extra action marching band

topic posted Wed, August 25, 2004 - 9:00 PM by  sean
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got our pretty lil ship "la contessa" banned from burning man for "interfering with others personal expirience", and now we join the ranks of the dissaffected. does any one else feel the loss?
posted by:
sean
SF Bay Area
  • Re: extra action marching band

    Wed, August 25, 2004 - 9:11 PM
    La Contessa was beautiful and a sight to behold. Truly a unique contribution to the city.

    But if even half the stories about the way she was piloted are true, then good riddance to her, and may she never return.
  • Re: extra action marching band

    Wed, August 25, 2004 - 9:25 PM

    Yes, it is a terrible shame, La Contessa was everything that a Mutant Vehicle is meant to be. It would be a joy to be able to point to La Contessa and say "Now THAT is a Mutant Vehicle" while explaining to the driver of a golf cart adorned with some glowsticks and astroturf just why his vehicle isn't going to be approved for driving.

    It is also a shame that those responsible for La Contessa, weren't able to take the responsibility to ensure that her operation did not recklessly endanger others.

    If the members of Extra Action have as a whole decided to not attend/participate in this years event, that is also a shame, but entirely their prerogative.

    I for one, wish them well.

    daMongolian
  • Re: extra action marching band

    Wed, August 25, 2004 - 10:26 PM
    Love your music, hate your driving.

    JR
    • Re: extra action marching band

      Wed, August 25, 2004 - 11:08 PM
      No sympathy for the vehicle....other than dubious involvement in that, how did Extra Action become so disaffected? Without having been personally present, the stories are legion and seem to not be in dispute....so who's disaffected by it?

      Why not come out some other time and drive crazy? I saw a perfectly good Bronco driven drunkenly at night do a really wonderful four point flip and destroy itself jubilantly just a month ago.....thankfully the drunk fucks piloting it wrecked prior to hitting our camp but just a little further and they could have had real fun including blue and white strobe lights and some very bleak flourescents!

      Let's go play somewhere!

      Must keep packing now!
  • Re: extra action marching band

    Thu, August 26, 2004 - 5:52 AM
    LaContessa played host to a cast of some of the most elitist, concieted pricks I've ever experienced.
    One helluva vessel, but that was an exclusive clique, not community.
    Good riddance.

    I love it when a curse works out.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: extra action marching band

      Thu, August 26, 2004 - 8:18 AM
      "LaContessa played host to a cast of some of the most elitist, concieted pricks I've ever experienced.
      One helluva vessel, but that was an exclusive clique, not community"

      Not true at all. I had the pleasure of camping directly behind LaContessa and EAMB last year and they were great neighbors and always willing to help out others. They were about as far from the stereotypical Burning Man elitist clique as you can get. Every one of my campmates and last years neighbors that I have talked about this with felt the same way. Agreed they made some mistakes with La Contessa on the playa but they have also already had to answer by having a fabulous piece they created getting banned from the event. I agree with the ban on the vessel but both the vessel and the people involved will be missed on the playa.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: extra action marching band

    Thu, August 26, 2004 - 6:06 AM
    Wow! Seems like you were looking for someone to help you lick your wounds... Too bad prior thought and care were absent, otherwise you might be garnering the support you thought you were entitled to...

    Yes, La Contessa was beautiful and enigmatic, but even in a city built by artists, safety really must come first.
    • Re: extra action marching band

      Thu, August 26, 2004 - 7:11 AM
      Pardon my lack of pre-emptive apologies when calling a spade a spade.

      • Re: extra action marching band

        Thu, August 26, 2004 - 7:41 AM
        The venerable triumvirate (sp?) of Fun, Fashion and Safety ("Safety Third!") is not meant to imply "safety last" but rather to properly place each element of the equation within context. If safety were an ONLY criteria, life would be dull, dull, dull but were Fun and Fashion to rampage unchecked....well, you'd have LaContessa.

        Didn't Schoolhouse Rock do a song about this?
        • Re: extra action marching band

          Thu, August 26, 2004 - 8:25 AM
          Yes, Clint, so true.

          And yet why do I still find myself so often lamenting the lack of true, untempered freedom on the playa? With all the dangers, chaos and fun that comes with it?

          Yes, I know: such things are less than optimally compatible with an event that's grown to 30,000+ people. (And I think you know better than most how truly well I know that.) And yet...

          [sigh]

          Damn the torpedoes! Hail Eris! Survival of the DUMBest!

          'Twas a sad day when the phrase "by attending this event you voluntarily accept the risk of serious injury OR DEATH" was struck from the tickets. What's the fun of radical self-reliance if there are no consequences to your choices? No danger? Do we really want to turn the playa into a Disneyfied ridefilm?

          Was La Contessa an unmitigated threat to life and limb? At times, absolutely. But dammit, wasn't that kind of half the point? Same with many of the DG cars I've ridden on. There's nothing like the feeling of stepping off of a vehicle with half of your brain screaming "OMIGODTHATWASSOOOODANGEROUSSTUPIDWHATTHEFUCKWASITHINKINGIMNEVEREVEREVERGONNADOTHATAGAIN" and the other half thinking "BUT OH JEEZUS was that ever FUN!"

          Your mileage may vary, of course. But me, I think one of the reasons I go to Burning Man is to experience those limit states, and to run the VERY REAL RISK of injury or death. But that's just me.
          • Re: extra action marching band

            Thu, August 26, 2004 - 8:31 AM
            >Damn the torpedoes! Hail Eris! Survival of the DUMBest!

            We could always get the "risk of life and limb" quota covered by hosting a coed naked bicycle jousting tournament.
            • Re: extra action marching band

              Thu, August 26, 2004 - 8:39 AM
              BTW Boychaos -

              WOW but that bike is a fun little thing! Wow! Light and zippy and fun as all gedddout! Took me all of ten minutes to make friends with it. Not much offa the line (even when revved like crazy) but once you get her going, she just keeps on keeping on.

              Whee! Thanks a million!
              • Re: extra action marching band

                Thu, August 26, 2004 - 9:16 AM
                Hey Aaron, I got a little weekend you might be interested in...like old times but without 29,000 extras...just 1500 of your closest friends.....we'll go offline for this one....see you on the playa and tell you the story. I think you probably already know it somehow.
              • Re: extra action marching band

                Thu, August 26, 2004 - 9:18 AM
                not a problem... She's a giggle manufacturing machine. I swear that I am faster on her than I am on the Duc. Lots more fun, lots less fear.

                I'll see if I can dig up the motorcycle jousting pictures from 1999. We should get that going again. I just can't seem to find other people to joust with ;)
                • Re: extra action marching band

                  Thu, August 26, 2004 - 9:35 AM
                  Given the many stories and reports of safety issues, I can understand the ban. It breaks my heart that it won't be here at this, my first burn. Photos of it 'sailing' across the playa were absolutely stunnning.

                  Hopefully the talented folks behind the contessa are able to dream it all up again and at some future burn we'll see something that takes the creative flair even further, while addressing safety concerns.

                  ~trilo~
                  8:30 & Venus/Earth
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: extra action marching band

                    Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:06 AM
                    Trilo wrote:

                    >Hopefully the talented folks behind the contessa are able to dream it all
                    >up again and at some future burn we'll see something that takes the
                    > creative flair even further, while addressing safety concerns.

                    While I can't speak for the Contessa folks, I'm gonna have to guess that that's pretty unlikely, given that

                    a) they sunk tons of their own money into making (and then improving) that damned thing in the first place, and

                    b) BMOrg (via their DPW) has given them a pretty serious smackdown by not allowing them to use it this year.

                    Lastly, given that the "safety concerns" that would need to be addressed are the attitudes of the operators of the vessel, rather than any real construction issues, making a new art vehicle is not likely to alleviate the Org's disinclination to issue them a DMV permit.
                    • Re: extra action marching band

                      Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:20 AM
                      ummm....DMV or DPW?

                      DMV makes much more sense...

                      Aaron is correct, the issue from what I've seen is not so much the safety of the vehicle itself, but the ways in which it was operated.

                      daMongolian

                      p.s. I am personally interested in allowing La Contessa one more chance, next year, but the first they mess up, it's done and over for good. We'll see if the org is willing to give them the chance.
          • Re: extra action marching band

            Thu, August 26, 2004 - 1:57 PM
            It is the increased caution and restriction that has also played a big part in the end of the Pyromid. Certainly I understand that due to BMs increased size, we have increased restrictions. As with anything that is exceedingly cool, it's increased popularity tends to spell out it's own demise of coolness. Perhaps Burning Man has become too successful for it's own good.
            Being threatened with arrest by the BLM if we tried to burn our Pyromid last year due to confusion about paperwork (good lord it's become bureaucratic), then ultimately being able to albiet with a fraction of the intended fireworks (not due to the BLM but some further miscommunication with rangers) for the "Death Battle" with the Eggchair was way too much drama. It sealed the deal with us as far as calling quits. People still talk to me all the time about the stray fireworks into the crowd from the two prior years and us putting the DANGER back into Burning Man. We always endevoured to ensure that our fireworks wouldn't go astray, but then we didn't have a fireworks consultant from Disney on our team. Sometimes they went astray. We're glad no one got seriously hurt, but also glad that people got a thrill. Small camp doing something a little crazy and sharing it with whomever cared to watch. I've been sucked into going back this year due to the efforts of a joint Pyromid/Eggchair team with the Black Rock Biergarten, but I'm expecting a continued blanding down of the event. I'm definitely approaching this year with a jaded view (plus I'm pissed that I couldn't pull of my plan started over a year ago to go to Guca instead of Burning Man this year).

            Maybe the notion of EAMB and La Contessa starting a new festival (or at least some yearly gathering) of their own so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor isn't such a bad idea.
            Is it time for the US to have a Brass Band festival of its own?
            Anyway, I've certainly appreciated EAMBs efforts at BM. The story of the ship running over the torpedo car in revenge for being torpedoed (overheard as I was leaving in 2002) has been retold many a time, your showing up to play after the Pyromid burn in 2002, the Satyrs burn last year (probably my best moment of that year)... all great memories.
            So, this year, I'll raise a glass of absinthe to EAMB and La Contessa and do what I can to keep things at Burning Man a little more edgy. It's a losing proposition I think.

            A joke I recently heard -
            Q- How many Burners does it take to put in a lightbulb.
            A- Ten, One to think it up, two to plan it, six to pull it off and one to complain that it's not as good as last year.
            Best
            Kurt
          • Re: extra action marching band

            Thu, August 26, 2004 - 2:12 PM
            "'Twas a sad day when the phrase "by attending this event you voluntarily accept the risk of serious injury OR DEATH" was struck from the tickets. What's the fun of radical self-reliance if there are no consequences to your choices? No danger? Do we really want to turn the playa into a Disneyfied ridefilm?"

            Look on your ticket... Mine says "You voluntarily assume the risk of serious injury or death by attending this event..." right on it. I didn't think it ever got removed.

            The problem with huge dangerous vehicles is that your choices are a radical self-relier are NOT what would put you in danger here. If you set up a great camp and made all the right decisions, you could still be wacked when a runaway semi-truck covered in sequins blasts through your camp at 65 mph. Your abilities as a radical self-relier never came into play, it would just be a mindless incident.

            And the Disney cliche is pretty overblown. Its the same type of argument as when someone says, "Your viewpoint is similar to one held by Hitler. You aren't a NAZI, are you? I can't believe you NAZIs". There is name for it, bringing up nazism just to blow an argument out of proportion, its a type of 'straw man' but I don't remember the name. Anyway, its the same sort of thing. If you've ever actually been to Disneyland, I think you'd see how insanely different the two are. Completely different worlds still, trust me.

            If you don't think BM is dangerous enough, come find me at Pandora's Matchbox, 3:30 and Mercury, and I'll come to your camp and hold a personal fire breathing demonstration inside your tent. ;)

            Anyway.. All that said, its a shame to lose a big cool vehicle like the contessa. Its probably the right decision to keep it from rampaging, but I raise my glass to the people who built it, its good stuff.

            peace,
            sam
            • Re: extra action marching band

              Thu, August 26, 2004 - 4:10 PM
              I am following this discussion as a Virgin burner with no experience re: La Contessa...I just had to say the phrase

              "runaway semi-truck covered in sequins" just made me laugh hard as hell.

              Anything for a giggle, today, as the Final Countdown begins.....
  • Re: extra action marching band

    Thu, August 26, 2004 - 10:55 AM
    i think that is a Damned Shame. One of my favorite parts of burning man, hands down. Do we or don't we experience Radical self reliance on the playa? Don't we sign for the risk of death?I don't have a death wish, but for fuck's sake, there's such a thing as being 'hard assed' and directing bm to a more boring place. shitty.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: extra action marching band

      Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:18 AM
      Yeah, radical self reliance can only go so far... It's kinda like some of the pro's and con's of banning smoking: I'm all for risking my own life, but the moment I risk someone else's life, I need a smack-down...

      - nelz
      • Re: extra action marching band

        Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:27 AM
        Not if they consent.

        For example, by choosing to patronize a bar where smoking is allowed.

        Or choosing to go into the middle of nowhere amidst a bunch of creative mad scientist anarchist rowdies, possibly ingest heroic quantities of controlled substances, burn shit, and dodge the occasional giant spanish galleon.

        If it's too much risk for you, choose not to go.

        Me, I savor the times that I've nearly killed myself (or been killed) on the playa, during Burning Man or not.
        • Re: extra action marching band

          Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:36 AM
          Said another way:

          I would prefer that some people's caution not curtail the ability of others to enjoy consensual activities of great risk and real danger.

          If BM is too anarchic for you, then I encourage you to start your own event ("Safety Man"? "Illuminated (but not burning) Man"? "Insured Man"?) with more rules and stricter enforcement, rather than contribute to the sad, continued domestication of Burning Man.

          Hmmmm. "More rules and stricter enforcement." I know! We can call it "civilization" or "our everyday fucking lives".

          - Slim Surly
          • Re: extra action marching band

            Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:45 AM
            I'm pretty sad that La Contessa wont be there but I have also heard the bad driving stories. I'd hate for burning man to get more bad press and trouble from the authorities because a poorly driven giant ship ended up mowing someone down. Just imagine the press having a field day with that one.

            I agree with you Slim that there is a need to keep burning man free from too much enforcement, but I think there is a difference between tempting fate doing silly shit like setting oneself on fire, and risking life and limb by just walknig across the playa.
        • Re: extra action marching band

          Thu, August 26, 2004 - 11:48 AM
          >Not if they consent.

          True enough, but. as a person who has read my ticket and read my survival guide, I fully understand that Burning Man is not the same as San Francisco, things are on fire, things SHOOT fire. But at the same time I see that driving in BRC is not allowed, and those vehicles that are allowed to move must do so at a moderate speed, 5mph.

          Because of these things, I think there would be a reasonable expectation that I won't be run over by a rampant vehicle going 20+ mph.

          If driving of any and all vehicles at whatever speed you choose was still allowed, and firearms were still allowed, I probably would choose NOT to attend. Not in a community of 30,000, not with the drunken frat boy factor.

          Right or wrong, those are the rules. Sure, some rules are meant to be broken, but be prepared to face the consequences if you're caught breaking em.


          daMongolian
          • Re: extra action marching band

            Thu, August 26, 2004 - 1:01 PM
            point taken, we broke the speed limit, and a signpost. and now that our ship is banned, none of the heavy hitters in the band want to attend due to the fact that we worked for the better part of two years planning, building, fine tuning, and generally slaving on that boat and now we have to start our own festival if we want to use it. but what's done is done, I feel the loss.
            • Re: extra action marching band

              Thu, August 26, 2004 - 2:16 PM
              does this mean we won't even hear your music this year?
              • Re: extra action marching band

                Thu, August 26, 2004 - 3:17 PM
                If not, keep your eyes out for Portland's March Fourth Marching Band. They're not as big and not as rowdy, but pack plenty punch and sass. Members played with EAMB at Satyr's last year. I believe they're camped in Woonami village and will definitely be playing Saturday night pre-burn and lead a precession to the burn. If we're lucky we'll get them to play the Biergarten. Also, although we'll be playing plenty of Oktoberfest and polka music (the Deathguild will be so happy!), I'll be throwing down a fair amount of gypsy brass band and other brassy tunes when it fits. Not EAMB, but maybe can help you a bit with your jones.
                K
            • Re: extra action marching band

              Thu, August 26, 2004 - 2:46 PM
              probably WAY to late for this. but considering the amazing mutancy of La Contessa, couldn't BM make a special case for it?

              how about an official BM Probationary Driver. ... someone from BM that IS THE ONLY PERSON ALLOWED TO MOVE THE VEHICLE.

              just because ya'll can't drive doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.

              i'll miss it for sure.
            • Re: extra action marching band

              Thu, August 26, 2004 - 3:33 PM
              personally, i really dont understand why you (EAMB) are so mad about this. it was YOUR driver(s) that messed up, it was YOUR driver(s) that continued to take it out when you were told to keep it parked. so therefore its your drivers fault that the wonderful creation cant come back to the playa. you should be blaming them, not BMOrg. and it was much more than speeding and a lamp post that led to the banning.
              quoted from the BM site from the rejection letter you recieved:

              -snip-There were numerous offenses of speeding and driving at night with minimal or no lighting which led to run-ins with the Black Rock Rangers. Eventually the vehicle had to be disabled. Numerous sets of keys and drivers made it impossible to hold a single individual responsible. "Someone else took it out" was a common excuse. It repeatedly violated the principal tenet of Burning Man to "not interfere in another's direct experience". There were many complaints that people on the playa could not see it and were almost run down. Some folks expressed fear of going out on the open playa.-snip-

              i understand that you all would be upset, but i think your anger is pointed in the wrong direction. hopefully, you all and BM can come to an agreement to let La Contessa come back next year. i really really hope to see EAMB on the playa this year, and if not, you will be missed.

              respectfully,
              jarjar
              • Re: extra action marching band

                Thu, August 26, 2004 - 5:16 PM
                I'm not really that concerned, or angry, I just like to start shit evr' now & then. even if it's our own fool fault, our band & the show we haul around with us is FUCKIN' HEAVY, & we like to ride in style. we sweat blood for our pretty piece of contraband, and now alongside the fact that we have rocked the hell out of BRC for the past 8 years, the general sentiment is the bow out. did I mention that we all just got back from a month long tour of europe?
                p.s. I'm going with my jug band "the hobo gobbelins" any hoo, I aint mad at'cha, just teasing
                • Re: extra action marching band

                  Thu, August 26, 2004 - 5:28 PM
                  oh good! so are you all going to be there this year? i really really hope so! ok, NOW i'll tell you my La Contessa story....

                  one night, i was out on the playa, just walking around... it was really dark that night. cloud cover, no moon or stars. i had turned off my headlamp, and was admiring the lights of the city. not really paying attention where i was going.... and suddenly BONK! i walked right into the ship! it was parked, no lights at all, and everyone was being absolutely silent, waiting for someone like me to come along. as soon as i hit the ship, someone yelled out "We got another one!" and what seemed like dozens of people burst out laughing! i loved it... i snickered over that for days, but was to ashamed of my dorkness to ever tell the story. so now you have it. enjoy!

                  jarjar

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