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Sad news from thye playa

topic posted Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:45 AM by  think
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This morning, at approximately 3:00 AM, during the lunar eclipse, the Man was torched atop the Green Pavillion. Fire crews were able to put out the blaze but the Man structure, while still standing, looks to be fully charred. This long time burner is pissed and sends along his deepest condolences to the Organization and the team that has worked so hard to put the event together. This is not a hoax.
posted by:
think
California
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  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:50 AM
    This is so fucked up. I don't even know how I feel. Arson on the playa. Whoever thought that concept would ever make sense? I guess if they catch the responsible party we'll get to see how dedicated to radical self expression we really are.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:54 AM
      Yeah, very, very fucked up.
      • The cost of too much exposure.

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:47 AM
        Great - so the growing exposure throughout the years of BM really HAS resulted in the decline of BM and it's spirit.

        I knew it - I knew it - I knew it....


        Now I can only fear for the direction of BM next year ~ people will be doing even more retarded things with the excuse of "radical self expression"..
        This is all why it's best that BM stays on the lay low and the hush-hush.. Because dumbasses from elsewhere hear about it, they do things to ruin it, it *makes the news*, and more dumbasses all over hear about it.

        So it'll likely be worse next year. fuck.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:36 AM
    please tell me this is a joke. I know you said it's not a hoax, but I can't find anything anywhere else about it. Please give more info to confirm. Thanks.
    • Statement from the playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:27 AM
      At approximately 2:58am local time, a fire ignited the Burning Man figure and the center Green Man Pavilion at the Burning Man event in Black Rock City, Nevada.

      Black Rock City Emergency Services Department units responded from Stations Three, Five, and Nine and put the fire out within approximately 23 minutes. There were no reported injuries. The Man is still standing, and an assessment is underway to determine the structural integrity of The Man and the Green Man Pavilion. The event will continue as scheduled.

      An arson investigation is currently under way, and is ongoing. There is no confirmed cause of ignition at this time.

      No further information is available at this time. More information will be released tomorrow morning after the investigation can safely be continued.

      -Andie Grace, Burning Man Communications Manager
      • Re: Statement from the playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:47 AM
        as perverted as it sounds, are there any pics floating around? I hope someone figures out who did it and justice is served. Could have gone a lot worse, yes, but still not cool.
        • Re: Statement from the playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:57 AM
          I know of a couple of people that havent flown out yet, and i know it's probably just heartbreaking for them.. i'm so sorry this had to happen.. but i hope someone beats the crap out of who ever did this. It's just childish..
          • Re: Statement from the playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 6:35 AM
            Oh dear.

            If he's still standing, he'll probably stand until he's ready to topple on Saturday. He's tough, fuck, he's The Man.

            The playa will be dark without his guiding light...

            and boy, if it was arson...the bad karma thats gonna fall on that person, holy shit.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Statement from the playa

              Tue, August 28, 2007 - 6:47 AM
              If it was arson?

              I'm sorry but I can't believe it could be anything else. Let's see, what causes things to catch fire:

              Lightning - no
              Focussed sunlight - no
              Unmonitored campfires - no
              Sparks from nearby fires - not likely

              The man only burns when he is lit intentionally. That is the way he is designed. This was intentional and unplanned. I would call that arson.

              Last year when we were cleaning up the piles of garbage left behind at our art project, the Sugar Cube, and surveying the playa after all the yahoos had finally left, we made a pact not to come back to Burning Man next year. Coming this year was a difficult decision to make but we wanted to give it one more chance to be the Burning Man experience that we have yet to have, after three years. Now the yahoos have truly taken over the playa.

              I am angry but I am not going to let this impact my upcoming adventure. It is my reality to create in any way I choose. The yahoos no longer exist to me.

              Sorry to ramble here but I am just waking up.
      • Re: Statement from the playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:56 AM
        Thank you BRC Emergency Services.
        In appreciation for the efforts of those who built him and those who got in there to save him,
        I'll be there in anticipation for the scheduled burn.
      • Re: Statement from the playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:03 AM
        Heheheheh heh heh... I love it!!!!! I thinjk it's kinda interesting at the least, especially with the phrase used: "...arson investigation." Hee-larry-ious. Screw your "arson" investigation. And screw everybody's "sadness"...As if this diminished the actual substance of the week in any real sense. This is pretty amusing and a tempest in a teacup.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Statement from the playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:17 AM
          Bullshit.
          The Sat night burn means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Everyone has the right to whatever it is that they want/need from this event, and for someone to hijack OUR experience is just selfish.
          • Re: Statement from the playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:10 AM
            "Rights" are a fiction. The commons or shared space, experience and symbol veers afloat a sea of constant renegotiation between everyone involved and the natural divergences of subjectivity ...And isn't the utilization of symbolism dependent more on investment and sincerity than the corporeal? Plus there are any number of "OUR experience(s)" to be bandied about... What makes you so all-fired definitive or declarative?
            • Re: Statement from the playa

              Thu, September 6, 2007 - 6:48 PM
              rights are a fiction? How about agreements? When you buy that ticket, when you walk in that gate, you agree to certain things...not setting fire to other people's art is one of them

              how about RESPECT, is that a fiction too? Integrity? How about not being a self centered asshole?

              all your deconstructionist sat words may have impressed people in your junior year at reed or whatever, but what flies in the real world is caring about other people and showing a little awareness that they have feelings, needs, and yes, rights.

              is that invested and sincere enough for ya?

              by the way, as far as investment and authenticity being more important than the corporeal ("mind over matter" might have been easier):

              that wasnt addis' decision to make, and this is the point you dont seem to get.


    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:02 PM
      Sorry Honey - it's true...




      Arrest made after Burning Man torched early
      40-foot effigy supposed to be set ablaze at end of counterculture festival

      Brad Horn / Nevada Appeal via AP
      Workers assess the damage to the so-called Burning Man structure in the Black Rock Desert in Gerlach, Nev., on Tuesday. A performance artist allegedly lit the structure on fire four days before the festival.
      View related photos

      MSNBC video

      Man arrested for torching Burning Man early
      Aug. 29: A man is arrested after allegedly torching the Burning Man four days early. MSNBC's Amy Robach reports.
      MSNBC


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      Updated: 7:45 p.m. PT Aug 28, 2007
      SAN FRANCISCO - Burning Man became Burnt Man four days early on Tuesday, and a San

      Francisco performance artist was arrested on suspicion of igniting the signature figure of the counterculture festival in the remote Nevada desert.

      The early morning fire scorched about 85 percent of the structure, Burning Man spokeswoman Andie Grace said.

      Event engineers decided it would be best to dismantle it and rebuild a less elaborate version, accomplishing in two days what normally takes weeks so the figure would be finished in time for Saturday night’s scheduled burning, she said.

      The approximately 40-foot-tall wood and neon structure was supposed to go up in flames in the ceremonial climax of the weeklong annual event.

      Burning Man, an art, music and performance festival that draws thousands of people, began in San Francisco in 1986 and moved to Nevada’s Black Rock Desert in 1990. That year, the effigy was accidentally cut up with a chain saw and had to be reassembled before the ritual burning, Grace said.

      Many festival-goers who were awake watching Tuesday’s lunar eclipse said they saw a man deliberately ignite the figure at about 3 a.m., Grace said.

      “It was in plain sight of many people,” she said. “Everyone is looking at it this morning, this big black figure in the sky and that wasn’t supposed to burn, saying, ’Now what do we do?”’

      No injuries were reported, and the festival’s in-house fire department, the Black Rock City Emergency Services Department, extinguished the fire in less than half an hour, Grace said.

      The fire also damaged part of the Green Man Pavilion, the exhibition space on which the figure was perched, Grace said.

      Suspect posts bond
      Paul Addis, 35, of San Francisco, was booked into the Pershing County, Nev., jail on suspicion of arson, illegal possession of fireworks, destruction of property and resisting a public officer, according to the sheriff’s department. He posted a $25,632 bond, a sheriff’s dispatcher said.

      Sheriff’s officials did not know whether he had a lawyer. No one answered at two phone numbers listed in his name.


      Addis is an actor and writer who is active in the San Francisco arts scene and recently portrayed Hunter S. Thompson in a play about the late journalist known for his drug-fueled lifestyle, according to entertainment listings posted on the Internet.

      Grace said she assumed the early burn was timed to coincide with the eclipse.

      “It’s obviously a pretty selfish act, and people are disappointed about that, but spirits overall are pretty high,” she said.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:38 AM
    I hope they catch whoever did this. so unbelievable.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:52 AM
      FUCK YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

      three years ago we talked about burning the man on Tuesday night. What would happen to all the order? What would happen to all the attachments and expectation? it would create a REAL BURNING MAN...without constraint.

      The only reason we didn't do it (cuz we had some real "ins" in the inside and could probably bribe them) was because of the safety issue.

      Other than that I say FUCK waiting til Saturday....rattle the damned cage. Burning Man is such a conglomerate, consumer, orderly, play by the rules, ho down that it's nice to see it get rattled.

      BURN THE MAN ON TUESDAY!
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:16 AM
        >Burning Man is such a conglomerate, consumer, orderly, play by the rules, ho down

        Then why are you in this Tribe? Why are you supporting Burning Man? Just to spread negativity and brainwashing from your guru?
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:39 AM
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:42 AM
            omfg...

            what the hell is wrong with people...

            im freaking so sad about this...
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:53 AM
              I have to say I am rather torn by this.

              On the one hand I think it really sucks that someone would do this and show such little respect. On the other, I am also thinking this may be a good shake up as someone has stated earlier.

              Each year we go to the playa to see the man burn on Saturday and the Temple on Sunday..... good, bad or indeifferent it is going to be interesting to hear the stories and the emotions coming from BRC after the event is over.

              Seems to me that they probably lost alot o0f the lighting on the man now and so people may be losing their way more often. Isn't there a new moon this year?????
              • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:04 AM
                oh shit, heathers back.
                don't forget my dear, you are brainwashed as well.
                as am i.
                they are called opinions.

                haha

                whatever people! COME ON CHEER UP!

                its the burn, get used to it.
                they used to light the whole city on fire.
                I understand our attatchments. for a second i felt bad too. . .
                then i said. ...what the fuck. . . fuck it.

                what are we really attached to.

                let .... it.....go..

                LOVE YOU ALL !!!
              • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:22 AM
                i wonder how this will effect the rising energy of the party over the week. the feeling of climax at the end. the temple is of course at a new level of amazingness this year.
              • Re: Isn't there a new moon this year?????

                Tue, August 28, 2007 - 6:59 PM
                There are 12 or 13 every year.


                Oh, you meant during the event.
                No, it's a full moon. All lunar eclipses occur during the full moon. Because that's the only time the earth's shadow could hit it.
                Now the year there's a solar eclipse on playa during the event--or even without the event...
          • so, um...

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:03 PM
            has anybody else noticed that the first topic under the "updates" column happened to be...

            "Today's Obituaries" :^o
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:39 AM
        If you don't appreciate the way of BM, then you don't even deserve being apart of it.


        It's unappreciative people who have ruined the overall vibes of BM over the past years - people who fuck things up for the Burner community (like the arsonist) and people like you not appreciating it for what it is.


        I'm sad to say that i'm glad I didn't go this year. population this year; 40 thousand? And next year... 45 thousand ~ about 22K will be of dumbasses who just don't have the BM spirit.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:08 AM
          God! I fucking hate those people who don't think like me!
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 11:32 AM
            Getting so tired of people comparing this to burning someone's art. THIS WAS NOT SOMEONE'S ART! I think at one time, the man was art, even though Larry told me he disagrees. Now it is a corporate logo that doesn't belong at an event that bans corporate logos. You can tell yourself that it is owned by the community, but try to capitalize on it and you will quickly see who really owns it. Yes, people toil on its construction every year as a gift to the community--dedicated and skilled craftsmen all, and maybe artists in their own right. But let's face it--in building the Man they are essentially sign fabricators. (I've been a sign fabricator myself.) They are not making an artistic statement by following the cutout pattern. The man is no longer art and Larry said it never was. Stop comparing this to burning someone's art.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:10 AM
    My reaction depends on the spirit in which it was done. If it was just some idiot raver, that's kind of fucked up, but I'm not sad.

    If it was a prankster, eh.

    Something in me smells a message, some rebellion, in this. There has been a lot of buzz about the event "selling out" this year, and this seems like the sort of thing one might do in protest. I find that kind of exciting. What can I say, my morals just do not agree with the anarchistic streak in me.

    Long live the spirit of Burning Man.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:15 AM
      I to smell a statement in protest of the rules and order. While I enjoy this cage rattling, I don't agree with burning up others creations. The only solution now, lock the creators and fire starter in the thunder dome, playa justice time!!!!
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:23 AM
        thats a funny solution! i actually like it...yeah, on to thunderdome!
        i think no matter what it still sucks for the virgins, and for all the people who worked so hard to build the structure and the man....weird how someone could really get away with it.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:27 AM
        yeah, i actually do agree with that Snow, I shouldn't deny the possible negetive energetic effects that get sent out through psyche's like wildfire.
        And yes, this is just another test of the playa. Yet, it is a bummer to have creations burned.

        I can feel the protest, and this act puts disorder on the table. A feeling that hasn't been felt at the playa for a while. (true disorder mind you).
        its weeds out fluff. but i can't say for good or bad or what that fluff is.

        All i know is that I would love to sit amongst the iron bars of the Thunderdome with you Snowlover and watch
        them duke it out for the Ultimate Answer to Realities Burning Question!

        "Who's right?"

        =)
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:23 AM
      I wouldn't jump to any conclusion, I showed up during the Man's premature immolation and talked to a guy who saw it start. He said there was an electrical sounding pop and sparks from the man before he went up and nobody was in sight, so it clearly wasn't some yahoo monkeywrenching.

      Pretty trippy and amazing that it should happen during the eclipse. I thought it had to be intentional when I saw him catch fire from the temple just because of the timing.

      I uploaded a few photos on my profile

      Peace and let's see where we go from here. I go to watch ya'll burn, not the man, but we'll figure something out. Press conference in Media Mecca at 11 I hear

      Karl

  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:21 AM
    Something must be done to appease the gods and goddesses of fire for this blasphemy. We must do what our ancestral tribesmen did and BURN A VIRGIN.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:26 AM
      Burn a Virgin!

      (We could Burn Heather)

      (easy easy ....it's called a joke, I happen to like Heather and all of her grit.)

      BURN BABY BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      =)

      I love Burning Man...
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:29 AM
    For those of you at the event. GET OFF THE FUCKING INTERNET!!!!

    C'mon, there's gotta be something more entertaining than watching us all chatter.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:34 AM
      hahahahahaha!!!!

      I just had a vision of a FarSide type cartoon.

      a guy is at a center camp computer kiosk.

      a bubble of thought above his head.

      "ooo, 3 new blog comments!"

      hahaha!
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:07 AM
      Ha, ha I so freaking agree, why you on tribe when you are on the playa? Wish I could be there, but , hey, circumstances are circumstances ;-)

      So, go, go, go, go you're at Burning Man, go, go go ;-)

      xoxoxo
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:09 AM
      When I was reading this that is all I can think of. Why the fuck are you posting on tribe when your on the playa??? I think people spending time posting here while on the playa is far sadder then the Man burning early. Actually it makes me even happier it happened.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:16 AM
        Word eddie!!! Get off off of the damn computer and get on with your burn. I can't wait to get back. 2 days in the default world is too much for me. can't wait till 5.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:33 AM
    I'm a burner virgin. I am sitting at work counting down the hours till I leave. This is heartbreaking to me. I cried a little.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:39 AM
      i'm sorry honey, please believe me, no offense mean't towards you or any virgins at all....we are all a bit overwhelmed, and it really does suck, but the best way to get passed the sadness is to try and put a little light on the subject. it is very heartbreaking, and yet some may say that it made the experience even more sureal for them..it's always been more about the people and energy of the city that's the make-up of BRC.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:59 AM
        True.
        Eyes dried.
        Deep breath.
        Still counting down the hours.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 12:07 PM
          Yeah no, this is fuct, but not totally fuct. A lot of very resourceful people out there, and knowing them the fire will probably be crazier on sat than it's been since the thing exploded in like 93 I think it was. They'll probably have to put some kind of additional flammable shit on it to make the charcoal burn, which will make it go up faster and be more intense.

          I definitely see the bright side of this for all you lucky fucktards already out there: You get to watch the man burn twice!!!

          For myself and my VIRGIN girlfriend however, and all my folks showing up late like me..........Not cool.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:36 PM
            Good point, fucktards get to see it burn twice.

            I'm to the point of offering a blowjob for a legit ticket just to bonzai out there Saturday to see it just once. I knew I should have shirked responsibilities and found a way to go.

            Next year for sure!
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:51 AM
    SAD NEWS MY ASS! This is the funniest shit ever! Why are you all taking this so seriously! This is the shit that Burning Man is all about! Pranks, and pranksters. Granted, I'm happy no one got hurt and if they find whoever did it, they're gonna wish they hadn't but, there's a little voice in my head, smiling and laughing and going, YAY! HA HA HAAAAA!

    ~Curt
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:12 AM
      It just makes me sad that people worked really hard to build that for the whole community to enjoy together and someone took that away because they thought they had a point to make or because they were a stupid raver kid who thought it would be funny.

      Don't set shit on fire that isn't yours to set on fire. I learned that in like first grade.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:22 PM
        "It just makes me sad that people worked really hard to build that for the whole community to enjoy together and someone took that away..."

        Thank you, Sweet D. As it's been said, the ass who set it on fire was selfish. SELFISH.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:55 AM
    BM Burns early

    Newsflash from Faux News: While still under investigation, we have it on good authority that the recent early morning blaze that damaged a famous iconic symbol of our liberal and left-leaning brethren (“The Man” of Burning Man) was, in fact, terrorist related. This should serve notice to all that none of us are safe from this threat and that we must be unified and vigilant against further attacks. Remember: There is a terrorist behind every tree.

    Headline from Momma Jones News: The recent damage inflicted on the well-known Burning Man figure is thought to be the work of radical members of an upper caste Jude-eieio-Christen sect that holds that the merits of capitalistic economic philosophy are sacred above all else. They were seen fleeing the scene while discarding robes and turbans. “I still recognized them by the W’s on their foreheads,” one witness said.

    Quick poll of Burning Man Tribe members: The hippies did it!

    Quick poll from The Hippies: The Ravers did it!

    One theory from the far side: All the negative vibes from this figure known as “Shooter” directed at Burning Man’s founder somehow coalesced at that time and place, resulting in a strange spontaneous combustion seen but once before and that long ago at some nondescript bush in another desert.

    My own theory: I think it was an art car (made to look like a cow) that tipped over a lantern nearby.

    Other theories welcomed.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:05 AM
      My theory: A good 2 thirds of all the "burners" are fucking nuts!

      The remaining third: are fucking nuts and winers!

      That's why I like going.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:05 AM
      Fucking Hilarious.

      Lighten up peeps. It's just A FUCKING WOODEN MAN IN A DESERT SURROUNDED BY 52,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE TO .....BURN IT!

      (humans. so entertaining.)
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:12 AM
      'Remember: There is a terrorist behind every tree.'

      not to mention behind every BUSH

      sad to see the artists' wishes to burn it ceremoniously at the culmination of the event get overruled and disrespected. but i guess that's life. create art, offer it to others, and what they do with it is THEIR shit.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:22 AM
        that was hilarious dusty feet!
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:24 AM
          its just a wooden man in the desert..
          and it also isn't...

          it's both a symbol of our attachment and a symbol of our freedom.

          I like to feel both ways about it.

          a big...awe! shucks.
          ...and a big Hellz Yeah!!!
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:25 AM
          Burning Man set ablaze today; one arrested
          CARLA ROCCAPRIORE
          RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
          Posted: 8/28/2007
          STORY CHAT(read or post comments) Zoom [+] Buy this photo


          CARLA ROCCAPRIORE/RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
          Someone set the Burning Man ablaze early this morning. Fire crews were able to put it out. The regular burn is still set for this weekend.


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          Burning Man set ablaze today; one arrested



          advertisement


          An arson investigation is underway and one person is in custody in relation to a fire that was unexpectedly set to the man early Tuesday at the Burning Man counterculture arts festival, attracting thousands of burners who watched in awe and speculated about how it happened.

          The official man-burning ceremony is scheduled late Saturday.

          Crews put out the fire in 23 minutes as staff worked to keep spectators behind a perimeter. The fire was reported at 2:58 a.m.

          The man was salvaged but singed and the Saturday celebration is still scheduled.

          Burners yelled things such as “save the man” and cheered as fire crews began spraying it with hoses. No injuries were reported and there is no confirmed cause of the ignition, a statement from Burning Man spokeswoman Andie Grace said.

          Rumors abounded but Burning Man staff said there was no confirmed cause about how the fire started. The pavilion underneath the man is closed until the structure is deemed safe.



          Check out the article. There is a photo.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:34 AM
        I love the theories! Damn, now I almost wish I hadn't taken this historical (hysterical?!) year off... yeah, I'm selfish, too, though my heart goes to the artists and their wares at the base of the man, in addition to the Man crew for all their hard work. I hope your playtech is ok, Sunshine and team!
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:27 AM
    I bet whoever did it was an enemy of freedom.

    Where are you hiding Osama on the playa, fuckers? Is he at Spikes? Is he chowing down at Spiffy Lube? Justice will be upheld.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:31 AM
    A bummed out n00bie here, thinking I am 10 years too late to enjoy what Burning Man is really supposed to be. Will there be guards and Playapolice, metal detectors, surveillance cams, background checks, next year?


    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:35 AM
      every burn is exactly what it is supposed to be.

      you are just in time my friend. =)
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:50 PM
        >every burn is exactly what it is supposed to be.

        Hmmm...good point, I still feel stoopid for not being out there like I knew I shoulda been this year.
        • What would the REAL Green Man Say?

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:11 PM
          "Watching the chaos, I couldn't shake the uncanny feeling
          that I knew about this already- that I had been,
          in some obscure corner of my soul, e
          ven waiting for it to occur..."
          --Daniel Pinchbeck (2012)

          How Green is this Man anyway?
          Is the Playa's Man really a Money Man?

          Do you all really think the
          REAL GREEN MAN OF THE EARTH
          is smiling as you drive, fly and burn all that gas
          to meet minds under the hot sun once a year?

          I think the whole 'idea' of a green burn is great.
          But if any of you really mean it,
          you won't just wear green and talk green but
          Act Green.

          It's easy for me to say this,
          writing from the east coast,
          very far removed from all this drama.
          I'm on the internet and it blows my mind that
          so many of you are online when you have
          all of BRC to see and be in?!

          Maybe the REAL GREEN MAN
          had something to say to all of you
          at the zenith of the lunar eclipse.
          This world is changing,
          we better wake up fast.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:53 PM
      <A bummed out n00bie here, thinking I am 10 years too late to enjoy what Burning Man is really supposed to be. Will there be guards and Playapolice, metal detectors, surveillance cams, background checks, next year?
      >

      C'mon, don't be so dumb. The prank is *exactly* what BMan is about. It was originally a Cacophony event, after all. What'd you expect? If you think you "missed out" maybe it's time to start your own art project. Run for mayor or something. Oh, wait, that's being done. Well, if you're creative you'll think of something.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:59 PM
        <A bummed out n00bie here, thinking I am 10 years too late to enjoy what Burning Man is really supposed to be. Will there be guards and Playapolice, metal detectors, surveillance cams, background checks, next year?
        >

        C'mon, don't be so dumb

        Gee thanks for the credit ---- I'm saying 'it's over' if shit like this brings in the trappings of "security" like everyone is kept subjugated with out in the day-to-day "world."
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:59 AM
          <Gee thanks for the credit ---- I'm saying 'it's over' if shit like this brings in the trappings of "security">

          Then it's time to start your own event or project or whatever. Events have lifespans. Events like BMan grow to the point where they attract so much attention that the authorities want their control. Remember the Japanese saying, "The tallest nail gets hammered down" (or words to that effect). It was inevitable that BMan would get the attention of the authorities. It is also inevitable that they will come down harder and harder as time goes by, to the point where they stifle the event and it goes away or morphs into something else. This sort of thing just happens when events grow.

          I'm not sure if there will be increased security next year because of this unscheduled burn. I personally don't think it will happen because of that. But I think it will happen simply because there are too many yokels now. There's too much trash, too much mooching, too much theft, too much everything.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:45 AM
    My theory -- ball lightning.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:48 AM
      i think we should just set off a few flame cannons inside the pavilion.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:56 AM
        I was out on the playa at the temple photographing the Full Lunar Eclipse last night about 3 am when a notice big flames accross the playa. THere was a lot of smoke and this pyrotechics didn't seem too "Green" to me.

        Then I realized it was the MAN!

        I biked over an checked it out.

        It was a trip as a crowd gathered and many of the usual aspects of the usual man burning assembled themselves. Art cars gathered around. Somebody yelled "Save the Man!" as usual and fire trucks came and actually did try to save the man!

        He's fully charred but the whole structure below him didn't burn, which is good because there was elaborate stuff down there that wasn't intended to burn.

        Many in the crowd wanted to just let the whole thing go up in smoke but in general things were orderly and folks volunteered to keep the crowd at a safe distance and everybody complied.

        It's an incredible coincidence (or not) that the Man burning during the peak of the full lunar eclipse. I talked to somebody who saw him catch fire and he said he heard electrical noises and saw sparks and pops before the man caught fire. It obviously wasn't a yahoo with a torch but somebody who know how the man is wired to burn could possibly have fired him up. Who knows? They don't know here in Media Mecca where there's a press conference in 30 minutes. Nobody who really knows anything (if they do) is talking.

        In any case, in Asia they regard these eclipses as dangerous energetically and often to rituals and takes baths to protect themselves. Perhaps it's superstition but the Man going up early last night felt like a meaningful omen. I felt like it fortold challenging and intense times approaching but heck it was 3am and I was already very sleep deprived.

        Nobody is saying yet what they are going to do about having a burning man burn this year. I don't care because I love the people and the energy, not the ritual, but the ritual is powerful. It will definately give us all something to think about and talk about.

        And that's a good thing. We all need to wake up

        Much love to all
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:14 AM
          As someone whoworks for the pro Pyro crew who "wires" the man to burn, nothing is wired up before SAT evening. Period. Sounds like electrical arc'g to me, not conspiracy.
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:32 AM
            this is a direct result of all the wanton ball-shaving you perverts have been babbling about all week. The LORD put that hair down there for a reason! You ball-shavers have forsaken the LORD, so he reached down from heaven and smited your precious "Man."

            you should all pray for forgiveness.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:30 AM
          "What would happen to all the order? What would happen to all the attachments and expectation? it would create a REAL BURNING MAN...without constraint. "

          I appreciate that as a hypothetical discussion. And if there were a way to conduct that experiment without infringing on and manipulating people I'd be interested. :)
          However, I hope the person responsible didn't use that as an excuse for the act. It would be using tens of thousands of people as guinea pigs for a single person's experiment to satisfy their own selfish curiosity. That kind of thing sounds exactly like the argument that people use when they dose someone with a drug without the person's knowledge or consent. Yeah, I'm broadening their mind, I'm giving them what they need, I'm breaking them free of constraints. Because apparently *I* am so enlightened that I know what everyone needs. IMO that's pseudo-metaphysical bullshit used to justify one person's arrogance and ignorance.

          Some people feel this was an appropriate act of radical self-expression, giving the event a much needed shake up. I don't agree. Radical Self-Expression is not a license to infringe on the experience of those around you. It is not a get out of jail free pass to inflict your beliefs or your will on the community. Burning Man is a balance of duality: continually balancing independence with community. When the community structure falls apart, so does Burning Man. The balance is critical. Freedom does NOT mean you can do anything you want, to anyone or anything, at any time. Just as one balances individual with the group, one must balance freedom with responsibility. Often the freedom is only available because of that responsibility.

          I see this as nothing less than an act of vandalism (curiously, a word I haven't seen others mention), one that will possibly be "justified" as performance art. It also seems cowardly that the guilty party has not stepped up to claim responsibility. If you're going to do something big that smacks of so much self involvement, than you should at least have the courage to take credit. (perhaps the person was taken into custody before they could do so)
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:42 AM
            ok, but it's already been done, and no doubt the person will be caught and held responsbile. so let the experiment begin.


            "However, I hope the person responsible didn't use that as an excuse for the act. It would be using tens of thousands of people as guinea pigs for a single person's experiment to satisfy their own selfish curiosity. That kind of thing sounds exactly like the argument that people use when they dose someone with a drug without the person's knowledge or consent. Yeah, I'm broadening their mind, I'm giving them what they need, I'm breaking them free of constraints. Because apparently *I* am so enlightened that I know what everyone needs. IMO that's pseudo-metaphysical bullshit used to justify one person's arrogance and ignorance."
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:54 AM
              words out that they have arrested/or taken into custody one man on burning the man....
              • Joyful news from the playa

                Tue, August 28, 2007 - 12:03 PM
                Just posting to correct the spelling of "the" in the subject line.
                • Re: Joyful news from the playa

                  Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:24 PM
                  Once upon a time, some people conceptualized, constructed, erected, and burned a sculpture of a man and it was Art.

                  That was a long time ago. The cookie cutter replica of that Art today is a carefully guarded logo of Burning Man Limited Liability Corporation, and as we all know, corporate logos are not permitted at the Burning Man event.

                  Of course, if you try to remove an instance of this violation from the event, you could be charged with a felony.

                  All hail the corporate logo at the center of the event! Let's all dance around it Saturday night to show our praise of corporate logos!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Joyful news from the playa

                    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:07 PM
                    >All hail the corporate logo at the center of the event! Let's all dance around it Saturday night to show our praise of corporate logos!

                    Okay, I admit, I hadn't looked at it that way until you pointed it out. To me, The Man and His Logo became a symbol, a beacon, a reminder, for me to get off my ass and do something to heal and evolve. The event has become a homecoming for me. Black Rock City has become my Home town. I just won't be going home this year unless I can score a ticket last minute.
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:52 AM
            hmm, I am a thousand miles away and thought this was a prank. So much for the corporate pavilion. I know that Tom and others put a lot of energy into the man base trade show and I am sorry for his loss.

            But a lot of people have pointed out that event has a lot more going on than Larry's stupid ideas, ideas that ultimately pay his rent and buy expensive art in his bachelor pad with our ticket money.

            Maybe next year they will have a better theme and start taking care of their workers instead of amassing a million dollars in profit by squeezing their volunteers for as much as they can, then discarding them.

            I can't wait to see who they arrested. Maybe it was Tyler Durdan.

            www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 11:58 AM
          Just left the BM press conference

          They are going to rebuild the man with Neon and all, and expect to pull if off in 2 days.

          It was arson and an unknown guy is in custody.

          see ya on the playa

          Peace

          Karl
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:49 PM
            Unknown guy, hell...the San Francisco Chronicle gave the name.....Paul Addis.....had fireworks.....

            Arson yes.

            Rebuild the man with neon and all...hell yes.

            People on the playa.....please.......get out there, volunteer, see what you can do to help......

            Burningman is SUPPOSED to be about community. There is no better time for burners to come together as ONE in the face of a seemingly unsolvable problem.

            It CAN be done.

            Peace, y'all.

            ^Rhino!
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:47 PM
    The Man isn't your god, I hope. But a lot of people are treating it this way. I think it's a hoot that someone torched the Man. I think John Law would endorse such a prank. Why? Because it dispels the myth of the Burning Man icon. Instead of arresting the guy for felony arson, people should be celebrating the prank! It cuts to the heart of what BMan is about, after all.

    And for all of you who think your religious icon has been destroyed, please, stop off on your way to the Reno RiteAid and purchase a life while you're at it.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:06 PM
      The guy should get a medal for bringing Burning Man back to its roots. An actual sense of anarchy and danger on the playa is something that has not been seen for years. The real crime is that this guy is going to have to spend years in prison for arson.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:15 PM
        Eddie, I agree that Anarchy and Danger have been gone from BM for a while now. But what the guy did is wrong and he deserves whatever he gets. He's a prick who didn't have any right to "attempt" to ruin the burn.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:45 PM
          <He's a prick who didn't have any right to "attempt" to ruin the burn.>

          How do you know he's a "prick"? Do you know him? Maybe he's just a prankster who wanted nothing more than to do something silly. And, the Man is silly. It's a dumb icon put up by people who pretend to "live off the land" and be "free of the grid" and who claim they are "living lightly on the land", but who load the Man with toxic neon tubes and toxic plastic wiring, and toxic flammables to allow the Man to burn in a bright ball of fire. The Man is the exact opposite of what it purports to be.

          Torching the Man is the best revolutionary act to come out of BMan in the last decade.


    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:02 PM
      >The Man isn't your god, I hope. But a lot of people are treating it this way.

      No, The Man isn't my god, he is a symbol and a cool event that has changed the way I see myself and the world. He has come to represent for me something to look forward to, to connect with other people through. In a twisted way, the Man has given me permission to be myself and not worry what others think.
      • Unsu...
         

        REWARD offered!

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:21 PM
        this is the best news i have heard about burningman since the last good year on the playa, 94....(sorry noobie greg, your WAAAYYYYYYY too late. try going to your local corporate shopping playa, i mean plaza, it will be the same thing as the "Green Man".)

        so, in the spirit of bicycle shooting ranges and mortar launches:
        if someone ****happens to burn the bitch BEFORE thursday night i may happen to offer them a $2000 reward to do so.....coz sometimes crazybeautiful shit happens.*******
        (& i would happen to do it myself, but i cannot even bare the stench of hippies....ohhhh, but i do so love mayhem)

        cheers!
        • Re: REWARD offered!

          Thu, September 6, 2007 - 9:12 PM
          do you know what mayhem means?

          1. Law The offense of willfully maiming or crippling a person.
          2. Infliction of violent injury on a person or thing; wanton destruction:
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:07 AM
        <He has come to represent for me something to look forward to, to connect with other people through. In a twisted way, the Man has given me permission to be myself and not worry what others think.>


        Well, then go out into the world and be on your way. I give you permission to be yourself and to not worry what others think. Will you treat me as a god now? You don't need a burning man symbol for that. You don't need me or anyone else for that.

        This is funny in a way. This is gay liberation and hippie movement and radical politics and all those things but now in the context of a burning plywood caricature. I grew up during the gay liberation era, so I learned to be myself at an early age. It's fascinating that there is a generation that grew up and has to have a burning effigy in the middle of the desert to show them the kind of thing I've been practicing all my life.

        Believe me, you don't need a burning effigy. Just imagine that you have one year left to live. What would you do with it? What would you do differently? How would you act? What kind of job would you do? What friends would you have? What hobbies would you do? Who would you romance?

        You don't need the Man as a crutch. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. Start from square one and embrace your new free life.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 3:54 PM
    sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi

    they arrested a man, paul addis of san fran, who appears to have an on-going problem with the event/organization.

    word is that they will have a man constructed and erected by friday. too bad all those folks who will find themselves workig solidly for the next 3 days will have to miss the event because one guy is a jackass. bet they don't find this vandalism to their art even remotely funny...

    be sure and bring your liquid love and whatnot out to those guys and gals, they'll need it.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:11 PM
      I googled his name and found this. If its the same guy he's been holding a grudge and finally acted on it.

      www.sfweekly.com/2002-09-1...he-editor/
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:30 PM
        I suspect that Mr. Addis will have the book thrown at him by the BM Org. Arson is a bad thing to have on your record. He'll also be banned from the event. As if that isn't enough, I'm sure that he'd probably rather not have his picture out there. I imagine there are just a few people out of 40 thousand who would like to let him know how they feel about his "prank". Sorry, burning other people's art is stupid. There are so many other ways he could have "protested" the pavilion, but those would have required creativity and wit to pull off.

        What an asshat.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:20 PM
      Maybe I am the only one that feels this way but the Temple burn - not the Man has been the most important event on the playa to me. I am pissed off nonetheless . Mandy and I are not going this year for the first time in 8 years but I am still not happy about this. My beloved Karma Chickens are all on the playa and I feel for them .
      There is something poetic about building him up again to burn him down - kinda like reviving a deathrow patient from a heart attack !

      Tapandy
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 4:31 PM
        you know, I realized after about an hour that I was already bored with this thing. I imagine many folks on the playa feel the same way by now.

        Really, all this guy (Paul) actually accomplished was to annoy a few thousand folks and make the volunteers work through their vacation instead of enjoying the event while they rebuild the man. He got his name in a few papers. but that's it. Nothing has changed. Less than half of the expected burners had even arrived by that time to witness it. The festival goes on as usual. There will still be a Man to burn on Saturday. The community just adapts, as it is skilled to do. No one's views, values, or behavior seem to be shaken up or changed.

        It comes down to just one asshat "expressing" himself for some artistic, political, or personal point with the end result being mere annoyance and a bit of drama for people to chat about for a few hours. wow, big friggin woo. So he goes down in history books as the Dennis the Menace of Burning Man. I can think of better accomplishments.

        eh.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:37 PM
          <Really, all this guy (Paul) actually accomplished...>

          Just for funzies, I have an idea about what we can do to Paul. Let's presume him innocent until found guilty.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:52 PM
            sorry Eric, I didn't mean to jump the gun there. I've read in numerous places that Paul was arrested and charged with arson, so I used his name. I'm referring to whoever the guilty party may be, if not him. Though I honestly have to say it doesn't appear as though there's much doubt on this one, nor that he's denying it. but yes, innocent until proven guilty. Let's not go slash his tires or something stupid, k folks? ;)
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Tue, August 28, 2007 - 5:53 PM
              That's for civil and criminal penalties. In the court of public opinion, there isn't necessarily any such 'presumed innocent' standard.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Mon, September 3, 2007 - 2:22 PM
                Yeah, people need a scapegoat and at least, now you've got a name to focus your hatred on.

                Blows me away how much of an oxymoron it is to be attached to the man.

                All he's guilty of so far is having fireworks and a distaste for the Borg.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 6:19 PM
    Waaaa!!! Noooo!!!

    I didn't get to go this year, but now I wish I had, now I want to hunt for yahoos and burn 'em at the base!
  • Re: Sad news from the playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 7:44 PM
    Can anyone vouch for the whereabouts of one Chicken John during the blaze?
    • Re: Sad news from the playa

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 8:44 PM
      Chicken is not stupid enough to commit any crimes. Of any kind. Ever.

      Does NO ONE on this tribe see the beautiful serentypical irony that Chris Radcliff bailed Paul Addis out of jail?

      Chris Radcliff is the closest thing to Hunter S Thompson that San Francisco (and the early BM scene) will ever have. I venture to say that it was the incredibly fearless anarchy of Chris that made BM much of what it was in teh first 10 years, and as annoying as he was, that special Chris sauce is what BM probably lacks today.

      from the Laughing Squid blog:

      comment by Chris Radcliffe
      on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 4:40 pm

      Mr Addis has been released from jail by my people. Over anxious black rock rangers were bitterly disappointed that they were not allowed to avenge their idol. The Pershing County Sheriff leveled automatic weapons at the hysterical floppy hatted minions of the idol as they led the SUSPECT to safety.
      • Re: Sad news from the playa

        Tue, August 28, 2007 - 9:23 PM
        Wasn't actually suggesting he did anything. I'm just surprised no one made the joke, seeing as he ruffles a lot of feathers here from time to time. People have been telling him to shut up in different threads for ages when he tries to make them think, and now so many have jumped on the bandwagon of bashing the event.
        • Re: Sad news from the playa

          Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:04 PM
          Chicken doesn't bash the event. He's a staunch defender of the brilliance of BM. He bashes burners.

          Bashing BM isn's a bandwagon - it's a valid perspective especially from from people who worked there and know the personalities that run it.

          "BM is like sausage, it's better if you don't see how it's made." - a current ranger captain.


    • Re: Sad news from the playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:12 AM
      Chicken was in SF up awake all night counting his campaign funds, hoping he's made enough to qualify for matching funds. He flew out to Reno this (Tuesday) afternoon. I saw him.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:11 PM
    I think any charges of arson should be dropped.

    This is f***ing Burning Man for Christ's Sake!
    People need to relax and stop taking themselves so damn seriously.
    The Man burned on Monday.
    I can see the humor in it (even though other people are "crying" and think "beatings are in order".)
    Yes, even though many people have worked on the Man.
    (BMorg is sitting on huge mountains of profit, so issues of cost/profit and control is more at hand.)
    Worse crimes happen out there all the time (including rape, assault), people die out there, and burners barely blink.

    Do people really think this guy should go to prison for this???
    I DON'T.
    I really don't think people are seeing the bigger real-life consequences of burying this guy.
    Arson is a felony, you go to PRISON.
    If you guys think someone should go to prison because the Man burned a few days early... You are totally screwed up.
    • re: proving guilt?

      Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:18 PM
      Not to mention the difficulty in proving a particular person is guilty for this.
      There are thousands of people there, most of them are tired, high, drunk, confused.
      and its 3:00 in the morning.

      So they grabbed this one guy...
      I doubt anyone can "prove" he did this.
      Definitely not enough proof to send a person to prison on.
      There are thousands of people there, smoking various things, shooting off fireworks, walking around with lighters in their pockets.

    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:04 AM
      > Do people really think this guy should go to prison for this???

      Assuming he's actually guilty? Damned right I do.

      I don't care that the man burned early. I wouldn't care if they stopped building it and burning it entirely.

      What I care about is that he crossed a line by destroying someone else's art. As the saying goes, "your right to swing your fist stops where my nose begins". The same thing holds true for radical self expression: fuck with your own stuff all you want, but leave other peoples' stuff alone. They have as much right to self-expression as you do.

      Would you also have supported it ff someone had used a torch to decapitate "Passage" (the large metal sculpture of mother and sun a few years ago)? Did you applaud when the dragonflies from the Lily Pond installation were stolen?

      Ah, but wait... maybe the difference is that the man was going to be burned a few days later anyway. In that case, should we go around on Monday and burn any art that will eventually be burnt? Never mind that the artist might have had more planned for it in the interim?

      Or maybe the difference for you is that the man is owned by a corporation (the org) rather than an individual? Never mind, of course, the individual efforts of those who designed and built it, nor the fact that other artists incorporate LLCs as well?

      Or perhaps, just perhaps, you just don't like the org, and that makes it okay to destroy their stuff. But in that case, what's to prevent someone who doesn't like you from destroying things that are important to you?

      The fact that some people seemingly worship the icon that was burnt doesn't make the burning any more of a crime, but neither does it make it less of one. Arson is arson. If this guy felt so strongly about things that he felt he needed to commit a crime, neither he nor anyone else should complain if he also has to do the time.

      As for worse crimes occurring out there: people do get upset, complain, and even take action to try to prevent them ("Bureau of Erotic Discourse" ring a bell?). The main reason you don't see as much discussion about rape and assault here is because you don't see fuckwits showing up to defend those crimes as radical self expression.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 8:08 AM
        Aren't you a HeeBeeGeeBee Healer?

        And you are saying someone should go to PRISON for this?
        Youve got to be fucking kidding me!
        Prison is serious shit, people. Although most Americans have not educated themselves about our terrible "justice" system and the true horrific state of our prisons, I suggest you all visit the Human Rights Watch website and read about it.

        You are all insane with wacked out priorities that you think someone should go to PRISON because the man burned a few days early and dampened your party.
        You are the biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever seen!
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 8:11 AM
          that is... I believe PapaBear is a HeeBee.

          And for a HeeBee to want some dude to go to PRISON over this is f***ed up.
          all the HeeBee's I ever met were actually nice well-grounded people who seemed to have some insight about the world.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:23 PM
          > Aren't you a HeeBeeGeeBee Healer?

          Yep, though I don't necessarily physically camp there on the playa every year. Who I do or do not camp with is irrelevant in any case. There is no single HeeBee way of thinking -- like burning man itself, that group is comprised of a number of different individuals, all of which are capable of making up their own minds.

          >the true horrific state of our prisons

          Yep, they're deplorable. Doesn't mean no crime should ever be punished, though. While prison is serious shit, so is arson.

          >you think someone should go to PRISON because the man burned a few days early and dampened your party

          Didn't dampen my party one bit. As I made very clear, I don't care whether or when the man burns. My problem is that the guy allegedly torched something that belonged to others. Radical self-expression is not a get-out-of-jail-free card that magically relieves you of the consequences of your actions.

          If you feel strongly enough about an issue to deliberately commit a crime in protest of it, you shouldn't be surprised if you are then prosecuted and punished for it. That's the tradeoff you have to weigh when you make such a decision. Perhaps you should look up the history of civil disobedience and read all about it.

          One side point: torching the man early and without safety precautions could easily have wound up injuring or killing people. Whoever did this acted without regard for the safety of others and got very lucky that nobody was hurt. Otherwise, even more serious charges might now be pending regardless of what it says on the back of the ticket.
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:04 PM
            In this case, the punishment would not fit the "crime".
            Doing hard time on a felony conviction over allegedly setting a wooden sculpture on fire (one that was made to burn anyway) is NOT justice.
            There are actually serious crimes out there, and our overcrowded (and badly run) prisons should be used for those situations.
            Not this.
            This is NOT a serious crime.
            As much as most of you seem to think.

            And yes, I still think you are all the biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever seen.
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:09 PM
              Not to mention, I read the interview with Paul Addis and he says that various people were involved, all of whom made it a point to clear the area before the "event".
              So these culture jammers were very Safety First! about the whole thing.
              They were actually responsible about it.
              And since this fellow actually worked on the Man crew previously, he was well-educated about the structure, nature of it.
              SO they were pretty safe, resposible, and well-informed sbout their culture jamming event.
              • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Mon, September 3, 2007 - 6:13 PM
                He may or may not have actually taken those precautions -- all we have as evidence are his words to that effect, which is curious considering he hasn't even admitted to being involved. I'm less inclined to take him at his word.

                Further, you are taking it on faith that he and his team actually have the expertise to ensure that the burn was safe. While he may have been involved in constructing the man at some point in the past, that doesn't guarantee he's an expert on the construction of the pavilion beneath the man, sufficiently knowledgeable in proper burn/demoliton procedure, or that his team (if it existed) actually had proper crowd control measures in place. Even if he did, there's no way he could guarantee the safety of those people whose job it was to fight the fire.

                Even assuming all that was taken care of, however, there's still the simple matter that the person who set fire to the man was destroying property that wasn't his to destroy.

                Perhaps you feel that shouldn't be a crime at all, in which case I wonder whether there is any case in which you consider destruction of another's property to be a crime (and if so, where you draw the line). Or perhaps you agree that it is a crime, but that prison is just too severe a punishment, in which case I'm curious what you think an appropriate punishment would be?
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 11:33 AM
        I agree that it's not cool to destroy someone's stuff. There are A LOT of volunteers that put their hard efforts into putting this event together and building the "man" structure, not to mention so much else around this event. I've volunteered in the past and for this guy to do this is a disgrace. It's stealing people's hard work and outright vandalism! Sure, the organization has folks rebuilding the damaged "man" for Sat. and I'm sure the event will move forward and onward. I've seen this event grow since my first time in '95 and the larger it grows the more possibility there is for the balance to shift. I remember when the lilypond dragonfly's were stolen and I was outraged. That artist was out there everyday wiping the dust off and caring for his art. I've had an artist gift me with a metal daisy from his hundreds that he was deinstalling and the work that went into his art installation was amazing to me. A few years back my bike got ripped off during the night and I spent the next few days searching everywhere for it....I again was outraged and so disappointed. I got over it, I wasn't going to let the jerk who ripped off my new bike spoil my burn and it didn't.

        Respect for the artists, volunteers, & BM staff, oh & your neighbors, oh and the bicycles!!
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Tue, August 28, 2007 - 10:42 PM
    Paul Addis and Chris Radcliff For president 2008 !
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:18 AM
      I say FUCK YEAH! Have all (well not all but alot ) of you forgotten what this event is about?
      RADICAL SELF EXPRESSION!!! If you can't deal with that then go to a county fair or a rave. This is neither! This is the best thing to happen to bm in years.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:42 AM
        That's a pathetic way of "radical self expression", dumbass.


        They may be 'radical self expressors', but Burners also respect the community they all share - well, atleast most Burners.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:04 AM
          I'm not sure what he did was necessarily disrespectful to the community. He may have done it out of love and respect for the community. Who knows?

          Pushin' boundaries is always risky business, but if there is a good place to take that risk, its BM.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:07 AM
            "self expression" feels like a cliche to me.

            Not that the category of acts that "self expression" describes are cliche, but that the phrase fails to really capture or describe the thing its trying to describe.
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:39 PM
              B,
              People worked absolutely hard on their work - and especially to expect it to be burned at a certain time for thousands of others to enjoy it at once, he ruined that for many to enjoy the scene. But that enjoyment is only a partial result-issue he caused.
              Of course, I wasn't there to see, but I'm pretty sure he endangered some lives, even if there was no one around/near the effigy.
              It was selfish and greedy for him to do that - to enjoy the burn for himself(and a few fortunate others), and to risk the safety of potentially many others.
              Also, keep this in mind: this guy's actions pretty much (potentially)ruined the way of BM for future Burn festivals. The organizers(and possibly state government) will probably dramatically change certain Burn' policies to ensure safety and other bullshit(kinda like the system we suffer within this War On Terror™). I was hoping to go next year. I know BM has been slowly deteriorating over the past few years as I hear, but still, this guy sped up the process of deterioration. Even making the news of what's going on draws more attention so that's going to attract even more morons like him.

              In conclusion, I have to say I definitely agree with 'Ms.Dynomite' - people should just move on from the issue and enjoy the rest of the fest.
              The present Burners can make the most of the BM experience by simply doing that: making the most of it, and having a good one.
              The 'arsonist' already likely has an unpleasant reputation around his hometown of SanFran and in BRC - if he's guilty, then allow his appropriate destiny happen.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:02 AM
        RADICAL SELF EXPRESSION!!!

        Is this the new battle cry of the vandal?
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 12:07 PM
          Vandalism? HE WAS GOING TO BURN ANYWAY!!!

          OK - what I'm learning from this is that people have no clue about where BM came from. The Suicide Club, The Cacophony Society, The Billboard Liberation Front. Burning Man was founded and created by CULTURE JAMMERS.

          Does the Billboard Liberation Front do vandalism? According to Clear Channel and CBS Outdoor - yes. According to the culture jammer - no. It's HACK. It's a Culture Jam. THAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF BURNING MAN.

          SOMEONE HACKED THE MAN. Love it, enjoy the fact that someone can culture jam the culture jammers.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 12:26 PM
            "Does the Billboard Liberation Front do vandalism?"

            uh yeah, actually. ;) doesn't mean I don't agree with some of their liberations. but at least I do admit that it's vandalism.

            I think the difference here is that The Man was a community piece, while defacing a billboard affects a single entity (a corporation) not the community at large. There are also different principles/guidelines for the BM community and event than for corporations or outside society. In addition, when a billboard is defaced people are paid to replace it. If it's insured then the corporation doesn't even lose money. When somone vandalizes The Man, people are not paid to rebuild it. The materials are not free. So a bunch of volunteers have to devote their personal time to clean up the mess of a single individual, instead of experiencing the festival. I don't really think the 2 things can be put in the same bucket.
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Wed, August 29, 2007 - 12:40 PM
              When a billboard is defaced (not that I'm against it!) it can affect the community whose food on their table comes from the corporation who paid for the billboard, or the insurance company who covered them. If people are not paid to rebuild the Man, then guess what--there is no gun at their head to do diddly-squat. They can laugh about it with the rest of us and devote their personal time to experiencing the festival. If nobody rebuilds the corporate logo that is the Man, then no materials need to be bought. Nobody asks for ticket refunds. Nobody fails to buy a ticket because the corporate logo isn't up. There is really no loss at all. Talk about the same bucket!
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:25 PM
                "If nobody rebuilds the corporate logo that is the Man"

                I don't buy into the idea that the effigy of The Man is a corporate logo. They could make an effigy of a huge wooden pig and the event would be the same. That would probably be better anyway... just think, some bacon and smoked meats while you watch. ;) If you feel the burning man logo is somehow infringing on you with corporate branding, then don't use it on your signs or shirts or anything else. But the effigy is not the logo, nor is it the sum of the event. :)
                • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                  Wed, August 29, 2007 - 10:37 PM
                  Ms. wrote:

                  "They could make an effigy of a huge wooden pig and the event would be the same."

                  That is EXACTLY what John Law wanted to do - he thought that the man would become a central icon which people would end up worshipping and he wanted to change it every year. Giant duck. Pig. Stop sign. etc.

                  Guess who nixed that idea. Yup. Larry. Who would vehemently claim that the man was not an icon and was despensible to the event - while at the same time promoting it AS an icon and using it on all promotional materials. He had a shit fit when John put a neon smiley face on the man. John had defaced his idol and he demanded it to be removed.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Sad news from thye playa

                    Wed, August 29, 2007 - 11:42 PM
                    "He had a shit fit when John put a neon smiley face on the man. "

                    now see, that kind of subversion I totally support. :) It's doesn't destroy others' work, it doesn't put anyone at risk, it doesn't infringe on anyone's good time (unless you're morally opposed to smileys), it doesn't interfere with the burn itself. it's basically harmless and clever.

                    If someone had made a stealth duplicate of the man (likely smaller), made it mobile and continually moved it around during the week to mess with people's orientation I think it would be great. If someone had managed to turn off the main man's neon (WITHOUT damaging anything) so the duplicate man was seen instead, that would have been even more funny. If someone had made a Burning Woman or a Burning Chicken, again funny. And all of those things would still serve to get the message across that the effigy should not be a worship idol, people should participate and people shoulud expect the unexpected.

                    hell, we've even talked about what it would be like to have a random burn night each year. So no one but the safety staff and performers knew when it would occur. Of course then we realized that the main reason the man burns on the same night is because it's the only way to let people know what day it is and when to go home. like the bartender flicking the lights going "ok, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here" ;)

                    Along those lines I was talking with some friends tonight and we were discussing the idea of a Back Of Your Ticket Camp. A place to remind people that it's not Disney World. Broken glass, razor wire, those electric fence things. It was cracking us up. Unrealistic, but I think the general concept is fruitful. ;)
                    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 12:28 AM
                      <It's doesn't destroy others' work, it doesn't put anyone at risk, it doesn't infringe on anyone's good time (unless you're morally opposed to smileys)>

                      But Larry though it was destroying his work and infringing on his good time. Others may have felt the same.

                      <If someone had managed to turn off the main man's neon (WITHOUT damaging anything) so the duplicate man was seen instead, that would have been even more funny.>

                      The neon crew, and in fact the whole Man crew may feel this was destroying their work and infringing on their good time. (Most have a better sense of humor, but...)

                      Don't get me wrong. I think your ideas are funny, and I DO get your point that nothing would be irrevocably harmed. There will still be people up in arms that you messed with their icon and ruined their burn just the same. And what if emergency services got a call about someone needing medical attention at the Man, and they didn't know which Man? Then people would be yelling manslaughter all over again. You just can't win.

                      I think you should have Back Of Your Ticket Camp, but instead of broken glass, razor wire, those electric fence things, you should just have art. Isn't that back-of-the-ticket enough?
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Sad news from thye playa

                        Thu, August 30, 2007 - 11:11 AM
                        Eric,

                        I hear what you're saying. There's no way to do something large out there without ruffling someone. Heck, there's no way to do something small without ruffling someone. With that many people you can't possibly do something that will please everyone. Fortunately in the vast majority of cases if you don't like someone's art or expression you can simply look/walk away. :) You might be offended or irritated for a few seconds, then you move on and it passes without any real harm done. If we want the freedom to express ourselves we have to be willing to allow others the same. The problems occur when someone crosses the line, but it seems mostly kept in check.

                        It sounds like you got my general gist though, that here are ways to introduce an element of chaos or the unexpected without actually harming anyone or anything and without significantly infringing on the whole population for the inclinations of a single individual. I think it's all a matter of degrees out there.

                        Re: camp... we meant Back of Your Ticket as in the back of your ticket states you accept the risk of death or injury by attending. We couldn't really have broken glass (a pain to clean up) nor electric fencing (too expensive), it was just a running joke. :)
                • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                  Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:03 PM
                  ehhhhhh..... while I don't think it infringes on anything of mine, it is most assuredly a corporate logo.

                  Case in point: When Pami paints the signs for Toast!, if she wanted to use an image of "The Man", she technically needs the Borg's permission. As does anyone else who makes and distributes ANYTHING with the image of "The Man". Now.... do they enforce such things? Not yet. (unless you're selling such items, in which case you can bet your ass that the Borg wants their cut)
                  So, yeah...the effigy IS the logo...just because it's three dimensional instead of a printed image doesn't diminish that...does it?

                  A similar situation exists with Decompression. Yes...the Borg actually owns the rights to the word decompression....you can look it up for yourself at the US Patent and trademark office website.

                  And yeah... the Man is not the sum of the event, as Mr. Harvey has stated many times.

                  Rat
                  whocouldbemisinformed...letmeknow.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Great coverage on Laughing Squid. laughingsquid.com/tag/paul-addis/

                    Also, read Larry's reaction here: blog.wired.com/underwire/...will-g.html
                    • Re: Sad news from thye playa - Letter from Paul (?)

                      Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:13 PM
                      Thanks Genie for posting the article.
                      Based on Larry's reaction:
                      "Larry Harvey, Burning Man's co-founder and director, was on a platform in his camp watching the eclipse when he noticed his Man on fire. Once realizing that the fire was under control and no one was apt to be hurt, he says, his immediate reaction was laughter.
                      The early burn, he said, will help show that the Man itself is "nothing but a wooden doll," and that the event is really about the joint effort of attendees to create it. It will turn this year's Burning Man into a "narrative of community and redemption" as the attendees get to see or assist in the public rebuilding of the statue, he said."

                      ... it seems hardly worth calling a felony arson.

                      • Self serving message of anger and discontent

                        Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:19 PM
                        The Green Man Pavilion contributors worked for ten's of thousands of hours on projects and one egocentric man named Paul Addis destroyed their offering for his own self serving message of anger and discontent.

                        www.burningman.com/environm...tion.html
                        • Re: Self serving message of anger and discontent

                          Mon, September 3, 2007 - 3:03 PM
                          <Self serving message of anger and discontent
                          The Green Man Pavilion contributors worked for ten's of thousands of hours on projects and one egocentric man named Paul Addis destroyed their offering for his own self serving message of anger and discontent.>

                          Talk about self serving! In a different place you posted "we" worked for tens of thousands of hours when you didn't have anything to do with it. You were taking credit for other's peoples projects and taking possession of other people's loss. Why don't you let people who actually worked on the Pavilion speak about their own loss, if they feel there was any.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Sad news from thye playa

                    Thu, August 30, 2007 - 3:05 PM
                    Hey, Rat. :)

                    Sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was saying that on a personal level I don't feel that I'm looking at the logo when I look at the effigy. What they burn isn't important. It seems to be that the point of burn night is to simply focus energy, efforts and attention. Which is a common thing to do in many rituals and gatherings. :) Plus, without it no one would know when to go home. ;)

                    But yeah, on a legal level the logo -- that thing that looks like this: )'( -- is entirely separate from the wooden effigy constructed. The two are not interchangeable when it comes to trademark or copyright laws. At best, the org could have a *specific* image of the effigy protected, but that still is not the same as their graphic logo. The org may be able to copyright or trademark a specifc image containing both, in a specific arrangement, but that's all.

                    The )'( logo itself can be trademarked, a phrase or name can be trademarked. However to the best of my knowledge an object cannot be trademarked. Images or graphic representations of the object may be trademarked, but not the object itself. You can patent the process of creating an object, but again the object itself is not covered. Since the effigy seems to change somewhat each year, this makes it even more unlikely that the effigy itself would be protected by such laws. If you take a picture of the effigy, you own that image. if you use images of the effigy owned by the org you may need permission if they are protected.

                    For example, Hershey can trademark it's brand name and logo, it can copyright the design of it's packaging, it can patent the formula for the chocolate... but the chocolate bar itself becomes the property of the consumer.

                    The sort of loophole is that you can copyright a design, but that's particularly tricky to do since you have to prove it's wholly unique (copyrighting clothing for example is very difficult). It is possible that the org copyrighted the design of the effigy, in which case they could restrict people from taking photos of the effigy and control use of those images. (This happened with the Eiffel Tower.) I believe that copyrighting the design would also mean they could legally prevent others from creating an effigy based on that design.

                    However, I haven't seen any signs of that. If so, there would be org people removing cameras from attendees during the event, along with notices of violation for every person who took a photo of the effigy. And again, since the effigy appears to change slightly each year I believe that would require an official copyright process each year for the different design. It's possible that they have copyrighted the design of the man and just aren't bothering to enforce it when it comes to personal use, only professional or organization use.

                    So on a legal level the effigy is not the logo (the logo is under protected use as I understand it). The org may find some way to protect imagery or use of imagery of the effigy itself, but it is still distinct from the logo.

                    On a personal level, I don't feel I'm a victim of branding or corporate identity just by looking at the effigy. Sure, it's become an iconic symbol of the event, but that's mostly because it's one of the very few consistent visuals from year to year. I really couldn't care less what's actually burning. And I don't believe we're all cattle being branded (oh the pun ;) just by looking at it. Then again, maybe I just don't give it that much power myself. :)

                    I hope that makes sense.
                    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 3:18 PM
                      Ms. Dynomite,

                      So someone could put on an arts festival in the desert, call it Burning Wooden Doll, and have Dale build an exact replica of the effigy without stepping on any legal toes?
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Sad news from thye playa

                        Thu, August 30, 2007 - 3:37 PM
                        "So someone could put on an arts festival in the desert, call it Burning Wooden Doll, and have Dale build an exact replica of the effigy without stepping on any legal toes?"

                        no. :) especially not if the org copyrighted the design of the effigy. I think you may have misunderstood some of those points. :)

                        If the org officially copyrighted the design of the effigy, then no you could not make an exact replica. If they did not get an offical copyright (where you send in the papers and stuff), they can only submit an infringement claim which would have to be reviewed to see if they could legally claim design infringement (again, this is really hard to do and it's hard to predict the output because there are so many factors involved). Technically, every image (such as a photo) you create is automatically copyrighted. However, when it comes to designs that rule does not apply. You would have prove a number of factors, such as first use and uniqueness.

                        As far as using a similar sounding name for a similar type of event, that can be problematic if the name could be deemed to cause confusion. For example, hosting an event called "Burning Kids" might be problematic because the general population could confuse that to be part of the separate BM event. Especially because the location and content are similar. Now if you made a hemorroid cream for kids and called it "Burning Kids", that would be a different issue. ;)

                        copyright/trademark law is tricky and complex.
                        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                          Thu, August 30, 2007 - 5:00 PM
                          <Now if you made a hemorroid cream for kids and called it "Burning Kids", that would be a different issue.>

                          I LOVE IT! Can we hold a festival in the desert and burn a large wooden kid (ignited from the rectum) for the product kick-off?
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Sad news from thye playa

                            Thu, August 30, 2007 - 5:35 PM
                            "Can we hold a festival in the desert and burn a large wooden kid (ignited from the rectum) for the product kick-off?"

                            only if I can be the one to ignite it by shooting a flaming arrow up it's butt. ;)
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:05 PM
            re: "It's a Culture Jam. THAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF BURNING MAN. "

            Yes.
            • Paul Addis Arraignment

              Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:11 PM
              Arraignment is scheduled for Sept. 25 at Pershing County Courthouse in Nevada.

              www.pershingcounty.net/districtct.htm

              The current Judge and staff of the Lake Township Justice Court are:

              Justice of the Peace – Carol A. Nelsen
              Senior Court Clerk – Karen Stephens
              Court Clerk II – Sheila Reitz

              Lake Township Justice Court
              400 Main Street
              P.O. Box 8
              Lovelock , NV 89419

              Phone: 775-273-2753
              Fax: 775-273-0416

              www.pershingcounty.net/justice.htm

              ***

              Gonzo, a Brutal Chrysalis

              Seattle Dates:

              September 20-22 and 27-29 at The Freehold Theatre, 8PM
              October 4-6 Capitol Hill Arts Center (CHAC Showroom), 8PM

              LA Dates:

              Oct. 12-14, 19-21, and 27-28 at the Whitmore-Lindley Theater
              11006 Magnolia Blvd
              North Hollywood, CA
              (818) 761-0704

              www.gonzoduke.com/about.html

              "Gonzo, a Brutal Chrysalis presents the life of Hunter S. Thompson, Producers quietly accept full responsibility" . . ."Everyone reserves their own rights."

              ***
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Wed, August 29, 2007 - 11:35 AM
    I agree that it's not cool to destroy someone's stuff. There are A LOT of volunteers that put their hard efforts into putting this event together and building the "man" structure, not to mention so much else around this event. I've volunteered in the past and for this guy to do this is a disgrace. It's stealing people's hard work and outright vandalism! Sure, the organization has folks rebuilding the damaged "man" for Sat. and I'm sure the event will move forward and onward. I've seen this event grow since my first time in '95 and the larger it grows the more possibility there is for the balance to shift. I remember when the lilypond dragonfly's were stolen and I was outraged. That artist was out there everyday wiping the dust off and caring for his art. I've had an artist gift me with a metal daisy from his hundreds that he was deinstalling and the work that went into his art installation was amazing to me. A few years back my bike got ripped off during the night and I spent the next few days searching everywhere for it....I again was outraged and so disappointed. I got over it, I wasn't going to let the jerk who ripped off my new bike spoil my burn and it didn't.

    Respect for the artists, volunteers, & BM staff, oh & your neighbors, oh and the bicycles!!
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 12:39 PM
      I just don't think bikes and stealing art is really the same thing. There is something special about the man, people make it special, and what Paul Addis may have been using that "specialness" to make a point. He was expressing something that may or may not have been worth expressing (I hate the word "self-expression", there's more to this kind of expression I think than just the self. Self-expression is like "I want some chocolate!" artistic expression is more like trying to evoke something deeper that the artist feels may be in all of us. I see it as something deeper, something moving through the artist.). But maybe it was worth expressing. I kind of see the possibility.

      I'm asking myself these questions:

      --Was what he did a sincere attempt to express something?
      --Was it worth expressing?
      --and, I think most problematic for those trying to defend him: was it SAFE to express it without hurting anyone (and by hurting I don't mean making them whiny).

      The first 2 questions I'm thinking may be possible yes, and maybe even a fuck yes! The first one really depends on where HE was coming from.
      The second one is harder to say, but it certainly seems to have evoked a lot of feelings in people, and while some of us seem to be not enjoying those feelings, others of us are enjoying them and pondering them. It certainly got me thinking, honestly, on this level I think it may have been absolutely fucking genius, provided it was sincere.

      The last one is again most problematic. He may have put people in danger. If someone was at risk of getting hurt then it was definitely a stupid thing to do. But I don't know how much he put into this or if you calculated that. (there is some inherent calculations of this sort in any art on the playa. A lot of art on the Playa isn't %100 safe, as can be evidenced by a few unfortunate incidences. Basically, was someone more likely to be hurt by and art car than they were this? Provided there were good answers to (1) and (2), I think any slight risk, say comparable to the risk of driving a large piece of moving metal across the playa at night with drunk people staggering around, then I say maybe it was OK. But its hard to say if this is the case. I'm not an expert on the structure of the man. Was there a possibility of people being trapped? Did he do anything to minimize that possibility.)

      Also note, even given the worst possible answer to the safety question, its still possible (1) and (2) have positive answere, but the fact would still remain it was a stupid thing to do.

      Should he go to prison? I think these questions should be asked when considering how he is charged and sentenced.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:10 PM
        I say, "You do the crime, you pay the time".

        Regardless of what he did, fact of the matter is he disrespected someone else's creation/property and that is what is so very wrong about the whole thing in my eyes, period.

        But, it is BRC and the burn will go on and the man will rise again, as usual. Just makes me feel sad to know our "community" is attracting individuals of this nature ;-(
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:22 PM
          "Just makes me feel sad to know our "community" is attracting individuals of this nature ;-(
          "

          are you kidding me?
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:31 PM
            shiva in full effect, full lunar eclipse and all, destroying the old to open the door for rebirth.

            it seems to be in the true spirit of what the event used to be like, dangerous, anarchic, unpredictable, exciting, etc etc etc etc..
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:35 PM
          Our 'community' attracts the creme de la freaks
          as well as people who are J.Crew by day and tattooed carnies by night .

          Embracing individuals of every sideshow nature is what makes Black Rock City possible.
          Attracting them is what makes it magic.

          Us and them?

          Us vs. them?

          who gets to judge the other?






          We are the music makers; we are the dreamers of dreams.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:27 PM
      right on cal, well put! its pretty annoying that people want to be " chaotic" at the expense of others hard work. its bullshit and a lame ass excuse. you want to burn the man on tuesday so bad, well how about you build your own man to burn? its people with these lazy ass ideas that are spoiling burning man. bunch of lazy ass critics with nothing to bring for others, just want to boo hoo about this and that. stay home you fucks. leave burning man to the artists and the peolpe who want to bring a postive vibe to the gathering. just sad.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:33 PM
        it never used to be a lame-ass hippy love-fest....was never meant to be either, I'll bet if you could go back 20 years and tell Larry about it he would have been all for it.


        CALIFORNIA UBER ALLES!!!!!!!!!!!!
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:52 PM
          I understand completely what you are saying but this was just an asshole thing to do. And, my burn experiences from BRC to regionals to small backyard "burner" gatherings is always full of love for each other, hippies or not ;-)
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:52 PM
        >> just want to boo hoo about this and that. stay home you fucks. leave burning man to the artists and the peolpe
        >> who want to bring a postive vibe to the gathering. just sad.



        Ha ha -- this is hilarious!

        What's "sad" is your hypocrisy... you & so many other burners are pathetic!

        You are so blinded that you've lost sight of the mission (maybe you never "got it" in the 1st place).

        Sitting out there on the playa @ Google's kiosk camp; what a joke!

        Keep whinning like lil' babies... it's very amusing :)






        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 1:58 PM
          ooh the mission of ruining others hard work.....ooh sign me up! how can I be a hypocrite without even remotely doing anything like this? and maybe "my mission" is different then yours......and maybe I dont want "to get" your bullshit. Im jsut saying if your art form is wreckin other peoples art, thats just poor form and extremely selfish. just sad you dick.
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:04 PM

            The mission: detachment & freedom

            Conclusion: You obviously don't make a living (or have trouble parting) with of your art.




            *Call me a "dick" to my face tough guy ;-)








            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:13 PM
              it's hard for me not to laugh at the irony

              hahahahahahahaha

              • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:17 PM
                While googling "Interview with Paul Addis," to see what the perp himself had to say of his actions, I came across someone's very interesting take on this. Have a read, at www.dosenation.com/listing.php It sort of reminds me of the "Peaceful Warrior" movie, when he takes him up this hill on a quest for a very special object, and then just shows him a rock. Expectations and perspectives are a powerful shaper of our "reality"
                • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                  Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:51 PM
                  So....seems the "event/"community" has changed so much since the good old days huh?
                  It's sold out, the Org is ruining the event, Lary Harvey is only in this for the money, they mistreat and underpay the voulenters, there's too much emphasis on the corporate "logo" etc.....
                  So then:
                  Don't go back to Burning Man ever again.
                  Burn your furry costumes.
                  Peel the BM sticker off your car.
                  Quit this Tribe.
                  Start your own thing and donate all profits to charity.
                  Get the fuck over it.
                  "It" isn't yours anymore, never really was.

                  P.S. Most of you sound like a bunch of whiny ravers after their party got busted.

                  P.P.S .Everyone's laughing at you.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Sad news from thye playa

                    Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:44 PM
                    Sorry Monkey but you're the one that is whining.

                    "Don't go back to Burning Man ever again. "
                    I'm not as long as idiots like you are there needing rules and schedules so you don't burn yourself playing with matches.

                    "Burn your furry costumes."
                    Never owned any but I know you do because of your need to look like everyone else to show what an individual you truly are.

                    "Peel the BM sticker off your car."
                    Fuck you they remind me of many many wonderful moments on the playa.

                    "Quit this Tribe."
                    Fuck you again. So radical inclusion to you is that you accept everybody as long as they think like you?

                    "Start your own thing and donate all profits to charity."
                    Bust my ass for charities all year round. What have you done monkey boy?

                    "Get the fuck over it."
                    Take your own advice and let the adults talk and laugh about this sillyness.

                    ""It" isn't yours anymore, never really was."
                    Not yours either but according to the "org" it belongs to all of us. Even whiney little monkey boys in fake fur uniforms such as yourself.
                • Re: Sad news from thye playa

                  Wed, August 29, 2007 - 3:26 PM
                  from article:

                  "You have no idea how many people are specifically complaining because "this one guy had to ruin MY ENTIRE BURNING MAN EXPERIENCE". All I can say is that if your ability to enjoy Burning Man depends on having your expectations met, rather than challenged, then you should really go do something else altogether. Or, an alternative point of view is that Burning Man really is a place where you ought to be able to go back year after year and safely recreate the same experience you've grown comfortable with.

                  Personally, I find that my toilet is an excellent place to recreate an experience I've grown comfortable with, year after year. I'm glad it is, and I sure wouldn't want to live without that, like people used to before the benefits of organized society... But when I go to Burning Man, I fully expect to be challenged. And to have to do a lot of unplanned extra work, too, for that matter! When I want a relaxing vacation, I go somewhere else. I'd think DPW people would have figured that out by now, too."

                  ------------

                  except most of the complainers are taking issue with something that happened at an event that they are NOT EVEN AT where NOBODY WAS HURT.

                  unless the point is it COULD HAVE. then i better hurry up and start getting upset over all the shit that COULD HAVE happened to me throughout my whole life. this could take a while.
            • Re: Sad news from thye playa

              Wed, August 29, 2007 - 2:17 PM
              heehee silly rabbit, Ive been making art since I was a little one and making quite a decent living at it. thtas why Im so sensitive to the burning other peoples art thing. Im all for raging chaos but not to the expense of others hard work. do I think b man is getting a bit predictable, yea maybe it is, but its not worth ruining others work. cant you imagine working on something all year just to have someone destroy it and you werent even around to watch it or to experience it?

              I do admire the tough guy dare though. impressive :)
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Wed, August 29, 2007 - 4:35 PM
        Jamie wrote:

        "its pretty annoying that people want to be " chaotic" at the expense of others hard work"

        Uh... you want BM without the chaos? D

        "bunch of lazy ass critics with nothing to bring for others, just want to boo hoo about this and that. "

        Not Lazy. Making an art space for the people all day long, every day.

        Not boo hooing - laughing my ass off.

        "leave burning man to the artists and the peolpe who want to bring a postive vibe to the gathering."

        Artists??? ARTISTS??? Spare me. Disco hippies in fake fur. Most of the artists I know stopped going to BM years ago. Pepe Ozan? Brian Goggin? Al Honig still goes, but he doesn't bring his art anymore.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 5:59 PM
          Huh? BTW Al did the gauge in front of the man last year. The rule is:
          Don't bring anything to BM you expect to take back. It's all about taking chances and letting go. I did a piece that was in the man last year and if there was a fire it would have been destroyed. That's life in the big city.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:18 PM
          Chaos and creativity,
          burning = letting go of what you're hanging onto.

          What is real?

          I don't get what's soooo sad about letting go sooner.
          And, by the way, BM is a totally different experience for each person, every year.
          All the comments about people being 'robbed' or 'cheated' of their BM experience is rather backwards.

          The people who create BM are renegades... artists, tinkerers, people who spend all year scraping money together so they can run free bars to get loads of strangers inebriated, the people who not only think outside the box, but bring along a flamethrower to torch the box entirely.

          The man is there to remind us to burn what we cling to....

          renewal, birth, letting go.

          Let it go.
          And have fun.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:39 PM
          yea i hear ya i do miss the chaos factor and surviving it, I havent felt that way for a long time and I do miss it. as an artist I do come to b man to see art at to be able to mingle with other like minded folk who have similar interests that teach me new perspectives. they are still out there and thats why I keep going, but if you keep destroying their art without their permission then it defeats all the hard work and the intent of the art in the first place. yea most of the art burns but it should be at the hands of the creator , why do we have to start disrespecting others hard work to be "radical" radical to me isnt a spontaneous person with a lighter but someones who is willing to work all year to flesh out their personal idea to give to viewers as a gift and when this is lost you will just have frat boys trying to burn each others shit, trying to top one another.
          • Re: Sad news from thye playa

            Wed, August 29, 2007 - 7:47 PM
            <radical to me isnt a spontaneous person with a lighter>

            There is some interesting reading in Dario Gamboni's The Destruction of Art: Iconoclasm and Vandalism since the French Revolution. See especially the section entitled "Modern Art and Iconoclasm" which discusses "fire" as the "essential artist of our time."
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:53 PM
      Fuck no, it aint vandleism to burn the simble of the captlists who fucking rob the people who try and bring peace and vibes to the people.

      Addis is a HERO, a simble to the people to rize and fight captlists and the banks. BURN The banks, BURN SUVs, Burn the rich bitchs homes, burn anything with captlist stink on them and free land to evreybody cause nobody should own anything!


      POWER TO ADDIS!!!
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Wed, August 29, 2007 - 6:30 PM
    I really wish the Daily Show wasn't on break, I wonder if they would have mentioned it hehe.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 8:08 PM
      I'll celebrate to chaos and creativity! I wish all of you who are going to BM this year to have an explosion of creativity and chaos and bring it all together in One yin yang mix mash of who you are.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 8:34 PM
      I leave for burning man tomorrow AM, new job, sell out, weekender, whatever, but when I read the man had been burned early all I could was laugh. I guess some people go to burning man looking for psuedo-anarchy, art, freedom, community, (drink), and whatever happens in the moment, and some go with a clock, and a gps looking for street signs, with comfort in the knowledge the man will always burn on Saturday night. If thats the kind of structured security your looking for why not go ride roller coasters at Magic Mountain, or better yet stay home with your TV guide so as to better plan your weekend. PS. I already recognize I'm just another asshole projecting my psyche onto what the even is all about, but I guess whats what the tribe is for.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:24 PM
      Really doubt it. They only mentioned it once and only because it happened at the same time as GOP national convention. Seriously the rest of America does not care what you or anybody else does on the playa.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Wed, August 29, 2007 - 9:43 PM
    Fuck the assholes who bitch about the torching of the man. Addis is the hero of the world, the world cheers him and his brave action to shove shit in the faces of the captilists who just are money greedy captilists who ruin the fun. Addis is a artist, a peoples poet, a visinary of the peoples. Fuck captilists who want to jail the Hero of the people, fuck the cops who busted him, and the assholes who tossed him to the cops.
    I dont care if it took a thosand yeres to built that asshole man. i wish Addis burned more to the ground and clense theground of those idits who went there. Money is evil and charging to go to BM is against the people. People who go there are just messed up and feed the captlist machine.

    POWER TO ADDIS, POWER TO THE HERO, POWER TO THE DUDES TO SAVED HIM FROM PIG PRISEN
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 6:19 AM
      I love to lick the grit of the capitalist machine.........

      Wait.

      Forget that. Let me try this....I love to force my slave-workers to lick the grit of the capitalist machine! MUCH better! And Xamphere? When we Capitalist Pigs find you, we're going to pry you away from your latte in the coffee shop (where you spend $7 a day so you can claim you "don't own" a computer) and stick a pan flute up your dingus so you can blow your own horn for the rest of your life. And then we're going to go oppress little children and take the vote away from women.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Thu, August 30, 2007 - 12:34 PM
    If the reason he did it is to make a political statment about BMORG, I'll be really dissapointed. That would be really lame. But if he did it to make some like deeper statment about letting go or something, that would be awesome.
    • Jihad Letter

      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:14 PM
      "We could give a fuck less what you all think of us for doing this. Most of you are newbies who have been drawn in by the semi-religious nature of the event, or maybe just the easy drugs and easier sex. You have nothing to offer the event other than your fucking money and obedience. You spend the rest of your lives in mortal fear of everything that insurance companies tell you to fear, and pretend that you’re free and clear because you spend four days at a desert bacchanal where spinelessness is not only encouraged but genetically replicated for implementation in successive generations. In short, you are the swine of which Thompson spoke. Get over yourselves.

      Some of us live quite well without fear. Doing so requires the ultimate in what Burning Man used to represent: personal responsibility and individual liberty. That’s all been lost in the last decade of Burning Man’s history. Consider this operation a history lesson that was desperately needed. " - Paul D. Addis
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:15 PM
      His letter: yay for pre-planning! I'm more excited about that than I am the idea that he did it on the spur of the moment...

      Hi, folks. This is the *alleged* arsonist/douchebag/attention whore himself, writing you from Fernley, NV, where I have been chilling out for a couple of days.

      Having read your various comments, a few things should be addressed. First, this operation was extensively planned well in advance, and the number one thing to Black Rock Intelligence was that NO ONE be hurt. If you people actually knew us, you’d know that we have an extensive background in doing things exactly like this. In fact, we were on the ground for some thirty minutes before ascent, scoping the scene and clearing people in order to minimize any possiblity of injury to others. We were aided by several people who were recruited on the playa the night of this burn (BRI has no idea who they are, so don’t bother asking).

      Second, the operation was planned in conjunction with the lunar eclipse because Black Rock Intelligence knew that another event at the trash fence would draw the bulk of lunatics to it, rather than to the Man. In fact, one of our peripheral operatives aided in getting as many people to the fence event as possible to help BRI achieve its goal of zero injuries.

      Third, word went out across the playa days in advance that Black Rock Intelligence was pulling this op. This word continued to go out right up to the moment that our chief operator began the arduous climb up the guide wire. As you can all see from the results, BRI performed flawlessly in this regard.

      We could give a fuck less what you all think of us for doing this. Most of you are newbies who have been drawn in by the semi-religious nature of the event, or maybe just the easy drugs and easier sex. You have nothing to offer the event other than your fucking money and obedience. You spend the rest of your lives in mortal fear of everything that insurance companies tell you to fear, and pretend that you’re free and clear because you spend four days at a desert bacchanal where spinelessness is not only encouraged but genetically replicated for implementation in successive generations. In short, you are the swine of which Thompson spoke. Get over yourselves.

      Some of us live quite well without fear. Doing so requires the ultimate in what Burning Man used to represent: personal responsibility and individual liberty. That’s all been lost in the last decade of Burning Man’s history. Consider this operation a history lesson that was desperately needed.

      One final note: Black Rock Intelligence has been permanently disbanded. All other operatives have made the ultimate sacrifice by swallowing their L-pills to avoid being captured alive. I am the sole surviving member of BRI and ask that you respect my mourning period for those who gave their lives so that this operation was a complete success.

      Paul D. Addis
      Fernley, NV
      • DOUBLE YAY FOR LARRY'S REACTION:

        Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:17 PM
        Larry Harvey, Burning Man's co-founder and director, was on a platform in his camp watching the eclipse when he noticed his Man on fire. Once realizing that the fire was under control and no one was apt to be hurt, he says, his immediate reaction was laughter.

        The early burn, he said, will help show that the Man itself is "nothing but a wooden doll," and that the event is really about the joint effort of attendees to create it. It will turn this year's Burning Man into a "narrative of community and redemption" as the attendees get to see or assist in the public rebuilding of the statue, he said.
        • Re: DOUBLE YAY FOR LARRY'S REACTION:

          Thu, August 30, 2007 - 2:36 PM
          wowzers! how interesting!
          • Re: DOUBLE YAY FOR LARRY'S REACTION:

            Fri, August 31, 2007 - 1:04 PM
            "Larry Harvey, Burning Man's co-founder and director, was on a platform in his camp watching the eclipse when he noticed his Man on fire. Once realizing that the fire was under control and no one was apt to be hurt, he says, his immediate reaction was laughter. "


            same here...i thought it was pretty hilarious...stop being so serious about shit.....oh well...the pile of wood in man form burned...gee lets all pack up and go home....do any of you really think this is gonna put a damper on anyones fun???? Probly not...and putting the dude in jail for arson is just plain recockulous...he burned something down that was gonna be burned down anyway...thats like me putting a pile of wood in a fire pit and having someone arrested for arson because they threw the match before me....we were supposed to play center camp the night of the burn at 2 am but some stuff came up in town and we couldnt go...at least we didnt miss the gig
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Sat, September 1, 2007 - 1:30 PM
    What is so sad about having two burns for the price of one?

    What a deal!
    • Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

      Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:04 PM
      We worked for ten's of thousands of hours on our projects and one egocentric man named Paul Addis destroyed our contribution for his own self serving message of anger and discontent.

      Shame on him and his followers.
      • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

        Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:13 PM
        Who is the "we" that you are referring to and how did the iconoclast (Paul Addis has not plead guilty or been found guilty of anything) destroy your contribution. I know there are not tens of thousands of hours in building the Man. What was your specific contribution and how do you feel your specific contribution was specifically destroyed by this action? I'm not saying your contribution wasn't destroyed. I just want to know what it was and how it was destroyed.
      • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

        Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:18 PM
        oh lets call wine one one so the wambulance con come......THE DUDE SET SOMETHING ON FIRE THAT WAS GONNA BE SET ON FIRE ANYWAY....UNDER A LUNAR ECLIPSE....so what....and i seriously doubt that fuckin thing takes anywhere near a thousand hrs to build
        • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

          Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:28 PM
          The disappointment of hundreds of contributors to the Green Man Pavilion, ruined projects, loss of ability to share our displays . . .

          Consider if your art or creation was the collateral damage of his selfish deed.

          www.burningman.com/environm...tion.html

          Shame on him and his followers.
          • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

            Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:42 PM
            SOLAR DEATH RAY 3000,

            What project/contribution did you do in the Pavilion?

            How was it ruined?

            What collateral damage did it receive?

            What ability to share your display did you lose?

            Thanks.
            • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

              Sat, September 1, 2007 - 2:53 PM
              It should be enough that people understand that this was not a victimless crime. Paul Addis's legal problems will start with criminal prosecution and continue into civil damages . . . Hope you like traveling to Nevada Mr. Addis.

              www.washoelegalservices.org/smclaims.htm
              • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                Sat, September 1, 2007 - 3:23 PM
                SOLAR DEATH RAY 3000,

                Are you filing civil damages against Paul Addis? Do you know of anyone who plans to? Can you tell us specifically who is claiming to be a victim?
                • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                  Sat, September 1, 2007 - 3:31 PM
                  I'll just tell you it will be radically Inclusive, punitive and without concern of yours or any one else's anarchistic Burning Man beliefs.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                    Sat, September 1, 2007 - 3:46 PM
                    SOLAR DEATH RAY 3000,

                    So what you are saying is that you didn't do anything at the Pavilion, you don't know of any civil suits, and you are completely full of shit.
                    • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                      Sat, September 1, 2007 - 4:09 PM
                      You and Mr. Addis will have to wait until his arraignment on the 25th of September, at 9:30 a.m in order to find out how many serve an affidavit on the defendant for civil damages. There is sure to be more than one.
                      • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                        Sat, September 1, 2007 - 4:16 PM
                        im assuming you wont be one of em....cause just like me you are sitting in your house behind a computer....not out in the desert where you could have contributed to anything that was damaged....and anyone who shows up in court to wine about their shit getting fucked up is a lil pussy narc and quite frankly goes against what the festy even stands for.....and last i checked it didnt stand for calling cops and bringing the govt in.
                        You kinda remind me of the guy who would rat out your friend that gave you weed to lessen your sentence
                      • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                        Sat, September 1, 2007 - 4:36 PM
                        SOLAR DEATH RAY 3000,

                        You are certainly welcome to come here and state your opinion. Just don't expect anyone to respect it when you claim that Paul Addis will face civil damages for destroying tens of thousands of hours of your work when you didn't do anything that was affected in any way.
              • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                Sat, September 1, 2007 - 6:23 PM
                strictly speaking from a safety aspect, please do correct me if I am wrong but don’t criticize ...is there not safety provisions in place for when the actual burn takes place? An ICS team etc.
                And when the guy started the fire, that safety team was not present and they had to be called to the scene. I mean the actual burn has the safety people already standing there making sure the fire is taking place safely.
                So in calling in someone to fight a fire, you are putting them in harms way. Those firefighters could have been hurt or worse. killed, so, then would you call it a victimless crime? I speak from experience on this by the way.
                He was guilty of Arson, textbook. End of story.
                If you are planning a bbq at your house, but someone arrives days earlier, goes in your backyard when you are not at home, starts your BBQ and leaves...and it burns down your house. Is it victimless, I mean, you were planning to BBQ anyway, and you may have burnt down your own house anyway...

                cant use that kind of logic on this..
                just from what I have seen on this blog, if you don’t prosecute, you might as well just let someone do it again next year, and the following year etc.
                Who paid for the fuel? The man? YOU, the people attending the festival, and sorry, but, you guys got burned!

                I would have been real angry if one of the Burning Man Firefighters got burnt or killed..wouldnt you have?
                Then you can step up charges to murder. Because death that occurs during arson is murder.
                • Re: Shame and misfortune shall be his true reward.

                  Sat, September 1, 2007 - 6:54 PM
                  I'm not an authority for these points, but here are some quick thoughts:

                  There are safety precautions during the actual burn, but I believe those are mostly self-imposed. If you are going to burn an artwork out there, you have to register it as "going to be burned" with the Artery, they put it on a list, and submit the list to the BLM. The BLM doesn't require you to have the fire department out there when you burn the piece.

                  It is debatable whether this fire needed fighting, although I think it was appropriate that a perimeter be maintained. Paul Addis claimed a perimeter was created in advance.

                  <He was guilty of Arson, textbook. End of story.>

                  Um, no. Not only is it not textbook, but there is much more to the story--namely, due process of law. He is not currently guilty of anything.

                  What if someone starts your BBQ, doesn't leave, and your house doesn't burn down. Is that victimless? I think that is a better analogy.

                  And what if it does happen year after year? You are making a judgment that it would definitely be a bad thing. Maybe it would, or maybe that is just Burning Man.

                  I think anyone, including the iconoclast, would be upset if a firefighter were injured here. The odds are pretty much non-existent though. Firefighters may go rushing into a burning building to save a family, but they aren't going to go climbing a burning wooden doll for no reason.
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Sat, September 1, 2007 - 6:47 PM
    HI,

    I thought I would include this thread from the counter culture jamming tribe from the alleged "arsonist" himself. I have to say, I am surprised by the amount of judgment & general moppishness being put forth here on this BM tribe thread. It is, well, counter to what i would expect from the counter culture community of burning man. Maybe Paul is right, then, after all. Seeing as how the man will burn ANYWAY tonight, people who witnessed the first one are actually getting 2 for the price of 1, and a great story, that will probably go down in history as being one of the most memorable events in years.

    ANYWAY....Read for yourself what Paul Addis has to say:

    Having read your various comments, a few things should be addressed. First, this operation was extensively planned well in advance, and the number one thing to Black Rock Intelligence was that NO ONE be hurt. If you people actually knew us, you’d know that we have an extensive background in doing things exactly like this. In fact, we were on the ground for some thirty minutes before ascent, scoping the scene and clearing people in order to minimize any possiblity of injury to others. We were aided by several people who were recruited on the playa the night of this burn (BRI has no idea who they are, so don’t bother asking).

    Second, the operation was planned in conjunction with the lunar eclipse because Black Rock Intelligence knew that another event at the trash fence would draw the bulk of lunatics to it, rather than to the Man. In fact, one of our peripheral operatives aided in getting as many people to the fence event as possible to help BRI achieve its goal of zero injuries.

    Third, word went out across the playa days in advance that Black Rock Intelligence was pulling this op. This word continued to go out right up to the moment that our chief operator began the arduous climb up the guide wire. As you can all see from the results, BRI performed flawlessly in this regard.

    We could give a fuck less what you all think of us for doing this. Most of you are newbies who have been drawn in by the semi-religious nature of the event, or maybe just the easy drugs and easier sex. You have nothing to offer the event other than your fucking money and obedience. You spend the rest of your lives in mortal fear of everything that insurance companies tell you to fear, and pretend that you’re free and clear because you spend four days at a desert bacchanal where spinelessness is not only encouraged but genetically replicated for implementation in successive generations. In short, you are the swine of which Thompson spoke. Get over yourselves.

    Some of us live quite well without fear. Doing so requires the ultimate in what Burning Man used to represent: personal responsibility and individual liberty. That’s all been lost in the last decade of Burning Man’s history. Consider this operation a history lesson that was desperately needed.

    One final note: Black Rock Intelligence has been permanently disbanded. All other operatives have made the ultimate sacrifice by swallowing their L-pills to avoid being captured alive. I am the sole surviving member of BRI and ask that you respect my mourning period for those who gave their lives so that this operation was a complete success.

    Paul D. Addis
    Fernley, NV
    reply to this post
    • Ann
      Ann
      offline 2

      Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:04 PM
      Paul Addis sounds like a classical sociopath. Anti-social behavior, Hitler. Enough said.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Thu, September 6, 2007 - 9:49 PM
        Thanks Ann making an overblown statement comparing a practical joke to freaking Hitler has to be the funniest thing I have ever read on Tribe.
        • Re: Sad news from thye playa

          Thu, September 6, 2007 - 11:54 PM
          hahahahahahahaha

          hitler= killed millions of people

          paul addis= burned a wooden doll early

          is so the same....(pause) ..NOT!!!!

          maybe y'all should wait to detox before posting on tribe
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Mon, September 3, 2007 - 11:36 AM
    Fuck your burn. (:

    Addis was only doing what every single one of you should have been doing, making your burn experience everything you wish.
    From that Monday night/ Tuesday morning, I didn't see one upset face on the playa when the man began to burn.
    All the art cars & beautiful people booked it from every direction across the playa towards the man, cheering.
    Yes, cheering.
    Addis knew what he wanted, enough to be prepared & to have a plan. He succeeded & his glowing smile in his mug shot couldn't tell a better story of how he feels about what happened.


    Two burns for the price of one.
    A lunar elcipse.
    A meteor shower.
    & rain.

    Quit your bitching, BM 2007 was a spectacular year.


    And for those of you who can't seem to get over it, get over it. The man is now considered private property & Addis pulled something off that will go down in history. Next year is a new year, either be a grouch & hold a grudge... or brush off your negative feelings & focus on all the positive, wonderful things that took place this year & next year holds in store.
    • Re: Sad news from thye playa

      Mon, September 3, 2007 - 12:45 PM
      The only thing sad about the man burning early is that this moron Addis traded a cheap playa stunt for decades of his life behind bars. The man being torched early, it actually brought people together and in the end is a net positive showing how the community rallies when the chips are down. I hope he keeps that shit eating grin when he is traded for a pack of smokes or a blanket. Think people, is a stupid stunt that doesn't do anything but rally the faithful really worth your personal freedom? And do not forget that BM is on FEDERAL land, you commit a crime there it is uncle sam who will be coming to get you not BRC LLC. Sad, Sad indeed (but not for the rest of us).

      THAT Andi
      • the Government does NOT OWN federal land.

        Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:23 PM
        Federal Land IS NOT owned by the government.
        Federal Lands belong to all american citizens.
        The government works for the american people, and one of its jobs is to maintain and oversee our federal lands.

        National Forests, for example, belong to all of us.
        They do NOT belong to the government.

        (~Read to the tune of Guthrie's This Land is Your Land....~~~)
        • Re: the Government does NOT OWN federal land.

          Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:25 PM
          Just a friendly reminder...

          In a day/age when American citizens think THEIR government owns everything.
          In fact, our federalies work for us, not the other way 'round.

          So the playa belongs to all of us.
          :)
          • Re: the Government does NOT OWN federal land.

            Mon, September 3, 2007 - 2:32 PM
            I'm all for the early burn, non the less because it is "our" land doesn't mean laws can be broken. IF (big if here) they (the feds) decide to prosecute they have the power to do so BECAUSE it is on federal land. The Org doesn't have to press charges for Paul to be prosecuted.
      • Re: Sad news from thye playa

        Mon, September 3, 2007 - 2:15 PM
        "traded a cheap playa stunt for decades of his life behind bars"

        i doubt it....possible...or maybe not....but this guy isnt going for decades....id say probly not even a yr...i know the fed govt can press charges....but if any festy people do id say they are going against everything that burning man stands for to begin with and is no better than some lil bitch ass narc from high school
  • Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Mon, September 3, 2007 - 1:28 PM
    I love that this happened. I don't know what Addis' motivation was, but he's got my vote for Lord of Misrule.

    As long as all that wood and clean air was going to be wasted in the name of make-believe, at least it was done in a way that subverts the norm and challenges authority structures.

    I mean, what is this revolution of yours about? Breaking down the barriers to self-expression, or replacing them with barriers of your own design?
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Sad news from thye playa

    Fri, September 7, 2007 - 8:31 AM
    the reason paul is an ass is not because he torched the man but because the green pavilion was closed for the event.
    my friend Meggio Omega worked on her algae project from Feb 07' on and so did about 40 others they brought it to share with us all.

    it broke her heart that all her hard work for YOU was ruined.

    The fucktard deserves 5yrs min and I will write the judge and tell him so.

    what a fucktard.

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