http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#57439f30-9d17-4091-938e-4f7e792ba1b2 I don't think it's so much what Addis was *on* as much as what it was the he was *off of.* Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:46:42 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#57439f30-9d17-4091-938e-4f7e792ba1b2 Badger 2009-07-27T16:46:42Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bfedfaed-4b96-4432-9796-0a6834b54ec1 This film is having it's London premiere on 6 August joining forces with the Nowhere Omnibus for a fundraiser. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:11:01 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bfedfaed-4b96-4432-9796-0a6834b54ec1 Miss Cheeky 2009-07-27T09:11:01Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5afae24b-6c96-4ed4-93e6-08bcc53fd4bc Well, I've never read this before! And what if my art is destroying peoples lame art in order to make it better? I mean that can be argued for days. Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:32:46 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5afae24b-6c96-4ed4-93e6-08bcc53fd4bc P-Raw: Faery Superstar of the UNDERWORLD 2009-07-27T06:32:46Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#695aa2d1-6320-4c57-b57e-782da41cd491 It doesn't say on the ticket that you can't burn other people's art work. Technically I think you can! I ran around painting peoples art projects and altering other things out there- whoop dee doo- it's all gonna burn up at the end of the week who cares! Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:30:14 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#695aa2d1-6320-4c57-b57e-782da41cd491 P-Raw: Faery Superstar of the UNDERWORLD 2009-07-27T06:30:14Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b70155f0-833e-4e14-948a-b5bfb7860b21 Well I don't think Paul would like you either - you seem like one hell of an uppity bitch... that doesn't mean he wouldn't hit on you mind you. But really why does anyone care so much he burned down the man on the eclipse- no one was hurt- he was the scapegoat- Burning Man took it way too seriously that their little party got poo pooed aw poor capitalistic burners... wa waaaaaaaaaaaa what a bunch of babies... Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:20:16 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b70155f0-833e-4e14-948a-b5bfb7860b21 P-Raw: Faery Superstar of the UNDERWORLD 2009-07-27T06:20:16Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0a590400-c817-442f-ab75-8c8519a4b02b Whatever he's already cleared of those charges. He was framed and never did anything to Grace Church Cathedral. I am so glad people believe what the media hypes!!! Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:15:18 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0a590400-c817-442f-ab75-8c8519a4b02b P-Raw: Faery Superstar of the UNDERWORLD 2009-07-27T06:15:18Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#7220b3d4-5bd3-40cd-8c61-180bbc743af2 He wasn't on meth. For sure. Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:13:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#7220b3d4-5bd3-40cd-8c61-180bbc743af2 P-Raw: Faery Superstar of the UNDERWORLD 2009-07-27T06:13:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fa52c3cd-37f5-4c98-bbfc-c0d4241164ff >>>That's how they built the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. <<< Huh? Dangling eyeballs? Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:42:46 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fa52c3cd-37f5-4c98-bbfc-c0d4241164ff Mitch 2009-07-25T02:42:46Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5620fc7f-e4d3-474c-9044-f904d3cebb8d DB, nice laminate LOL But no, can,t say that I have one. Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:26:48 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5620fc7f-e4d3-474c-9044-f904d3cebb8d Sail Man 2009-07-24T19:26:48Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f08377e5-db29-43d5-b23b-7330eeafc0a4 oh that's you gold guy? cool! i've always loved that. "My stereoscopic image display has been in center camp each year for five years now. It has suffered from graffiti and theft." Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:47:05 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f08377e5-db29-43d5-b23b-7330eeafc0a4 automatthew 2009-07-23T11:47:05Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8d321bb4-4950-4489-8b42-997b9859f804 > "But I don't know that differing opinions of the "early burn" signals a "considerable internal rift." I think plenty of conventional companies manage to limp along with similier or even wider "rifts."> sure, differences of opinion and such are normal in any organization. but one of the most influential board members is strictly against it and also supported by another, yet other board members are officially indifferent yet vocally for it, theres an internal memo sent out to senior staff and volunteers to address the differences in opinion yet there was never an external one. there were quite a few discussions between the org and county prosecutions office, and it was mostly the org members testimony given in court. since there are obviously strong differences in by just about everyone replying here... thats beyond 'normal differences in opinion' to me. but no, i wasnt implying the org was about to implode or something. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:46:15 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8d321bb4-4950-4489-8b42-997b9859f804 spectabilis 2009-07-22T19:46:15Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#41262ded-2e29-4265-a296-7e69387f520a > Perhaps PA fell short of both devotion and sacrifice. Really interesting thought, thanks. I think he certainly nailed the sacrifice portion of the exam. if giving up a year plus of one's life is any measure thereof. As for devotion, I suppose an argument could be made that one would only go to such lengths if one actually gave enough of a shit about the iconography to want to affect it in such a sensational way. But I do take your point, while tending to lean towards DB's position that there's nothing new under the sun. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:42:28 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#41262ded-2e29-4265-a296-7e69387f520a embersandsparks 2009-07-22T18:42:28Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#680bfce7-c3eb-4877-93f3-0f349ecc0413 <Access to eyeballs has always been and always will be the key to any economy, new or old.> That's how they built the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:56:26 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#680bfce7-c3eb-4877-93f3-0f349ecc0413 Crypto 2009-07-22T17:56:26Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f3a939c2-ce92-4dd2-933d-b698f678c308 // Your attention is the new economy, suckers. // It's really an old paradigm: audiences could be monetized in old media as well. If a show had high ratings or a publication had a high subscription rate then advertisers would pay for access to that audience. The fact is audiences are getting more and more fractured due to various other methods of delivery of content in today's media. Access to eyeballs has always been and always will be the key to any economy, new or old. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:54:33 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f3a939c2-ce92-4dd2-933d-b698f678c308 ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-07-22T17:54:33Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75fef795-c1e9-4767-8d0e-3d27877e9028 I wonder if MM is aware of the ironies in his quote. "If it bleeds, it leads" is the motto of the press corp. If you really want to imagine tons of press coverage, imagine PA as a suicide bomber. Perhaps PA fell short of both devotion and sacrifice. Your attention is the new economy, suckers. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:13:21 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75fef795-c1e9-4767-8d0e-3d27877e9028 dr.placebo 2009-07-22T17:13:21Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cd3610dc-30b8-46c2-9d06-85ca9a26e1a5 <exposes a considerable internal rift in mgt> Of course my direct experience of management is limited. Limited to the point of non-existance, in fact. But I don't know that differing opinions of the "early burn" signals a "considerable internal rift." I think plenty of conventional companies manage to limp along with similier or even wider "rifts." IMHO Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:03:13 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cd3610dc-30b8-46c2-9d06-85ca9a26e1a5 Crypto 2009-07-22T16:03:13Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#941a6425-0c72-41bb-9305-f6b25f33d842 and we didn't sleep for two days and nights producing that extra paper! Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:35:51 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#941a6425-0c72-41bb-9305-f6b25f33d842 Deb 2009-07-22T07:35:51Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5eac444b-a5a3-4659-af57-507e7d48de0d Michael Mikel aka Danger Ranger quote: "Devotion to sacrifice is an ardent obsession. Addis has helped to fulfill an archetypical role that will go down in the history of Burning Man - life, death and resurrection. His individual act has done more to promote Burning Man 2007 than any other - media coverage jumped from the normal 20 hits per day to 190. Your attention is the new economy." Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:21:53 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5eac444b-a5a3-4659-af57-507e7d48de0d ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-07-22T07:21:53Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f6b430cc-47a4-40a4-a0b3-c62eaa95199d @Sail Man I specifically sited M2 because of the laminate that was rumored to be made by him subsequent to the early burn. I've got mine. You? http://www.flickr.com/photos/10111/1282535969/ Oh, and BTW...I'm a huge supporter of "Dust & Illusions". I totally agree with you there. I've interviewed the filmmaker Olivier Bonin and featured it on a video in my blog. http://BURNcast.tv Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:20:34 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f6b430cc-47a4-40a4-a0b3-c62eaa95199d ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-07-22T07:20:34Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5f0057c2-a00d-48d6-97ad-1b2581842733 <That would be my guess, too. That hat seems to take himself awful serious.> his pet project, and another of his annoying habits of he and certain grant recipients doing whatever despite rules and ideals held against others. also interesting that hes one of two llc board members who felt that way about the burn, and exposes a considerable internal rift in mgt. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:44:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5f0057c2-a00d-48d6-97ad-1b2581842733 spectabilis 2009-07-22T06:44:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#aef67f2a-26ef-4f1c-a3be-4cbc4bed4233 Paul Addis should run for governor. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:57:22 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#aef67f2a-26ef-4f1c-a3be-4cbc4bed4233 cowboyangel 2009-07-22T03:57:22Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#47a77eda-5d75-4112-8a77-68a0d6be7f2d That would be my guess, too. That hat seems to take himself awful serious. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:20:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#47a77eda-5d75-4112-8a77-68a0d6be7f2d Crypto 2009-07-22T03:20:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8c04c2fa-e29e-4dfb-aa65-9dbf87368abe I could, but I think I'll refrain. Let's just say that I always had a pretty good feeling about her myself, confirmed nicely by her statements on film. Watch the movie. I'll add that I'm under the impression that the hat was NOT amused. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:21:37 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8c04c2fa-e29e-4dfb-aa65-9dbf87368abe embersandsparks 2009-07-22T02:21:37Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#972c19a6-1f46-459b-ba93-9b7136ec20f3 > Oh, do please either think about what you're saying or shut up. Apparently, far more thought went into writing it than reading it. And that's not saying much. > If I decide my idea for somebody else's work will be more artistic and meaningful than the creator's intended purpose, > does that give me the right to do whatever I want with it?... Not at all. But you're certainly welcome to continue to completely miss the point. As you like. Oh, and hey, as long as you're trying to put things in my mouth that I didn't ask for... are you busy later? Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:15:20 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#972c19a6-1f46-459b-ba93-9b7136ec20f3 embersandsparks 2009-07-22T02:15:20Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#36822b63-d96a-4252-b9ca-619f0d02cb95 We could have a whole other thread on the general disrespect and destruction of art. My stereoscopic image display has been in center camp each year for five years now. It has suffered from graffiti and theft. Last year I decorated my display with shredded money and topped the columns with fake (glass) diamonds. http://3dculture.com/bm3d/bm08/BM08015.jpg The diamonds were gone by the second day. That theft occurred in the center camp cafe, where you might think the presence of others would deter theft. Unfortunately not. Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:58:32 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#36822b63-d96a-4252-b9ca-619f0d02cb95 Gold Guy 2009-07-21T19:58:32Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f8b0cd7b-0b94-4a70-89ad-3749df2a7155 >>// Surprisingly many of the core group of founders of BM secretly thought that the PA Burn rocked, because it was spontaneous, and lest "staged" then the Saturday burn.// ITYM Danger Ranger. At least, that's the only core member that seemed to com out in favor of the early burn. I also heard that BMorg enjoyed the media exposure that this newsworthy event brought to the festival.<< In addition to Michael Mikel, others interviewed in the film who thought the early burn rocked included Marian Goodell, I also believe John Law opined in favor or it and there was another long-term female staffer (can't remember her name as the beer was flowing freely that night LOL)(Lady Bee????) who also spoke in favor of the early burn. I was rather surprised to here the comments in favor of Paul's decision to burn the Man early. The film was very well done, well worth your time to check it out if you can. Our regional contact, who's been for 14 years, mentioned that of all the documentaries she's seen regarding the burn, this was one of the better one's. Since seeing the original post on eplaya regarding a showing in SF, and inquiring about a showing in Detroit, where we had 4 showings, I've learned that its been to a small handful of cities mostly tween here and the west coast. http://laughingsquid.com/dust-illusions-a-history-of-burning-man/ If you feel that youve got a good amount of peeps interested in showing the film, get ahold of Olivier. The film is in beta sp and digibeta format if your interested in showing it. Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:29:35 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f8b0cd7b-0b94-4a70-89ad-3749df2a7155 Sail Man 2009-07-21T16:29:35Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9df1481e-14ab-4142-9de4-d6d836515a33 I was lucky enough to be on the scene when this happened... Yeah it was reckless, yes, he is crazy, but how many years have peeps been threatening this? Monday is the New Saturday! It was awesome. Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:52:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9df1481e-14ab-4142-9de4-d6d836515a33 Stormfeather 2009-07-20T21:52:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3884cc43-513d-4e3d-b5b0-66383493d3d1 // Surprisingly many of the core group of founders of BM secretly thought that the PA Burn rocked, because it was spontaneous, and lest "staged" then the Saturday burn.// ITYM Danger Ranger. At least, that's the only core member that seemed to com out in favor of the early burn. I also heard that BMorg enjoyed the media exposure that this newsworthy event brought to the festival. Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:28:11 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3884cc43-513d-4e3d-b5b0-66383493d3d1 ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-07-20T15:28:11Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e31244be-b3a0-48ed-8082-ef47da840ef3 <the core group of founders of BM> Can you name names? Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:22:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e31244be-b3a0-48ed-8082-ef47da840ef3 Crypto 2009-07-20T15:22:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#37ac66ee-00a4-4acb-ad82-7d5f5fd3d01e I saw the documentary Dust and Illusions about the history of Burning Man the other night. Besides it being a excellent film, it also touched on the Paul Addis burn. Surprisingly many of the core group of founders of BM secretly thought that the PA Burn rocked, because it was spontaneous, and lest "staged" then the Saturday burn. Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:56:43 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#37ac66ee-00a4-4acb-ad82-7d5f5fd3d01e Sail Man 2009-07-20T14:56:43Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0cbccea0-d730-4831-b3b3-d905cf227dbd // Since "mental illness" seems (to me, at least) to be the elephant in Paul Addis' living room .// I'll second that motion. It seems so apparent to me in the video of the original posting here and also in conversations I had with him subsequent to Burning Man 2007. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:17:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0cbccea0-d730-4831-b3b3-d905cf227dbd ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-07-19T18:17:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4ec96f34-aec4-4356-89f2-018e04f3135b <I hope whatever lesson that was supposed to be learned got learned> 2 things 1--I don't think that any lesson intended to be taught in our criminal justice "system" is actually taught. (It's a pretty poor pedagogy, too.) 2--Since "mental illness" seems (to me, at least) to be the elephant in Paul Addis' living room, I think putting him into that system is likely to backfire, although I hope not at the burn. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:15:13 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4ec96f34-aec4-4356-89f2-018e04f3135b Crypto 2009-07-19T16:15:13Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#af1ababb-36fa-4dbd-956d-fbebe5cfe847 a few of the rangers said some people had showcase things setup below and were insistant on grabbing thier stuff, wouldnt leave when told to clear out as emerg services arrived. but those rangers also said there wasnt much of a danger, even as more ran out when they spotted the fire and through thier makeshift safety perimeter so when you say assist, you mean they couldnt leave under thier own ability? because thats completely opposite from what rangers officially said, and no one was treated for injuries claiming they were passed out or trapped. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:06:54 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#af1ababb-36fa-4dbd-956d-fbebe5cfe847 spectabilis 2009-07-19T16:06:54Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9790a66b-3e6f-43fc-9e59-d524e949a1cd mother#$%@ woke us up. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:24:41 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9790a66b-3e6f-43fc-9e59-d524e949a1cd Mitch 2009-07-19T14:24:41Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#32183a63-6e5b-4dc9-94fa-5af3d060acb5 I was in favor of on-playa mob justice, but I was not there at the time to organize same. I also felt that someone should have run over his tent. Fortunately cooler heads prevailed and legal routes were taken. He did the crime, did his time and I hope whatever lesson that was supposed to be learned got learned. I don't like to speculate on recidivism (all too common) but if nothing else, a fellah should be able to learn some tricks in stir. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:33:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#32183a63-6e5b-4dc9-94fa-5af3d060acb5 durgy 2009-07-19T11:33:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#21c26d2d-b5db-403f-83f1-a11d215101db i view it kind of like i view the stanley milgram experiments, totally unethical, but i'm still glad it was done. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:51:47 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#21c26d2d-b5db-403f-83f1-a11d215101db automatthew 2009-07-19T10:51:47Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5c6a6f89-f233-41f5-808c-677599347c94 Sorry, Spec.....the rumor was actually the truth. I'm an eyewitness. As one of the first responding firefighters to the incident, I saw more people still leaving the area under the fire when our truck arrived, but the Rangers were looking after them. During our inital attack, I had to halt water flow to direct and assist three people out of the immediate area under the burning structure. The considerable time and energy you spent seems to have been mis-spent. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:23:44 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5c6a6f89-f233-41f5-808c-677599347c94 SwirlJames 2009-07-19T08:23:44Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#56392eeb-681a-4a11-8927-889cbd0d9679 then who was it? not attending this year, and didnt last year. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 04:46:32 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#56392eeb-681a-4a11-8927-889cbd0d9679 spectabilis 2009-07-19T04:46:32Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#17eddb5f-6ac9-4f74-9755-c7358c422e9f I thought I would repost this to help remind people of some of the ways damaging other people's art is pretty damn lame. Reprinted from Jack Rabbit Speaks... RESPECT THE ART: IF YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT, DON'T BREAK IT!! Over the last several years, Burning Man has seen a disturbing trend growing in Black Rock City: more and more art installations are getting vandalized or damaged every year, including everything from tagging to outright destruction. Artists work exceptionally hard to create artwork for the playa at great personal expense. Understandably, they are deeply affected when their work is destroyed or damaged & and participants who would have otherwise experienced the piece as it was intended are also affected. While some participants may see vandalism as their personal form of "radical self-expression," ultimately, personal expression needs to be tempered by the realities of co-existing within a community, which requires mutual respect to thrive. Please help us spread the word: if you didn't make it, don't break it! Help stop mindless vandalism to artwork on the playa. Some of the artists tell their stories below, in a letter to our community from Kate Raudenbush, who created the Guardian of Eden last year. We reprint them for you here, in the hopes that their words speak more persuasively than any missive we could craft. We know that most JRS readers are unlikely to be the culprits of vandalism; we hope you will help by taking time to share in watching out for the artwork in our city. Kate writes: "Dear Burning Man family, My fellow artists and I were comparing stories and notes about our creative efforts from the 2007 Burn. As wonderful as this year was, we all noticed a disturbing pattern of behavior that has grown over the years and seemed to come to a climax this year. I am talking about the vandalism, tagging, willful destruction, and deliberate arson of our artwork. It made me think that some of us come to Burning Man and don't really get what it's about. Some people seem to think that the expressive freedom that you are afforded at Burning Man can come at the expense of others. It doesn't work that way. With freedom comes respect: tagging, breaking, burning, pissing on our art is an act of disrespect, not creativity. Some people might think that tagging is some form of radical act of 'stickin' it to the man' but in this case you are sticking it to your own family. You have no idea how hard we work making this art for you, yes, YOU. We don't get paid to do this; we do it because we love it. Months of work, sometimes the better part of a year's worth, is destroyed in a few minutes, and entire teams of artists and builders are devastated. Here are a few examples (there are many more): DamselFly http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=31728 'Three people loaded on to the front of the sculpture while some guy grabbed the end of the tail and repeatedly jerked it up and down until the tail buckled and broke off.' - Bryan Tedrick, Artist Museum of Reused Items http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=30315 'On Monday night the entire exterior of the structure was ruined basically by the ugliest bulls**t tagging you've ever seen in your life. I knew this would happen to some extent, but I was still devastated when I saw it. I hadn't even been able to take hi-res pics of it before it happened. I was down in the dumps for days. Some of the a**holes who f**ked it up even put their playa addresses. Can you believe that?' - Treiops, Artist Guardian of Eden http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=31359 'The glowing mirrored light fixture above was stepped on, then fixed, then not 24 hours later crushed beyond repair, the vandal leaving their underwear and trash and cigarettes in the broken mirrored dome afterwards. The sculpture light was ruined for everyone for the weekend of the burn. Also, some one set up their personal hammock between the lower legs and lounged there all afternoon creating a bend in the metal where it was attached.' - Kate Raudenbush, Artist America Empowering the World ... Again http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=29422 'Early Sunday morning my futuristic Statue of Liberty had become a 10' cinder; my trailer, generator, scaffold and all of my tools were bent, melted and mangled wreckage. The arsonist(s) had dragged the generator to the trailer, removed the gas cap and dumped it upside down on top. A spent, pocket-sized butane canister lay among the wreckage. I welcome any evidence from the community. It has seriously affected my ability to support myself as a carpenter, and to express myself through my artwork.' - Matthew Welter, Artist Koilos http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=29368 'The metal skin of the sculpture was heavily damaged by people trying to climb it. It was clearly not intended to be climbed.' - Michael Christian, Artist Big Rig Jig http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=30214 'Just hours after the piece was opened, the crew smelled spray paint and caught a guy tagging the base of the sculpture. He said he thought it was ok because it was the base! The crew refrained from strangling him, and instead made him clean off the paint and succeeded in educating him as to how devastating tagging is to the artists.' - Mike Ross, Artist Burning Man is not just a party in the desert. It is a community, a family & and a sacred, absurd, erotic, liberating, empowering, humbling, enormous, ecstatic canvas of possibility. That is why we are part of this community. We all need to realize how special that is and celebrate, teach, and live it, not destroy it. As artists we build art not just for us, but as a gift, for you. This is our act of gifting to the community. And we love sharing it with you; this is why it hurts so much when this act of generosity is taken for granted and vandalized. I know that we as a community are better than this. Please spread the word. Taggers: Feel free to tag YOUR OWN ART! Build a wall and have at it. But please respect the art of others. - Kate Raudenbush" Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:19:27 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#17eddb5f-6ac9-4f74-9755-c7358c422e9f 10-E 2009-07-19T02:19:27Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6b7660d1-a4dc-4d21-b478-4fef1f0d1928 Ok, you say you don't agree, but you sympathize. Let's say that is true. With that in mind I ask, "What should Paul have done other than burning the Man?" What is an "appropriate" way to voice your concerns? Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:14:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6b7660d1-a4dc-4d21-b478-4fef1f0d1928 10-E 2009-07-19T02:14:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f3488914-0a67-4e97-8465-ea135fa19cb3 Actually Spec, at least I remember what I say and don't say, or read and don't read. Maybe you should bust out those logs. Maybe we should just post the links for all to read for themselves. Oh the name on Eplaya is Jordan 10-E... 10q-e to my parents and 10-whatever to my girlfriends. First, it wasn't me that had my art (by the way I make art) burned, but I meet one of the people that did that year (Installation: America Empowering The World Again) and yes it seriously bummed that person out. If it was mine of course I would have "an axe to grind". You say that as if I would be wrong to feel that way. Just another example of how you really don't care how some actions affect other people. Hey, it's no worry to you. But again, it wasn't mine, except that it was... in that the installation was a gift to me and everyone else that has the capacity to appreciate it. I have a meaningful connection with it's creator whether I personally know him or not. And yes, he was very disturbed by the callous actions of those that torched it (along with his trailer and generator and tools). But hey, it is no worry. So I guess you are right, I spend my whole life "looking for opportunities to validate the sense of injustice" I received. Thanks for the psychoanalysis. I love how you skirt the idea that you don't support what he did, but in the same sentence you justify what he did. I am not sure how that works. There are endless parts of your past posts that I can quote, but as you might point out, it's like beating a dead horse. So again, since you seemed to conveniently failed to answer my simple questions, which seems to be your MofO. What way are you constructively (pun intended) going to contribute to the burn this year? What art are you bringing? What talent are you going to share? How might you affect the people around you in a positive way? Why do you go to Burning Man if it sucks? Or are you going to just complain? Maybe you and Addis can get together and plan the next wave of destruction. Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:05:14 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f3488914-0a67-4e97-8465-ea135fa19cb3 10-E 2009-07-19T02:05:14Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fd883e31-dbec-4c61-b58b-68dc2b9f7af4 Anyone know what Lazlo Toth is up to these days? Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:43:21 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fd883e31-dbec-4c61-b58b-68dc2b9f7af4 Crypto 2009-07-09T19:43:21Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d3e6cec1-a641-499d-81f0-70a65de3b49c >> > If you want to burn art, burn your own, not someone elses. < I'd argue that he did just that. His burn carried far more artistic integrity than the effigy itself has in years, in my most humble opinion. << Oh, do please either think about what you're saying or shut up. Was the stuff under the pavillion that got destroyed also Paul's to torch at will, because of your opinion of his greater integrity? If I decide my idea for somebody else's work will be more artistic and meaningful than the creator's intended purpose, does that give me the right to do whatever I want with it? Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:58:03 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d3e6cec1-a641-499d-81f0-70a65de3b49c Kelly 2009-07-09T18:58:03Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#83b13cd3-ba77-490c-9ff2-a421682cc43f > ".. I don't agree with him about Addis, but spec is passionate and he's fun..." i never require anyone to agree with me despite being friends, because i usually learn more from thier disagreements. but this isnt much of a worry to me, 10-e is the same person from the eplaya... except 10q-e... or something. and despite the multiple times i repeat that i dont support what addis did, i distinctly remember that will not register as sincere to 10-... whatever. hes the guy that had his art burned down once, arson or something, and has a resentful axe to grind that manifests by actively looking for opportunities to validate the sense of injustice he recieved. but he is not the only one by any means, especially considering the multitude of people who had green theme sponsored showcase opportunities, also the most vocal about recieving twenty years in prison wasnt comparable to being burned alive "and see how funny he thinks that is." sometimes i think i should post up my eplaya moderator journals, other times i want to burn them. Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:44:36 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#83b13cd3-ba77-490c-9ff2-a421682cc43f spectabilis 2009-07-09T05:44:36Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d874cb0d-8af6-458c-987c-766f03b0814e > If you want to burn art, burn your own, not someone elses. I'd argue that he did just that. His burn carried far more artistic integrity than the effigy itself has in years, in my most humble opinion. And why would you get mad at Spec for paying such nice compliments to the DPW? I mean, I haven't heard anyone speak so lovingly about them in years... Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:45:29 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d874cb0d-8af6-458c-987c-766f03b0814e embersandsparks 2009-07-09T02:45:29Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2ff08d4a-a86e-4902-9242-45d9b7a7def2 Aww, Geez, Mom, he started it! He called DPW a bunch of white trash carny dropouts. That kind of attitude just makes my huggies all wet, and stinky. At recess, I'm gonna make him eat some worms! Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:15:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2ff08d4a-a86e-4902-9242-45d9b7a7def2 Zaius 2009-07-05T09:15:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#26a6c5f9-3b53-47a4-9eda-032d25a4cf1e What have you DONE to "re-create the same tired repetitions"???? What?! Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:48:26 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#26a6c5f9-3b53-47a4-9eda-032d25a4cf1e 10-E 2009-07-04T16:48:26Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3d5b484a-daef-430d-b494-8bcbf88e59c3 Exit Burning WhatChaMaCallit. Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:55:32 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3d5b484a-daef-430d-b494-8bcbf88e59c3 PUMA 2009-07-04T00:55:32Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c2a8f212-68ee-4102-a360-02e554d91b16 Mnay a mighty civilization Lived (and died) by these words. Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:54:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c2a8f212-68ee-4102-a360-02e554d91b16 PUMA 2009-07-04T00:54:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4e5cd802-6223-4c5c-abe6-f1d0ccf7df31 Labor on it, Love it, then Light it and Let it Burn! Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:47:49 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4e5cd802-6223-4c5c-abe6-f1d0ccf7df31 PUMA 2009-07-04T00:47:49Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fdcbd7bf-310c-4550-9cc3-aea9df9bbf73 ...all things in time shall be, by time, undone. Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:43:38 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fdcbd7bf-310c-4550-9cc3-aea9df9bbf73 PUMA 2009-07-04T00:43:38Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#77a9a1ab-9a3f-4f2c-9376-399385dfa3e4 I happen to like Spectabilus. I consider him a friend. I don't agree with him about Addis, but spec is passionate and he's fun. I mean, you can go ahead and argue with him all you like, but *makes inconclusive "shrugging" gesture." Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:23:05 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#77a9a1ab-9a3f-4f2c-9376-399385dfa3e4 Crypto 2009-07-03T23:23:05Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0444bd1c-34b3-4701-9d19-684b9aab8ea3 Right on, 10-E I am certanly picking up what your laying down here, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, there is one small part where we differ. I need to believe that even someone like Speck does something constructive, out on the playa. If he responds, I say if, he will tell us that he does something very important, with the music industry. It is very important, so important that you wouldn't understand how important his important work really is. In truth, I am sure that he occupies his days, gobbling up alphabet drugs, and picking up empty nitrous cans at Opulent Temple. That would explain his glee at burning other people's work. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:33:55 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0444bd1c-34b3-4701-9d19-684b9aab8ea3 Zaius 2009-07-03T19:33:55Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6fc438df-42a3-4e26-a27d-c8217cd1eeaa Baaaaahhhh... Tell us what to do Spectibilis. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:34:03 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6fc438df-42a3-4e26-a27d-c8217cd1eeaa 10-E 2009-07-03T16:34:03Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#50acedd3-9643-46b9-a0fd-4d3f4a713b72 I meant you are not FOOLING anyone. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:29:33 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#50acedd3-9643-46b9-a0fd-4d3f4a713b72 10-E 2009-07-03T16:29:33Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a892222e-ae2d-41c0-af09-35bc876313f9 Oh come on is right. So what are you saying here? You don't agree with his actions because they were inconsiderate and disrespectful - or - that it was OK because you "don't have to appreciate it - in fact we can and will continue to mock its use". In truth I really don't believe you do respect the art and efforts of others. Instead I think you are tenaciously holding onto worldview that it is bad to harm other people's art, efforts, and dare I say property EXCEPT when it doesn't jive with the way YOU think it should be. I have no problem when you try to point out that this is Burning Man and stuff gets burned or that we all should read the back of our ticket and take responsibility for our own safety, etc. But you have a way of jumping from reasonable, self-evident points that anyone with a little common sense can figure out to trying to justify actions of a person that crossed a line without any regard to the welfare, efforts, safety, intentions, feelings (or a hundred other things) of others. Just because YOU don't like the way something is done. If we don't agree with your ideas (or people such Paul) then it becomes OK to force us to see the "truth" by taking matters into your own hands. I know you are not the one that put the flame to the Man, but your form of reasoning ties you to it in a way as if you actually did. I really do not believe you care at all about the efforts of others, so please spare us all the hollow words that you really do. Now that is laughable. You are not following anyone. One only needs to point out the derision and words you heap upon DPW and others to make my point. Since I don't believe you have ever really created any real art of your own, hence one of the reasons you have no understanding about the efforts and feelings and creativity of those that do, I ask you again, "what are you creating to bring to the desert this year?" Tell us about your art. What can we expect to see from you this year? Where on the playa will we be able to find it? * crickets* Until I actually see you CREATE something REAL and not just get on here and try to learn us all then I will show you as little RESPECT as you show others. Put up or shut up. Or can we only expect more tearing down, faulty justifications, discord, ill-willed malicious destruction from you and your camp? I am not even sure why you go to Burning Man as crappy as it is. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:26:48 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a892222e-ae2d-41c0-af09-35bc876313f9 10-E 2009-07-03T16:26:48Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ce4f0dfe-80a2-4942-832e-5ec534acfa16 You are one to be talking about "stretches of logic". Ah, I've missed your wonderful philosophic ramblings Spectabilis. I just wanted to thank you for bringing back some real logic into this. Thanks for all you do for the community. Oh btw, I am curious what art project you are bringing to the desert this year? I am sure you have been working hard. Let's hear what you have up your sleeve. Please. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:58:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ce4f0dfe-80a2-4942-832e-5ec534acfa16 10-E 2009-07-03T15:58:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e78d20fb-d9d4-4afe-b9cd-787c66d85005 +1 "once in how many years, the man burned early. It's fucking historic. And all the analysis of the danger, his personality, perceived thoughtlessness.... boring. Who cares. It was epic. " Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:13:02 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e78d20fb-d9d4-4afe-b9cd-787c66d85005 automatthew 2009-07-01T18:13:02Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8e391237-0cdb-4f05-9d1a-080af7e4f8d5 I'm not that worried, either. To burn him again would be derivative (especially so soon after the last attempt), and therefore cheapen the overall experience. ...just sayin'... Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:43:57 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8e391237-0cdb-4f05-9d1a-080af7e4f8d5 Quiet Girl 2009-06-30T23:43:57Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#171a08ba-e60f-4398-a4d8-3a7d26183a30 > ".. Not the self agrandizing loser who burns it down, for no explained reason. If Paul had burned his own work, I would have no problem. But he didn't. He found it much easier to inflict himself upon people who really didn't appreciate it..." oh come on. he gave a reason, and if you are unaware its yet another example of not knowing much of what you are talking about. but there is a big difference between not agreeing with a reason and not understanding it, similar to the big difference between respect and appreciation. i dont agree with what he did, i thought it disrespectful to peoples effort and a wrong course of action but i also completely understand WHY he did it, and share his sentiment with a complete lack of appreciation. i hate it, and for those many other veterans who dont like it based on what its become a symbol of... well, we dont have to appreciate it - in fact we can and will continue to mock its use and purpose as it has grown into something many think is really quite laughable. but does that mean i lack respect that its a someone elses creation? absolutely not, hence not agreeing with his course of action. no idea, but if you are implying anyone has to appreciate the effort you put into it, they dont. Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:11:20 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#171a08ba-e60f-4398-a4d8-3a7d26183a30 spectabilis 2009-06-28T05:11:20Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b286ae4b-449c-455a-96aa-0fcdfa362a30 No, *sigh* I am no longer young. Haven't been, for a long time. I would go as far as to say, that I am probably your parents age. However, I still have plenty of compassion. I would choose to offer it to the people who worked long hours on a fine art project. Not the self agrandizing loser who burns it down, for no explained reason. If Paul had burned his own work, I would have no problem.But he didn't. He found it much easier to inflict himself upon people who really didn't appreciate it. I think we have a basic diffrence of opinion on what an artist is. To "fuck things up righteously" is the job description of a Vandal, or thug. Fo me, I find a much more workable definition of artist would be someone who shows us the world, in a way that we have never seen before. Paul's pointless arson simply does not qualify. If you want to burn art, burn your own, not someone elses. That is a lot closer to the burner credo, then anything I've heard you say. So, Paul is giong to be supported by members of the S.F. "community." That really sounds like you are letting yourself off the hook. Of course your house is closed to Paul. I can't imagine anyone who would actually welcome him in. If you really wanted to help him, find some of your friends, and rent a house. I expect that protecting Paul from himself is a full time job. I also expect that you will never do that. It is far easier to talk about compassion, then to actually practice it. When he gets out, he is going to need help, and a keeper. What is your excuse not to help him stay on the outside. No, I am not asking the "community" I am asking you. Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:01:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b286ae4b-449c-455a-96aa-0fcdfa362a30 Zaius 2009-06-28T01:01:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2c674ad2-4078-4b17-961c-a91a468ef2b4 something tells me your very young, zaius. Cause with age, comes maturity, comes understanding, comes logical comparison. Would I want him living in my house? no, but then I live alone and I dont want anyone living in my house. But he has been supported in our community by those who know him. And that's really the question your asking. Would you want Paul in your community? He's been a part of the S.F. community for a long time and there are people who support him. People who know him. People who dig him. People bitch and complain that burning man has become predictable. And yet the unpredictable happens and now your all running in the other direction. I think were all so trained by society's mantra to fit in that when we posture that were alternative, the true stripes of an individual come out when an event like the early burn happens. Oh sure, you want the wild, freaky, crazy artist to perform. To create for you to see. To give you motivation to create yourself. But you sheep like draw the line in some typically conventional places. Have you forgotten that life is supposed to be fun? That it's your job as a burner or an artist to fuck shit up righteously? cause that's all paul was doing. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:35:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2c674ad2-4078-4b17-961c-a91a468ef2b4 (-) (-) 2009-06-27T22:35:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#aa316750-da81-4943-8797-fd681ec223ec Dear (.)(.) Yes, it is true. I have never spent time with Paul. The only time I've ever actually seen him, he was on the ground, wearing handcuffs,cracked out of his mind, and crying like a little girl. So, I imagine that I've seen him at his best. Some sort of acting talent really isn't an excuse for seriously anti-social behavior. Would you really let your children spend the night at Neverland ranch? Mike Jackson had talent, does that forgive his taste for pederasty? He damaged a lot of people, but, by your standard, that is fine, as long as he can moonwalk for us. By your own description, Paul is manic, terrifying, and has serious mental issues. when I look at the video clip that is refrenced at the top of this thread, I would agree with you. However, by simply ducking my question Namely: would you want to have paul live at your house, you tend to make my point. He may be amusing at a distance, but not even his friends want to live with him. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:23:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#aa316750-da81-4943-8797-fd681ec223ec Zaius 2009-06-27T21:23:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2941bf50-0fb8-4c39-8fb7-988d5d3eb0d9 translation for the primate impaired: neither bragging nor involved - simply pointing out that you dont know much of what you are talking about. so no, you dont understand me correctly. but thanks for validating whats said of the dpw - im sure you can challenge others in your tree into a conflict, there's plenty of you slinging shit about now and you have shown its easy. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:28:38 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2941bf50-0fb8-4c39-8fb7-988d5d3eb0d9 spectabilis 2009-06-27T20:28:38Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b8f37596-354c-448b-b415-0e3c669992ac Crypto, really? a week long camping trip in the desert? What other week long camping trip do you know that offers some of the most insane art? Or that you can hop from place to place and never know what the next turn of your head is going to reveal? Has it really lost it's shine to you? Cause in my world, no matter how routine it gets, it still blows my mind to tiny little bits when the day is done. My sympathies for your loss. cause 7 years in for me and I'm still embracing the hell out of that event and ignoring all the bullshit. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:07:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b8f37596-354c-448b-b415-0e3c669992ac (-) (-) 2009-06-27T20:07:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8dfc53e6-8976-402a-ad0a-459825cb402d Hey Zaius, wtf do you really know about Paul Addis? Seriously? That boy has been a part of the S.F. theater community for as long as I've been involved in it. While his manic behavior has always scared the crap outa me, I've always been sympathetic to his mental plight. He's a terrifying genius. He's got amazing quality's and utterly fucked up quality's. But it's been my belief you dont throw the baby out with the bath water. I've never seen him harm another human being. I've only seen him rant in very intense manners. And act the shit outa whatever performance he undertakes. So you take the rumors of his instability and couple it with his act of burning the man combined with the fact you dont know shit about him personally, and what you get is runaway mind trips on who you think he is. Subtract the element 'you dont know shit about him personally' and you get a totally different picture on 'him burning the man' Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:57:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8dfc53e6-8976-402a-ad0a-459825cb402d (-) (-) 2009-06-27T19:57:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fa1a7efe-7e5e-4c71-9fb2-5ce6bf90754c If I understand you correctly, you are bragging about having enough common sense not to set fire to a maze that you are standing in. Wow. That is right up there with bragging about how you are finally toilet trained. You are, arn't you? I would hate to over estimate your abilities. In the larger picture, why are you bragging about something that you didn't have the courage to actually do? The people in your group probably never planned to really burn the man, or enough of them sobered up in time to stop it. In any case, you failed in your attempt to burn the man. What is that to be proud of? That your a failure? I am willing to be proved wrong, however. Just wander into the DPW Ghetto, and tell them that they are a bunch of"Carnival worker dropouts" Until then, you are just another puppy, with a big mouth.. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:00:27 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fa1a7efe-7e5e-4c71-9fb2-5ce6bf90754c Zaius 2009-06-27T19:00:27Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c69c0e9a-50c1-4256-9ed8-53a5fa6dc25f > " I am sure that you have worthwhile ideas, but they are lost in a sea of pointless blather. Sure, I believe that there has been plots to burn the man early. .. So, it seems that the odds of the man burning early are pretty slim. .." oh im sure you dont understand, as well as many others. afterall, the man crew seems to have devolved into something just a step or two above the white trash cultural phenomenon of dpw, which strikes me as the last option for carnival worker dropouts. yeah, so its definately something to be proud of there. your religious micronaut joke of a totum, complete with force fed ideals of ritualistic burnings that have lived long past thier original purpose, and fallen into a really bad form of pop-culture. but im sure that would be lost as well, the original spirit of the new. we didnt really bring others out there to re-create the same tired repetitions of art and culture, thats what we wanted to escape. but hey, you have your crew to thank for that, and you are more than welcome to it now that its the symbol to bring in new people who fortunately have much lower expectations. but it kinda shows what you know, because the previous year there were 20-30 people collected on the platform ready to light him up. fortunately common sense invervened when it was determined that there was no way for anyone caught in the maze to likely escape. seems even the rangers are a step or two just above you. oh those clever little primates, and thier cute little evolutions... Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:59:43 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c69c0e9a-50c1-4256-9ed8-53a5fa6dc25f spectabilis 2009-06-27T05:59:43Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8ef9e56b-eaf9-45bf-9893-b1bed47d0f5e Right On! I think it is great how you think Paul is a brave revolutionary. You know, he's going to need a place to crash, after he gets out of prision. Why don't you take him in? I'm sure you will just love it, when he starts "living on the edge" in your house. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:31:39 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8ef9e56b-eaf9-45bf-9893-b1bed47d0f5e Zaius 2009-06-27T05:31:39Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f64a63be-4fc5-43b7-b9e2-c8ffbb0acbc8 It's just a week-long camping trip in the desert. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:31:21 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f64a63be-4fc5-43b7-b9e2-c8ffbb0acbc8 Crypto 2009-06-27T05:31:21Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f617fc81-6e87-42e7-8bd4-81f127895ac2 Not. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:31:02 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f617fc81-6e87-42e7-8bd4-81f127895ac2 Crypto 2009-06-27T05:31:02Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a778131c-e812-4b07-81a5-aad415d3b27d <once in how many years, the man burned early. It's fucking historic. > Yeah. Like Washington crossing the Deleware. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:30:53 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a778131c-e812-4b07-81a5-aad415d3b27d Crypto 2009-06-27T05:30:53Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2569343a-ea8d-4cf3-99ff-9b4f98f6a51a oh and mdjgutie and badger....get a room. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:39:04 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2569343a-ea8d-4cf3-99ff-9b4f98f6a51a (-) (-) 2009-06-27T04:39:04Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ceec0445-5e6c-42b9-8547-a8a767348616 see, and I still think it was an awesome move. danger on the playa? people safe under the man? pullease. There is so much freakin danger out there, really how much more dangerous is burning the man early. Shit. I nearly melted when the oil rig exploded. The dudes had to work tirelessly to rebuild? Why the fuck did they rebuild. The damn thing burned already in a wonderfully spontaneous event. And if you are gonna rebuild, Your gonna have a blast doing it. Cause that's what burning man is about. Digging whatever the ride is. Welcome to burning man. The place where some of the coolest most bizarre shit can happen. The last thing I would ever expect is an awesome act as burning the man early resulting in the most sick conventional of outcomes. Prison. Who fucking called the cops? asshole. Embrace the so called nutjob who had the freaking balls to undertake such a bold move. He's a freakin hero. A hero of creativity and living on the edge. once in how many years, the man burned early. It's fucking historic. And all the analysis of the danger, his personality, perceived thoughtlessness.... boring. Who cares. It was epic. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:30:52 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ceec0445-5e6c-42b9-8547-a8a767348616 (-) (-) 2009-06-27T04:30:52Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d9288eb9-5c32-48aa-b473-096e93225323 Spec- You know, you should really lay off the meth, for a while. I am sure that you have worthwhile ideas, but they are lost in a sea of pointless blather. Sure, I believe that there has been plots to burn the man early. That happens every year.One of the favorite pastimes of the man crew is to speculate how it could be done. However, in all the years the man has been out there, only one person has been stupid/mean/deranged enough to actually do it. And even then, he acted alone. So, it seems that the odds of the man burning early are pretty slim. Unless, some brave soul comes forward, someone who really doesn't mind prison food, and is willing to trade $30,000 and a year of his life, for a bit of mean spirited fun, I am just not that worried. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:52:17 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d9288eb9-5c32-48aa-b473-096e93225323 Zaius 2009-06-27T00:52:17Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#df59e23a-4728-4408-9a78-8e5c7c04aa25 Sounds like Spec has been sampling some of Paul's medication... Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:41:52 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#df59e23a-4728-4408-9a78-8e5c7c04aa25 Kelly 2009-06-27T00:41:52Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b3e5e916-6ca2-4cd7-b13e-bf65fc7d8b09 i heard he ate the little children and it was puppies he shot with bb guns. in fact i heard he just flew all the way to iran to light protesters on fire, replaced michael jacksons tea honey with antifreeze, and sold countless sub-prime mortgages to middle class americans from his jail cell. so speaking as one of the zookeepers who cleans up the monkey poo slings of self-entitlement , i wonder how those who built the man or had theme sponsored endorsement showcases under it.. what they would think about there being a movement the previous year to burn the man down early... .. but i guess those are dirty chimpanzee terrorists. Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:03:32 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b3e5e916-6ca2-4cd7-b13e-bf65fc7d8b09 spectabilis 2009-06-27T00:03:32Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c04b69da-22b3-4d2b-8c51-31870b5d8390 The guy really needs treatment. Leaving aside the question of can he be forced to have it, we get right to the reality that there is none available, or almost none. Almost certainly a "danger to self or others," but... Oh crud, I don't know what to say. He threatened children? Well, we are a culture that doesn't like or value kids much. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:41:57 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c04b69da-22b3-4d2b-8c51-31870b5d8390 Crypto 2009-06-26T01:41:57Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0afb48ec-8d7c-4a9f-8994-0544e06bbe29 Speaking as one of the little monkeys that got to spend the week of the festival rebuilding the man,I have no problem with him spending some time in the Big House. A year is probably enough. Hopefully, he has spent his time reoganizing his priorities. I doubt it, but we can hope. I wonder what the conditions of his parole will be. Will he have drug tests? Will he be allowed anywhere near churches, or the festival? How long can Paul go, without threatening children, or sticking b.b. guns in hotel clerks's faces? Hold on to your "Free Paul" bumber stickers. I just don't think his time on the outside will be that long, or happy.. Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:52:25 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0afb48ec-8d7c-4a9f-8994-0544e06bbe29 Zaius 2009-06-26T00:52:25Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#be6c3008-e682-4d6f-9e4b-8c7943f3dba7 yawn.........BORING......... Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:08:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#be6c3008-e682-4d6f-9e4b-8c7943f3dba7 Miss Holly 2009-06-24T21:08:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4821d25e-0974-447a-8377-cbc5ddc87a55 > "... neologisms based on no data and weak logic... "eyes roll heavenward* hey now, dont blame me for wordplay. its fun! Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:41:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#4821d25e-0974-447a-8377-cbc5ddc87a55 spectabilis 2009-06-24T20:41:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6c89f910-bc7b-4551-a3e3-0cab6b6b3645 > "..Spec and Chris, are you being deliberately stupid or what? You know, that's a really annoying habit I see all too often on ye olde internets, when people just act like idiots and ignore what's being said just to avoid admitting that someone else has a point." funny thing is kelly, i understood what chris was referring to and you. the comment you are replying to was the ignorance of thinking there was the nature of an undue burdon of risk not normally associated within an environment like burningman. and in case you missed it, i explicitly stated i wasnt defending addis or his actions, and i agree that he probably mis-represented his case, deliberately. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:39:16 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6c89f910-bc7b-4551-a3e3-0cab6b6b3645 spectabilis 2009-06-24T20:39:16Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9e0ac8a9-38ed-4e1c-952a-5f4e72aeb029 Thank you, John Kelly version 1.0 The old posts clearly state he left a campsite impaired and no one had a clue. He was alone. And he fought the Rangers attempting to protect him...from himself. I wasn't aware that in the Interim some tried to spin the truth. KK ps Serendipity...see my latest Blog 'Fair and Balanced' Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:39:11 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9e0ac8a9-38ed-4e1c-952a-5f4e72aeb029 Kamikaze 2009-06-24T20:39:11Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e68114b5-72de-4610-b95b-147089824e1d Spec and Chris, are you being deliberately stupid or what? You know, that's a really annoying habit I see all too often on ye olde internets, when people just act like idiots and ignore what's being said just to avoid admitting that someone else has a point. I'm going to try this again, so no one can possibly misunderstand. Addis LIED about having taken some kind of precautions so that no one would be put at risk because of his actions, trying to deflect one aspect of the critiicism aimed at his little arson adventure. Whether you think putting people at risk without their knowledge or consent at Burningman is completely irrelevant - the point is a he made up a bullshit story that many people believed, in order to avoid the negative opinion of people who do in fact think that setting fire to a large object above people's heads without their foreknowledge is not a good thing. This is a verbatim quote from a little PM discussion I had with an Addis fan a few months ago, with a fellow who was not there but repeating what he'd heard: <For those that claim Paul endangered people with his prank note that he woke up and cleared people out of the area before starting. As did his temp helpers. Also note that post lighting of the man he cleared people out that were gawking under the man as it was on fire. He actually stopped his escape to physically push people out that were endangering themselves, as the on duty rangers were just holding their dicks doing nada. A sad failure of responsibility by the safety folk. > All complete lies. That is what I'm talking about - Addis's disinformation campaign. But if you want to go ahead and defend that too, go for it. Just be honest about what you're defending. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:27:10 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e68114b5-72de-4610-b95b-147089824e1d Kelly 2009-06-24T20:27:10Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bceccf8d-fc7a-4e64-88b3-291dbec8841d "one thing for certain.. you will surely be-a-hurtin' if you throw it all away" Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:48:20 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bceccf8d-fc7a-4e64-88b3-291dbec8841d Christopher 2009-06-24T19:48:20Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c8029331-bc81-4c15-912d-02321aa216a8 well, i for one am classic. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:35:05 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c8029331-bc81-4c15-912d-02321aa216a8 automatthew 2009-06-24T19:35:05Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#50f77f5b-da6e-4a39-b3c1-9d9273ac7f57 >>> Man all you fuckers are classic << Not good to generalize about communities. The people wishing Addis well in this thread are not likely to have ever said anything like "kill" or "rape" or even yada yada yada :-) If you're still upset about what specific individuals said about Addis more than a year ago then you'll need to re-read those threads and respond directly to what was said, not bash people today for what unspecified "burners' said a year and a half ago. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:32:29 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#50f77f5b-da6e-4a39-b3c1-9d9273ac7f57 Gold Guy 2009-06-24T19:32:29Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6e51edf6-d9f0-4c8d-9fa2-616bff54dbfe sheeple Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:26:10 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6e51edf6-d9f0-4c8d-9fa2-616bff54dbfe spectabilis 2009-06-24T19:26:10Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#7025abf4-22d5-47c9-8562-dff28bbaff65 no its not, but like i said, i consider it to be a subset of cultural. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:24:58 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#7025abf4-22d5-47c9-8562-dff28bbaff65 spectabilis 2009-06-24T19:24:58Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75c57681-0ba7-44ff-a46c-8f8de703a3f7 what if someone is blinded or worse by a delayed late firework/pyrotechnic as always seems to happen after the man falls and people are running round him?!?! what then!! WHAT IF?! What if ... You are lucky youre not blind!!! How many man burns have you been near?! What if you werent so lucky all them times!? thank the lord... luck and the volunteers that the WHAT IF's havnt found you yet spectabilis! Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:17:15 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75c57681-0ba7-44ff-a46c-8f8de703a3f7 Christopher 2009-06-24T19:17:15Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#28c3e462-8d2b-4c21-a60b-c7d6c5776c5c <Burners used to be so unique in their ideas and thoughts.... > Like calling people sheep. That's a brand new thought. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:14:03 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#28c3e462-8d2b-4c21-a60b-c7d6c5776c5c Crypto 2009-06-24T19:14:03Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5a6341e9-9341-4854-aa39-286e8f305d9b neologisms based on no data and weak logic... *eyes roll heavenward* Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:10:18 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5a6341e9-9341-4854-aa39-286e8f305d9b automatthew 2009-06-24T19:10:18Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f2e86eee-63db-421a-af90-2425921a96d4 Man all you fuckers are classic. Burn ADDIS, kill ADDIS, I hope he gets raped in prison, yada yada yada. Now look at you, I hope he gets the attention he needs due to his brain issues. If the majority agrees you can't help but join in. Burners used to be so unique in their ideas and thoughts.... Come on you sheep! Everyone hates him and now everyone takes pity on him. Don't you all have something better to do, like plan on wasting money in the desert? The BRC community is so fucked up and this is a case and point. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:07:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#f2e86eee-63db-421a-af90-2425921a96d4 atom is ever changing 2009-06-24T19:07:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a9a7f5bb-fc4f-4565-8a9c-615d064bc57f He did nothing of the sort. He said, "Let's study it to confirm its existence." Not quite the same thing. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:04:28 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a9a7f5bb-fc4f-4565-8a9c-615d064bc57f Rhino 2009-06-24T19:04:28Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#02cb71e2-360e-42e8-b562-573166f126ad > ".. the fact that no one was injured was a combination of good luck and rangers' actions" right, because as members of the stupid republic of burningman we cant help ourselves and need to be protected. because nothing burns at BURNINGMAN, definately not the man. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:52:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#02cb71e2-360e-42e8-b562-573166f126ad spectabilis 2009-06-24T18:52:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d2a75cf2-acf2-4eaa-8277-6584320660ec > ".. show that it is different than cognitive dissonance independently manifest in multiple individuals" so you refute cultural dissonance, wow, thats a pretty bold statement to make. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:45:30 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#d2a75cf2-acf2-4eaa-8277-6584320660ec spectabilis 2009-06-24T18:45:30Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ca60cacc-4ce4-4127-8cb3-15b8b41de94c Ok cool, you got the copyright. Let's confirm the existence of group cognitive dissonance. The studies would need to show that it is different than cognitive dissonance independently manifest in multiple individuals. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:18:53 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#ca60cacc-4ce4-4127-8cb3-15b8b41de94c Gold Guy 2009-06-24T13:18:53Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6a44bc0f-dfea-4f66-8f7f-4220d0b0b502 Donuts for me. They're in the cupboard. Thanks. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:54:32 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6a44bc0f-dfea-4f66-8f7f-4220d0b0b502 ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-06-24T09:54:32Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8122da5e-89e6-4c3c-8ec4-fb9f4811a0a7 needed assistance and intentions of concern wasnt my point, but aparantly its yours with a rather long stretch of logic. 'group cognitive dissonance' is my term. i declare copyright, but since you didnt know i guess i will forgive your ignorance and not charge you a fee or have my attorneys jump up your ass with an injunction. hey wait... wasnt addis an attorney? guess i will leave it up to him, hopefully you have fire insurance. 'group cognitive dissonance' is the social feelings of disturbance and anxiety of its members when two contradicting belief spaces collide. its also a more specific and stronger effect than cultural dissonance, which plays out on a larger base of membership. what you are referring to is individual and although im sure "just world hypothesis" applies for some, i was referring to confirmation bias. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:03:50 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8122da5e-89e6-4c3c-8ec4-fb9f4811a0a7 spectabilis 2009-06-24T08:03:50Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#33a5ca26-030d-4016-8eec-4c502ebc7d6c Yes, to follow up on Gold Guy's comments - after the Early Burn, there was a lot of bullshit being speard around - most of it instigated by Addis himself - that somehow there had been some plan by Addis to make sure no one would be put in danger by his actions. I was up that night watching the eclipse, and listened to the whole thing go down on the radio, and later spoke with folks who were under the tent when it happened. Addis took ZERO precautions for 'safety' - the fact that no one was injured was a combination of good luck and rangers' actions. And frankly, the fact that Addis later made up some cockamamie story trying to claim he didn't put other people at risk was one of the things that made me really unsympathetic toward him. But it did fool a lot of suckers who wanted to lionize his actions. By the way GG, I'm a 'he', but don't worry about it - a lot of people look at the name and get confused. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:53:13 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#33a5ca26-030d-4016-8eec-4c502ebc7d6c Kelly 2009-06-24T06:53:13Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b7746ed2-d91b-422a-981d-3161214dd935 But spectabilis, that no one needed assistance does not determine either the level of concern of Addis, or whether there was risk of harm. I was there too, and my perspective on it is that although unlikely, people could have been harmed. Yeah everyone was able to get out easily but it could have gone differently. What if someone have been trapped? Kelly, whom you quoted, didn't say people were harmed, she drew conclusions about Addis' level of concern. You can argue with that but she didn't say anything that could be characterized as "a rumor which turned out to be false." Rumors are a group phenomenon, and occur even if there is no bias, just through faulty replication of a message. I heard a few exagerations right after the event, but they died away quickly. "strong effect of cognitive group dissonance." --- ? I doubt there is such a thing as "group cognitive dissonance." Perhaps selective memory, biased perception, but cognitive dissonance... I don't think it works here. So you're suggesting they decided he should be punished first, then rationalized that there must have been proportional harm. That would be better described as "just world hypothesis" fallacy. If a form of cognitive bias were involved, it would be an individual phenomenon rather than a group process. Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:55:16 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b7746ed2-d91b-422a-981d-3161214dd935 Gold Guy 2009-06-24T01:55:16Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5fe429fd-858d-457b-b78a-e643c4c8fdba Looks like a good time to grab some popcorn and another frosty ;) Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:53:40 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5fe429fd-858d-457b-b78a-e643c4c8fdba Sail Man 2009-06-23T22:53:40Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#154cbe2f-7564-46c0-92b4-b5a185771ca0 "Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration — that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death; life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves... Here's Tom with the weather!" Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:16:24 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#154cbe2f-7564-46c0-92b4-b5a185771ca0 Dane 2009-06-23T22:16:24Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#717705d9-850c-44ab-96d2-ec6a699011fe m/gm; I'm glad that Paul was having visitors then. Caleb really did want to talk to Paul at the time. Possibly it was the prison that didn't want to have an interview. Anyway, that is water under the bridge now. Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:12:15 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#717705d9-850c-44ab-96d2-ec6a699011fe Deb 2009-06-23T22:12:15Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#278c0b65-3668-49e9-9ce3-6abc1ea752b2 > ".. am quite sure he was in the least concerned with the safety of the people below .. " i spent considerable time and effort confirming people were passed out and/or needed assistance in evacuating from under the structure. wasnt a single case. one ranger made that comment had her partner refute it who was with her, two more rangers said they heard it as second hand rumors even though they were present and active in setting up a safety perimeter for emergency services. not justifying addis and his action, its just that is a rumor which turned out to be false, it was an obvious and strong effect of cognitive group dissonance. Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:39:57 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#278c0b65-3668-49e9-9ce3-6abc1ea752b2 spectabilis 2009-06-23T19:39:57Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a66b933d-8f5b-457c-b400-2cf261bcb854 Tweeker'd Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:16:00 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a66b933d-8f5b-457c-b400-2cf261bcb854 Samsa 2009-06-23T04:16:00Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8ce26734-0865-409f-9515-1d6e25000ac4 paul has had steady contact (and visits when possible) with friends and family since being held in nevada. the grace cathedral incident was resolved some time ago. m/gm+ . . . Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:58:38 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8ce26734-0865-409f-9515-1d6e25000ac4 mike/gomonk+ 2009-06-22T23:58:38Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2bedd1f7-bddf-43b9-85d5-433a3011b17c In November, 2008, Caleb tried to get an interview with Paul Addis while in prison but his letter was returned unopened. Caleb then called the prison and was told that Addis was refusing all visitors and all correspondence. In my opinion, this doesn't bode well for a change in attitude by Addis nor does it appear likely that he would have received any sort of mental health assistance while incarcerated. On the other hand, he might have had a lot of crazy people trying to get in touch with him early on in his incarceration and just shut off the tap so he could reflect. One can hope. Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:23:03 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2bedd1f7-bddf-43b9-85d5-433a3011b17c Deb 2009-06-22T23:23:03Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2a6b282b-d782-413a-a0bd-01dd2d7b6f20 "It became pretty clear pretty soon that he was really fucked in the head though. Sending crazy people to prison is a very bad idea for everyone." Fair enough, but Gold Guy is right. Mental health is a lower priority than prison. Just the mindset of the people we put in power. With the ongoing budget battles getting more severe at all levels of government, even while it's not going to be as easy to get prison time, it will only grow easier to evade mental health institutions and wind up in prison instead when you do reach the tipping point. "I hope his freinds see he gets the help he needs when he's out." His personal network, in all likelihood, will be the only thing standing between him and more time in prison. Of course, that may or may not mean freedom. I know many people who insist they'd rather spend time in prison instead of a state mental facility. Most of those are criminal defense attorneys with clients in each. Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:06:36 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#2a6b282b-d782-413a-a0bd-01dd2d7b6f20 MdJGutie 2009-06-22T20:06:36Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75190bae-f0b3-4f2f-bd2b-0aacdeeefe33 <after only serving a year in prison, i wonder how they feel about it now> As someone who was not impressed with Addis's actions on the playa and am quite sure he was in the least concerned with the safety of the people below (despite his later lies) and definitely didn't care about the other people's art he destroyed, I was fine with the book being thrown at him repeartedly. It became pretty clear pretty soon that he was really fucked in the head though. Sending crazy people to prison is a very bad idea for everyone. I hope his freinds see he gets the help he needs when he's out. Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:28:38 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#75190bae-f0b3-4f2f-bd2b-0aacdeeefe33 Kelly 2009-06-22T18:28:38Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fed9ed2f-6531-4fa2-bcc9-3b14d84084a6 States cut network of care before cutting prisons. We had 26 lay offs in our county behavioral health department last year, and that was before the economic meltdown. So you know what to expect. Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:04:09 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#fed9ed2f-6531-4fa2-bcc9-3b14d84084a6 Gold Guy 2009-06-22T14:04:09Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5c8071b7-a01b-4e69-b3b0-9d04b0748d76 Hold onto your tassles kids, as things turn nastier for state budgets, more people like Addis will be turned loose on society. California is already talking about doing this. My guess is that Addis will be back doing some new kind of mayhem soon enough. Any disagreements? As an artist with a heavy steel sculpture, I was there in 2007 and remember the exhaustion of DPW and construction crews who had to work over-overtime to re-build the man because of Addis' idiotic stunt. The question will be, just how responsible will his network of care givers be in helping prevent future dangerous acts? Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:59:56 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#5c8071b7-a01b-4e69-b3b0-9d04b0748d76 cowboyangel 2009-06-22T05:59:56Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cf999d3b-0d60-473c-b174-31b28d846607 Jail time prolly didn't do a thing to curb his assholeyness; someone needs to break his kneecaps so the lesson sinks in. Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:24:34 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cf999d3b-0d60-473c-b174-31b28d846607 Steamboat Ed 2009-06-22T05:24:34Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0909192c-1b7a-4a13-a837-3080a5d108a2 "The difference being is that I own it and dropped the sanctimony a while ago. " The difference being that I have never been thrown out of any tribe and would sure as hell never rejoin, only to be thrown out again, then again, and then make and alt just to rejoin and be expelled again and again with that mask. That behavior is immature at best, disruptive at least, and disgusting in my opinion. He wants to call himself shit? More power to him. At least that we can agree on. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:35:16 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0909192c-1b7a-4a13-a837-3080a5d108a2 MdJGutie 2009-06-21T12:35:16Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a2035996-ddf1-4c43-9815-eb915a81f74c "What could they possibly be missing out on by not having you around?” http://tinyurl.com/l4w4n6 For starters. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:56:54 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#a2035996-ddf1-4c43-9815-eb915a81f74c Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-06-21T04:56:54Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#29410bdd-1861-460b-90a4-64214a09071e "So, um, you two have met? " Oh yes. However much either either us would like to deny it we're two sides of the same coin. Two facets of the same jewel. Two turds in the same punch bowl. The difference being is that I own it and dropped the sanctimony a while ago. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:08:43 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#29410bdd-1861-460b-90a4-64214a09071e Badger 2009-06-21T04:08:43Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b8d3984c-0f34-481d-9027-dc780f7289a2 Yes, Mitch. That weasel and I have crossed paths before. I had the distinct honor of throwing him out of the same tribe several times. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:13:26 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#b8d3984c-0f34-481d-9027-dc780f7289a2 MdJGutie 2009-06-21T01:13:26Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#395650db-7585-4388-a35d-32329f464161 I assume so. There's certainly a lot of airborne fur around here. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:01:45 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#395650db-7585-4388-a35d-32329f464161 Crypto 2009-06-21T01:01:45Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3cb04885-01b4-487b-995a-32c40015a556 So, um, you two have met? Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:59:55 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#3cb04885-01b4-487b-995a-32c40015a556 Mitch 2009-06-21T00:59:55Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8d16317d-2ae1-4133-968e-bf257e7c78cc Ah, Badger, or should I call you "Tantric Muffinpussy" as you tagged yourself to slime back into a tribe you'd already been thrown out of as a troll? If I'm the arrogant hypocrite, why is it I was made mod and that your exile was applauded by the rest of the tribe? Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance. If you really want to hide, I’d use the word “HOWLING” less often. It kind of marks you. I'd now say something about the appropriateness of your mask being a weasel, but I honestly hold weasels in higher esteem. Instead, this sums it up beautifully: “> Add: [3.] b. A person who pursues another You mean, the way did on this thread over on the Burning Man tribe? http://bm.tribe.net/thread/f479957f-8c93-4f56-8300-4780b36cdcc3 Let's note the time and date of your off-topic entry into that thread http://bm.tribe.net/thread/f479957f-8c93-4f56-8300-4780b36cdcc3 and note that it precedes the start of this thread. You are hardly the innocent aggrieved victim, Raymond, and I really wonder who you imagine you're fooling when you pretend to be, given your lengthy history of harassing others online, at times seemingly at random. This tribe is a case in point. If its members wished to do so, they could draw on a social network that would seem to dwarf both Burning Man and Tribe, judging from the activity level on the main PETA forum, and they certainly could bother us. If they wished to do so. Notice that they never have. They simply stay in their own group and discuss their beliefs with each other and whoever chooses to drop by. And you're just here to bother them; once again, having engaged in harassment, you wish to posture as the victim. It won't cut it, unless you manage to find a large number of really loud, really stupid and really suggestible people to hear your tale of woe and usual outright fabrications, and those never seem to be as abundant on Tribe as they were on another site I remember. I did not go looking for you. The story of your exploits here has come back to me because one of the prominent members of this group is a member of another tribe to which I belong, where she has spoken of your behavior here with less than total delight. I can't say that I blame her, or that I was surprised. The fact that you're scr**ing with an acquaintance who seems to be on her way to becoming a friend - and her peace loving associates - is reason enough for me to take an interest. I know you won't understand that concept, having seen how you treat your own friends, but to use a phrase that I perhaps overuse, I never want a friend to wonder if I'll have her back. I always will, especially when the right and wrong of the situation is so clear cut. These people, if not outright pacifists, seem pretty close to being so. How much of a coward do you have to be to pick them as the target of your abuse? The answer is, of course, as much of a coward as you've been since the day I first encountered you, and as all can see you to be at this very moment. I won't deny that I'd enjoy the idea of your sorry a** being thrown off this site, but as much as you might try to distract attention from this fact with your childish shrieking and wildly tossed accusations, I have you absolutely dead to rights on this one. This is not a trumped up charge. You've been wiping your backside on the code of conduct ever since you showed up. Take away the personal abuse, and you barely have a presence at all. Which strikes me as being an excellent reason for anybody to show you the door. What could they possibly be missing out on by not having you around?” http://peta.tribe.net/thread/58e78fd0-e1fa-4201-a9db-6f8ac721e7fd#fd7ae824-2498-4e31-a66a-2a6bc74c51df Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:48:04 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#8d16317d-2ae1-4133-968e-bf257e7c78cc MdJGutie 2009-06-20T21:48:04Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e8bb752d-d265-42ed-ba14-556cc7d3fb2c "I had NO problem with him serving time. If the good people of the state of Nevada are tired of feeding him, I think it's only a matter of time before he gives the good people of that or another state a good reason to feed him for a few more years. I only wonder what he'll do and hope other people continue not to be hurt by his crazy ass. With this state's current budget and Federal Judge woes, I doubt that Grace Cathedral will earn him many night of three hots and a cot. I'd guess he has a little more time to run amuck and another shot or two at garnering some of the attention he seems to so desperately need." How fucking ironic that you show less compassion (or concern) towards an individual who is mentally unstable than you do towards animal oppression over in your little PeTA tribe. Your hypocrisy is exceeded only by your arrogance. Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:26:41 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e8bb752d-d265-42ed-ba14-556cc7d3fb2c Badger 2009-06-20T19:26:41Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0a2e586c-8494-43b2-a5de-53c5defe2335 20 years? Dragged behind a pickup? Burned alive? Seriously? I had NO problem with him serving time. If the good people of the state of Nevada are tired of feeding him, I think it's only a matter of time before he gives the good people of that or another state a good reason to feed him for a few more years. I only wonder what he'll do and hope other people continue not to be hurt by his crazy ass. With this state's current budget and Federal Judge woes, I doubt that Grace Cathedral will earn him many night of three hots and a cot. I'd guess he has a little more time to run amuck and another shot or two at garnering some of the attention he seems to so desperately need. I second Rhino. Hold on to those bumper stickers. Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:15:37 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#0a2e586c-8494-43b2-a5de-53c5defe2335 MdJGutie 2009-06-20T18:15:37Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cf3e071a-66f0-4158-8051-ae3d767c4558 what about all the people who wanted him to serve over twenty years? what about those who said he should be hogtied and dragged behind a dpw pickup truck across the playa? what about those who said he should be burned alive? after only serving a year in prison, i wonder how they feel about it now... because a few of those people included org senior staff and two board members. Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:22:57 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#cf3e071a-66f0-4158-8051-ae3d767c4558 spectabilis 2009-06-20T16:22:57Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c2335f0f-0f67-4bae-8145-b96db217e88e http://is.gd/173X8 Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:19:31 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#c2335f0f-0f67-4bae-8145-b96db217e88e ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-06-20T06:19:31Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6639a864-2275-448d-874b-879edaf4cb10 http://people.tribe.net/51277170-8fb8-4c9a-bc04-814eb0a6d13c/photos/6f1a318a-451b-4455-896f-41c04a854288 Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:56:01 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#6639a864-2275-448d-874b-879edaf4cb10 Bob Noxious 2009-06-20T02:56:01Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#56388fc3-046c-49ad-b069-f15874d1330f Yes good for him. I hope he finds something creative, productive and rewarding. Must be good to get out :-) Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:38:16 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#56388fc3-046c-49ad-b069-f15874d1330f Gold Guy 2009-06-19T22:38:16Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#de2e6eb9-1444-46da-8f4f-ac30b21717b7 good for him. = ) Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:35:27 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#de2e6eb9-1444-46da-8f4f-ac30b21717b7 automatthew 2009-06-19T19:35:27Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bb22c6e0-bb26-4a8a-9a54-4d1061a20d9c It's a hell of a drug.. Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:42:20 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#bb22c6e0-bb26-4a8a-9a54-4d1061a20d9c Digital 2009-06-19T15:42:20Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e3392aa4-ac8b-427e-9a21-f877a713b191 That video is unwatchable. Meth fo' sho. Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:37:29 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e3392aa4-ac8b-427e-9a21-f877a713b191 Kurt 2009-06-19T15:37:29Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#94cdfca7-e966-434c-9131-bbcb925e9c51 Once he's paroled in Nevada, doesn't California get him for the Grace Cathedral attempted burn? Hold onto those bumper stickers, Christopher. Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:23:26 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#94cdfca7-e966-434c-9131-bbcb925e9c51 Rhino 2009-06-19T14:23:26Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#64629023-16ac-49be-a0a2-d80324292283 FUCK!!!!!!!!!! now what am I gonna do with 20,000 "FREE ADDIS" bumper stickers?! shit shit shit Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:05:50 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#64629023-16ac-49be-a0a2-d80324292283 Christopher 2009-06-19T10:05:50Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#38fc33d3-9984-41cf-b67d-0746c1d0b538 I was wondering about this. I knew he was scheduled for release soon. Thanks for the update. Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:44:06 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#38fc33d3-9984-41cf-b67d-0746c1d0b538 Bobzilla 2009-06-19T06:44:06Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9139db20-e9d7-4e61-ade4-94c3fa010014 Wow, in that video of Mr. Addis ranting about the war, could he have been any higher on meth? Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:14:14 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#9139db20-e9d7-4e61-ade4-94c3fa010014 Kløne 2009-06-19T06:14:14Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e505ad5c-d147-4735-936b-f60ce29ee7aa I guess he's out in time for this year's burn. ;-0 Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:12:39 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#e505ad5c-d147-4735-936b-f60ce29ee7aa Neon 2009-06-19T06:12:39Z http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#dc295e46-3b9b-4f75-8864-06949ebb49c1 Paul Addis, the man convicted of felony arson for igniting the Burning Man effigy before its scheduled conflagration in 2007, was granted parole in a unanimous vote from ... (more) http://burncast.blogspot.com/2009/06/update-paul-addis.html Fri, 19 Jun 2009 05:37:48 GMT http://bm.tribe.net/thread/3fd31c96-d7fc-4dee-90da-e0dcb351f66a#dc295e46-3b9b-4f75-8864-06949ebb49c1 ↁªɮºɱɮ 2009-06-19T05:37:48Z