and services going up in price. Go lobby the BLM to reduce their fees, or lobby JOTS to do their work for less - considering the abuse they have to deal with, I can understand why they charge more each year!
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  • BryTee
    BryTee
    offline 218

    Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 6:54 PM
    It would seem there are tickets sold at the gate.

    According to the FAQ: tickets2.burningman.com/faq.php#cantfind
    It says:
    I can't find my ticket. I left my ticket at home and I'm already on my way to Burning Man. What do I do?
    You will need to purchase new tickets at the box office at the gate of the event. Ask for the "lost ticket form" when you buy your second set of tickets. It explains your options if you locate your untorn tickets when you get home. NOTE: The deadline to deal with lost/left at home tickets is now September 29th of the event year that the ticket is for. You must return all the required information listed on the "lost ticket form". (ex: 2008 ticket issues need to be dealt with by September 29th, 2008.)

    OK... maybe you have to give info to prove you've bought some already.
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  • Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

    Thu, January 3, 2008 - 6:34 PM
    Personally, I think it's a good idea. The event is getting dern close to the maximum capacity it can sustain, especially if it continues to grow at the rate it has for the last couple of years with so many new folks. This is a good way to slow down that growth without setting an arbitrary population limit.
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    • Unsu...
       

      Re: NO TICKETS AT THE GATE

      Thu, January 3, 2008 - 6:41 PM
      I think no tickets at the gate is a good idea too, but there is an arbitrary population limit. It is spelled out in the use permit. I think that the decision was a reaction to getting very close to that limit. If I was king, I would close the gates entirely on Monday or Tuesday, ticket or no ticket. Draconian, of course, but effective.
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