Bman org. buying Fly Ranch ? ( link to Reno Gazette )

topic posted Sun, September 27, 2009 - 2:07 PM by  wendell
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wendell
Nevada
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  • Great post Wendell.
    Thanks.
    JL
    • The original blog post (which was made during the event) read like they were hoping to move the event back there. (When I say back, it was there in 1977 but only with 5,000 or so people, so that process can't be repeated.)

      But other statements suggest no, they just want to do other things there. The people who live around that playa are not keen on BM taking place on it, they went there for solitude, and would lose a month of it each year.

      On the other hand, I think it's time for a shakeup in Burning Man. Just because "we have always done things this way" is no reason they have to be done that way. On private land it would be fairly different, or at least could be. Some of the differences would be negative, some would be positive, but opposition to the negative ones might cancel even more positive speculative ones.

      I don't think it would be like permaburn, which I doubt will ever amount to a great deal.

      It is often said we gain much from having a clean slate every year, by building from scratch. Yet we have used the same city design, by and large, for 10 years. The same center camp cafe since 2001. First camp is in the same place and looks the same. So do many other repeating center camp institutions. Other than the disliked 2008 expansion it's been roughly the same size. I don't think center camp is something to cast in stone and yet that is what we have ended up doing.

      Oregon Country fair uses permanent facilities, though they get flooded each year so only the basic structures are left after the event. Nobody finds this a problem.
      • Agreed Brad www.youtube.com/watch
        Could never again be held close to the geysers.
        I have seen pics from 97 and it looked really cool but not a remote possiblity with the nature and size of the current event.
        Still , if this would give the upper house a different vantage point to look at the event and they are opening the possibility of
        letting folks enjoy supervised touring of the area then Hmmmm?
        Wife Joie and I have been to Fly Geyser a couple of times ( in the winter and unsupervised ) and got to say WOW!!!
        Also 10 time burners and YES , some kind of infusion of newness would be a a breath of fresh air.
        And Brad ,Your panos ROCK!!
        pic.templetons.com/brad/pan...burn.html
        Much respect ~Wendell~
        • Well, yes and no. Fly Geyser is cool but you would not pay it much attention if you had been to Yellowstone, for example.

          However, I think it could still be visited. I mean if people will line up to go one by one into a rocket ship or a victorian house on wheels or the Man himself, people can move at a regulated pace into the geyser or a hot spring area. It does require labour to enforce that of course. Sounds like a good Earth Guardians job, or paid staff since it's private land.

          I think BRC could still retain a lot of what it is if it had a permanent center around which the city could be built. Just core permanent structures upon which different camps put facades and other facilities.

          Further, if the design of the city is really not going to change, I would run the core of an electrical distribution grid. The way we do power today is dreadful. We all put up inefficient, smelly, noisy generators and don't even share them very well. Center camp does a power ring but still from trucked in generators and fuel.

          There are things that could go wrong of course. It would need to be buried (art cars are 40' tall some of them) and thus disconnected and protected during the wet season. And if it failed a whole city blackout would be a reminder that we had given up the radical self-reliance that comes with dirty, smelly, noisy power. But is the self-reliance worth that cost?
          • im pretty sure centercamp powergrid is 'clean' and has been for a few years now... solar/biofuels

            • Yes, about 6 generators around the city (at least in 2008 when our group was one of them) run biodiesel from Bently Biofuels made from recycled veggie oil. And I think 4 of them are BMOrg ones. The number may be up now (I don't count private generators as I have no way to know about them.) But I think most of the generators run regular fuel, and a lot of people use gasoline generators that are much less efficient.

              Point is, once you put in a permanent facility you are going to run power to it. Of course how many kw you run is another question. Running enough for the center camp grid requires high tension wires over any distance, so it's not trivial.
          • In 1997 we were charged $5 to use Fly Geyser. Very other-worldy and beautiful experience.

            BTW - Snow Koan camp brought $100,000 of solar panels which pumped out an impressive 24.5 KW. They say BMORG would save $$$ and set a good precedent by using electric golf carts and not polluting the air I guess an average bean-counter could work out the details of how long it would take to payback? Guess we would need the figure on gasoline usage from the annual budget.
            • What did they do with the solar panels after the burn? Solar panels used for camping or one week a year are not green, quite the opposite. For solar panels to have any chance of being green they need to be grid tied, so that you are not wasting most of the energy potential by having them disconnected or connected only to batteries that are not highly discharged.

              In fact, you are wasting them if you put them somewhere without very good insolation connected to a grid that is highly dependent on coal. Arizona is one of the few places in the USA where it makes sense to do PV because of all the coal they burn there (and it is debatable if it's true even there.)
              • They belong to a professional Solar systems outfit. Here is the story from Tuesday's Black Rock Beacon:
                SNOW KOAN LIGHTS UP THE PLAYA
                By Rod Allen

                Snow Koan Solar has been bringing solar arrays to the Playa for four years — but this year, the camp has brought enough equipment to power a whole village at Black Rock City, or five to 10 Californian energy-guzzling homes.
                Will Power, Snow Koan Solar’s camp leader, said that if the number of gasoline-powered generators on the Playa could be reduced, Burning Man would not only be a cleaner event but Burners might save some money, too. “They care about the earth with their ‘leave no trace’ policy,” he said, “but they don’t seem to give a shit about the air.”
                This year’s Snow Koan camp has an array of 144 solar panels, generating 24.5 kilowatts of electricity at full power (less if it is cloudy, and a little less if the panels get dusty.) This, Snow Koan is supplying all of Nectar Village and some outlying camps as well.
                Some of the users are supplied direct by means of a microgrid, while others get their electricity delivered in the form of heavy-duty batteries, of the kind used in
                Snow Koan Lights Up the Playafork lift trucks, which are recharged by the solar array.
                Power’s associate, Still Marc, said anyone, whether a hobbyist, homeowner, or business, can save money using solar power. The panels, which cost $600 each, supply 175 watts, and in California you get paid by the state for all the surplus electricity you pump back into the system.
                Power has been interested in electricity “since he was three years old”, he said, and he is frustrated by the way in which people fail to understand the potential of solar-powered systems.
                He was critical of the Burning Man organization for using gas-powered vehicles at Black Rock City, and says that his main objective, prior to taking over the world, would be to see the Bmorg banning two-stroke scooters on the Playa and then to adopt electric-powered vehicles overall.
                Snow Koan Solar can be found at DNA and 8:30.
              • I love my own little garden solar lights.

                Coincidentally, the Gerlach area narrowly missed getting a massive coal burning power plant a few years ago which would have pumped massive amounts of water from the ground possibly fucking up the area's hot springs for ever, not to mention putting nasty stuff like mercury into the air. Not to mention CO2.

                Checkout the 8/31/2005 Black Rock Beacon archive:

                blackrockbeacon.org/archive.htm
                • Technally speaking, the coal plant could come back from the dead. Sempra Energy decided not to build it; the BLM didn't decide to not allow them the opportunity. Another party could decide to build it and the whole thing could be reopened. Much as I like to think that letters that Metric and other burners wrote were the deciding factor, I have to (cough, cough) admit (cough) that it was (cough) Arnie (cough, cough, cough--dang these coal plants put out a lot of smoke) with his order that out-of-state energy be renewable. All it takes is for another governer to be elected (next year? 2011?) and for this new governer to recind the order. So, don't count your coal chickens before they hatch.
  • Whatever. I'm not sure why they might want it, why they can't do what they want on the land they already own and what a "man-made" Geyser is.
    • As to a man made geyser, many years ago, people started drilling to find water in the desert. Instead they found geothermal water, hot, with sulfur, not what they wanted. But apparently what they opened up caused a hidden hole to start spouting the water, resulting in Fly geyser. After many years deposits have built up to make the coloured little hill you see.

      It's not a natural wonder. I'm surprised there is great call to preserve it.
      • Well the GG bridge is not a natural wonder either but I hope they preserve it. ;-)

        It is a fascinating formation after just a few decades, wish I could see what it will look like in a few hundred years.

        Also, frog pond is not natural. The water comes out of an old pipe that is full of holes. Causes one to wonder if more "frog ponds" might be created if you just drilled a bit and added a pipe. No doubt there are regulations about such things these days.. i.e. drilling into the aquifer in the Black Rock basin.
  • JD
    JD
    offline 0
    From the post on the Burning Blog, it looks like they want the land to hold conferences and such, not the actual event itself:
    blog.burningman.com/

    I'm not in favor of any kind of permanent structures and/or infrastructure, as I think building from the ground up every year, as well as having to be responsible for your own power and the various and myriad creative way people solve this, is a big part of what makes BM a unique event. I agree that it's probably less efficient and certainly less green, but for me, those two factors are not as important with regard to the event. The vast majority of pollution comes from us driving out there, especially during the exodus and busier times of arrival. In fact, coming up with a better traffic strategy would be priority #1 if I was running things.

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