Burners for Ron Paul

>> I think Crypto was right.............this went straight to a third grade level.......and probably should have been avoided.


It's a politics discussion in the Burning Man tribe. Did anyone seriously expect a different outcome?

So true about the abortion issue. When I tell people I am for a womens right to choose but strongly believe that Roe V. Wade should be overturned the look of confusion is priceless.

On another point I have been following this thread and have read the quotes put out that RP supposedly said but I havn't seen any recfrence or proof that RP said it. Did I miss it?

Yea. It's like, I'm learning the same lessons over and over. I'm seeing the same patterns in almost everything. This education is kinda sad, but I'm DEFINATLY on to something... but the commodification of culture is (to me) our single greatest threat. What happened in NYC in the early 90's, what is happening to SF right now, what happened to BM and Bread and Puppet... on and on... cacophony, CELL space, the Marathon.... and all the other stuff I don't even know about. It's all the same thing. Control. Which is funny because freedom is what activates us, then we all go to the freedom and someone rises up to control it. Then we go somewhere else. I'm still young. I don't have to suffer losing it all again to someone's misguided and egomanical control. At some point, I'll throw in to something that has a constitution that I can get behind. Which is why I like a Constitutional presidental candidate.

But yea, it's interesting. It's a lot of work to think about all this stuff, and it mostly seems like a waste of time. I can see clearly now things that were cloudy before. I"m starting to "get it".

I have also become interested in the 10 commandments of God (not Larry), in responce to what christian values there are. If it's been a while since you've read them, I'll include them here. It's actually a kind of great constitution, if your into control....

The Ten Commandments


I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.
For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

It's actually more like 16 passages or something, but to get them into the "spirit" of what they are talking about, here is an astute breakdown regarding the "control" angle. And when you look at it like this... if you substitute 'freedom' for 'god'... well we'll have another disucssion on our hands. Check this out:

For those Christians who believe that the Ten Commandments continue to be binding for Christians (see also Old Testament—Christian view of the Law and Cafeteria Christianity), their negative and positive content can be summarized as follows. :

Preface: vs 1–2
Implies the obligation to keep all of the commandments of God, in gratitude because of the abundance of his mercy.
Forbids ingratitude to God and denial that he is our God.
vs 3
Enjoins that God must be known and acknowledged to be the only true God, and our God; and, to worship him and to make him known as he has been made known to us.
Forbids not worshiping and glorifying the true God as God, and as our God; and forbids giving worship and glory to any other, which is due to him alone.
vs 4–6
Requires receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God has appointed; and zeal in resisting those who would corrupt worship; because of God's ownership of us, and interest in our salvation.
Prohibits the worshiping of God by images, or by confusion of any creature with God, or any other way not appointed in his Word.
vs 7
Enjoins a holy and a reverent use of God’s names, titles, attributes, ordinances, Word, and works.
Forbids all abuse of anything by which God makes Himself known. Some Protestants, especially in the tradition of pacifism, read this Commandment as forbidding any and all oaths, including judicial oaths and oaths of allegiance to a government, noting that human weakness cannot foretell whether such oaths will in fact be vain.
vs 8–11
Requires setting apart to God such set times as are appointed in his Word. Many Protestants are increasingly concerned that the values of the marketplace do not dominate entirely, and deprive people of leisure and energy needed for worship, for the creation of civilized culture. The setting of time apart from and free from the demands of commerce is one of the foundations of a decent human society. See Sabbath.
Forbids the omission, or careless performance, of the religious duties, using the day for idleness, or for doing that which is in itself sinful; and prohibits requiring of others any such omission, or transgression, on the designated day.
vs 12
The only commandment with explicitly positive content, rather than a prohibition; it connects all of the temporal blessings of God, with reverence for and obedience to authority, and especially for father and mother.
Forbids doing anything against, or failing to give, the honor and duty which belongs to anyone, whether because they possess authority or because they are subject to authority.
vs 13
Requires all lawful endeavors to preserve our own life, and the life of others.
Forbids taking away of our own life, or the life of our neighbor, unjustly (Just taking of life includes self-defense and times of War.); and, anything that tends toward depriving life.
vs 14
Enjoins protection of our own and our neighbor’s chastity, in heart, speech, and behavior.
Forbids all unchaste thoughts, words, and actions.
vs 15
Requires a defense of all lawful things that further the wealth and outward estate of ourselves and others.
Prohibits whatever deprives our neighbor, or ourselves, of lawfully gained wealth or outward estate.
vs 16
Requires the maintaining and promoting of truth between people, and of our neighbor’s good name and our own, especially in witness-bearing.
Forbids whatsoever is prejudicial to truth, or injurious to our own, or our neighbor’s, good name.
vs 17
Enjoins contentment with our own condition, and a charitable attitude toward our neighbor and all that is his, being thankful for his sake that he has whatever is beneficial to him, as we are for those things that benefit us.
Forbids discontent or envy, prohibits any grief over the betterment of our neighbor's estate, and all inordinate desires to obtain for ourselves, or scheming to wrest for our benefit, anything that is his.

*************************************************************************

Back to supporting Ron Paul: what you see above is a constitution of sorts. One that if followed, would make Ron Pauls America doable. And wouldn't you like to live in a place that all the people generally abided the above constitution? Sure, without the God stuff. But if you switch the God stuff to freedom or think of yourself and your liberty and your conscience as the "God"... just as an idea, for the purposes of a disscussion, of course.... then there would be need of very few laws. There certainly would be no need for a welfare state or military state and war would certainly be given the respect it has been starved. So why doesn't the Christian body support Ron Paul? Because they don't know he exists. If they did, they would support him. And if the Christians support him, and the radicals support him, and the industrialists support him, and the environmentalists support him.... well who's left to support the other guy? That is how my narrowminded path sees it.

The only reason to not support absolute liberty and the abiding principals of our constitution is because it's not realistic that a candidate running on that platform could win. I see that logic as insanity and treason. But I also understand that reality is what is actually happening and changing things is hard like cold steel. So no judgement...

But it sure is interesting...

Well, framed in that way... it's not an improvment. Agreed. But that you could move to the place that had your values is an actual step in the right direction. We can all be Americans and have different ideas about a few things... and not have to lord over each other. For example, in Alabama, abortion could be illegal. But it's legal in Florida. So that's a $40 bus ticket. Perfect? No. Close enough? Yup. This way the people who think that abortion is murder get to be right, and you get to have an abortion if you need one. Slightly regulated and functional.

Ron Paul is a classic, textbook Libertarian. If you think that a Libertarian is something else, you may want to do a little research. I can think of no better example of a classic Libertarian thinker. Not LP, either... actual Libertarian guy. Of course, this is just my opinion. I've been a Libertarian since 1986, whaddo I know... ;)

How about the teenager who wanted to switch to alternative medicine after chemo made him very ill? He and his parents had to sue the state of Virginia for *the state's* permision to dump the chemo. WTF?!?! They weren't even paying for it.

hamptonroads.com/2007/12/t...-high-note

Eddie,

Your answer was factually dissapointing.

You say Ron Paul "uses" the constitution to promote his own agenda, but in fact he has time and time again defended positions which he disagrees with personally............because of the constitution.

You keep bringing up abortion as if it is the great litmus test. It should be a states rights issue, and even literate pro-choice advocates can in moments of frankness admit that roe v. wade is a rather poor piece of constitutional law.