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i am involved in an event where they are lighting a large wooden structure on fire. The people putting it on said that they are going to use diesel fuel. Bad idea???
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 6:22 PMgood idea as it's not as explosive and burns longer.... -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 9:06 PMDiesel oil or kerosene is the way to go. Diesel fuel will get a burn going quite nicely,while kerosene tends to make for more smoke but you don't get the same evaporation you do with diesel. Charcoal lighter fluid is NOT the way to go. Once it heats up, it FLARES. Gasoline/air mix is explosive, so you definitely don't want to go that route. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 9:26 PMIf it is a large structure OR you wish to speed up the process, burlap bags, rolled into cylinders and dipped in parafin attached to the structure will enhance the burning. If you wish to make the burn look nicer, lace the parafin with large amounts of copper chloride and lithium chloride. The effect will be stunning.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:14 PMDiesel fuel's flashpoint is 450 degrees, takes a lot to get it going. It is smoky! Kerosene burns cleaner because it does not have the added detergents. MyLarry suggests a diesel/gasoline mix, but be careful. Very careful.
Paraffin starters are an excellent idea.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:28 PMquite frankly, this is not the type of activity you should be researching on tribe. go find someone who knows what they are talking about. You could email DaveX from BMorg, i dunno if he will respond, but he does all of the pyrotechnics for the man burn. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 1:54 AMactually he dosnt do all the pyro for the man....there is another whole crew of experts that dose that...but thats not to say Dave X dosn't know his shit....
and a ratio of 1 to 5 ....petrol to diesel is a good mix...try it out at home in the back yard...
we used all petrol to achieve this www.youtube.com/watch idiots.... -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 9:11 PMSo true... Dave X couldn't light a match.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:32 PMActually it was White Gas this year, someone correct me if I am wrong but Colorado Conclave supplied the fuel for the burn because we had so much extra this year. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 11:48 PMDaveX does not do any of the Pyro for the Man. That is done by Becky and Dimitri Domitrovich and their team. They are usually way too busy for much of anything else there. They are professionals and make a living doing fireworks and special effects year round. Much of the other Pyro on the Playa, such as Crude Awakening, Mutopia, Rock Opera, Raygun Gothic Rocketship is done by Black Rock FX. Everything suggested here has been correct. Diesel has more oils and additives than kerosene. The ideal fuel would be JetA or JP8, but an 80/20 mixture of kero (or diesel) and gas would work well. I suggested the chemicals because they do not create any noxious vapors when burning as pryo chems do and the visual would be stunning. I have done this sort of thing once or twice.
Jack
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 2:11 AMYeah, they asked the conclaves via their helmsmen for any extra white gas if they had it after the performance and before they began the fireworks. If I remember correctly, they wanted us to run it over to the 2:00 position to whomever was over there taking care of the pyro. By the time I'd relayed the message they called out again that they had enough, thanks to the conclaves who donated, no need for more. Then they had to toss in a thousand flares to finally get the thing going.
... but I agree that I'd only look at this thread for a lead as to where to go to really ask. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 4:48 AMI love you people. Looking at regionals and the happy faces around the burns made me cry. Thank you, kiwi. Reminding me of home and our little regional burn does that:
www.youtube.com/watch
The copper chloride and lithium cholride (green and red color additives, respectively) are also a nice touch to a burn.
Somebody get Tedward in here to discuss the safety aspects of it all. Safety third, kids. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Fri, October 16, 2009 - 10:29 PM"Somebody get Tedward in here to discuss the safety aspects of it all. Safety third, kids. "
Tedward has been paged.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 2:44 AMOkay, colored fire spinning is dangerous in about 100 ways. The top few are:
1) The metal salts do not dissolve in standard alkane petro-chems, so white gas and lamp oil are out. You MUST use a polar solvent like water alcohol, MEK, etc.
2) For the very best color, the solvent with the fewest carbon atoms must be used: Methanol. Methanol works like ethanol: gets you drunk, changes your judgement, hangovers, etc. However, it can do so through inhalation and skin absorption; PLUS once it's in your blood it turns to formic acid and starts attacking your nervous system. First one down... vision.
3) Ethanol in 90%+ is very hard to find, doesn't work as well, but is popular in "denatured" form. The "denaturing" process usually involves adding 4 to 50% Methanol plus a thiol to make it taste bad. It, too can make you drunk through unexpected vectors.
4) Some of the salts are fairly innocuous, but the most popular green comes from boric acid. Screwing up the mix on this will result in Kevlar, brass, steel and some grades of aluminum getting eaten entirely through.
5) The best salts, of course, are restricted materials: Lithium chloride (for treatment of depression), Strontium chloride (slightly radioactive), etc.
6) Regardless of the combination of fuels and salts, about 1% of the population is highly sensitive to exposure to the waste products. Symptoms include blindness (temp), respiratory failure, extreme rash, skin eruptions, allergic reactions, discoloration, and death.
7) Many formulas do not leave the tool. It's often impossible to use one tool for many colors as residual color burns will continue for the life of the tool, with the same potential for side effects.
-=>Ask your physician if using "Colored Fuels" is right for you <=-
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 8:22 AMI am curious by what you mean by "restricted materials". Lithium Chloride is readily available without any special purchase requirement, it can be shipped VIA air and it has several other uses. The most common is in commericial air dryers as it is highly hyrdascopic. A good sub for boric acid is copper sulfate, a bovine food additive and also used for killing stumps. There is another solvent with the properties of and viscosity of white gas so it is great for spinning, AND the salts will disolve into it. I am not experiment with it and I will report my findings soon. Below is green from my flame effects device using copper sulfate. The white sparkles you see are from injecting titanium sponge into the jet stream.
www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne
Jack -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 11:27 AMIt's possible that I'm confusing my Lithiums. yes.
What's the solvent? -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 12:26 PMfeel we may have got a little advanced in explaining how to light art on fire.... as a fire builder you need some focused energy so a 1'000 flares don't need to be used.... the base of the man this year was hollow so it didn't catch even with the 1-5 mix of fuel and some piles of pallets etc.... must be a fine line between building a piece of art that will burn and simply building a fire..... most smaller pieces will burn fine as long as at it's base is a good stack of wood is used to get it going and then started with a fuel mix....
l agree wax is a great way to get things started too and the flash of flame looks good yet isn't enough to get some fires going....
will be helping with a fire on the open playa on wednesday night ie thursday morning next year if you wish to see a focused fire.... -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 12:34 PMYeah. Thought so.
and I checked, I did confuse the salts. Lithium Carbonate is the restricted one, though LiCl is toxic when taken internally. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sat, October 17, 2009 - 9:06 PMTedward, thanks for showing up. Welcome back to the main tribe.
I think we were talking about effigy burning here, and now we're talking fire spinning. What gives? Not that your safety advice isn't equally applicable...... -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 2:09 AMI was paged to talk on subjects that I know. Frankly I haven't had much direct involvement with effigy burning. But I have had a lot of experience with fire spinning on this topic. So, you preach what you know.
My one serious experience with effigy-like stuff and colors were the Nausts back in 02 or so. Tons of Boric acid in them, to get a green color, took out half my conclave.
I have no idea what stuff went into the various Burning Woman Effigies that we did...
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 12:43 PM"what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?"
Puppy fat. The grease the ancient redwood timbers with the fat of week old puppies. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 2:00 PMHey Badger,
A few years back a Ranger started a rumor, something to the effect that the LLC uses spent Uraniam to "accelerate" the burn. You wouldn't have any clue to who might have said such a thing........... I remember the office actually received letters asking them to stop the practice. I think the Raygun Gothic Rocket launch was a better prank, though. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 3:33 PMIt's probably the result of reading this post right after catching up on the Barbara Ehrenreich, but I'm seeing this Uranium prank as getting "legs" from people's generalized anxiety about atomic energy and atomic war and maybe even the whole Yucca Mountain thing. Rumors are not simply lies told to people, they are lies told to people that "hook" into their minds in such a way that they tell other people. Yeah, basic Brunvand again.
As for the Rocket launch, I just feel chagrined that I fell for that one. I never heard the other, so I can't say what's higher on the fooling Crypto scale.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 7:13 PMIts Nevada.
Far to the south is the Nevada test Site.
Adjacent to that is the proposed Yucca Mountain high-level spent-waste repository.
Add to the the fact that the north-western region of the Basin and Range province has one of the highest levels of *naturally* occurring uranium in the drinking water west of the Mississippi river and you get a nice bowl of ingredients to mix your favorite conspiracy recipe together and sell it as 'fact.'
BTW, there'd be no reason to use spent U238 to 'accelerate' the Man burn. Magnesium would be the better option and in fact has been part of the burn in long ago Man burns that took place in the earlier 90's. As far as the rumor mongering goes I'll state categorically that *I* don't think I started that one. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 7:24 PMNaturally a fast burning metal such as magnesium would work better. That is not the issue. What "sounds" better if you are trying to lure someone into a prank? The fear factor of spent uranium is much greater than that of magnesium.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 9:10 PMAnd there's Hanford, not all that far away in Washington state......and there's Sandia in New Mexico........
Good friggin' grief.
I suppose some of the geniuses here could tell you how much paperwork is involved in the inspection, transfer, use, and disposal of nuclear (read 'radioactive') materials, especially in the medical field. Also the construction inspection field (they have nuclear moisture-density gauges that are used, for instance, to achieve the optimal state of moisture in a subgrade under a highway pavement that use Americium-131.) It's so damn easy to put together a conspiracy theory out west or a fictitional 'dirty bomb' plot that it's crazy.
I'll say this only once: Spent uranium or any other spent nuclear fuel was never used to start the Man on fire. Ever. I don't think the BMOrg knows the safety precautions, protocols, inspections, or protections that go with the use of radioactive material. And I don't think they ever will need to. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Sun, October 18, 2009 - 10:02 PMAnd then there's the Meteor Ignition Project that is alleged to be used to start the Man burning in 2010. Strictly speaking it's not a meteor, though, some hacker is just going to de-orbit the ISS for the burn. Best not to be in the front row.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 7:01 AMdr. p:
There's insufficient velocity on the part of the ISS for an atmospheric penetration. It burns up on the way in. A wonderful postulation of a theory, though. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 9:31 AMWay to squelch a potential rumor with cold, hard, dreary facts, Rhino. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 10:25 AMSeriously! Rhino's been quite the wet blanket here lately.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 11:56 AMI'm not so sure that we would not get sufficient surviving material at the surface. The ISS is the largest object (or assemblage of objects) that has ever been placed in orbit by humans. There is ample evidence of items from smaller orbiting objects reaching the ground. See
www.space.com/news/spaceh..._000602.html
Hitting the man would be quite a feat, though. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 4:19 PMRhino, try to use your smarts for good instead of evil. Give us a way this can happen. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 4:32 PMWell, to begin with, I need the uplink to add the control codes to the programming, calculate trajectories,and make sure the angles are just right for re-entry.
And I need the control codes as well.
Somebody give me that, we'll turn the man into kindling, and put a crater where he was. Ands do it on Tuesday in honor of Paul Addis. -
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 7:34 PMThe GAO thinks that we've got a chance.
www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...ulnerable
Sadly, my computer skills are in building systems rather than cracking them.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 10:58 PMWell, at least DOD does my payroll, and not NASA.
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Re: what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 10:56 PMGood job, Rhino. Tuesday is better for me. If I'm in conclave, I'd be in the front row on Saturday, but getting this done on Tuesday means I get my discount ticket AND get Saturday off! You say this is happening next year? I'll just avoid the esplanade that day. Thanks!
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radioactive man...
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 11:41 AM
interesting...
how about thermite man...let's watch him melt.
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Re: radioactive man...
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:12 AMthe bigger question is WHO lights the man!? -
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Re: radioactive man...
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 4:02 AMand the BIGGER question is why!?
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Re: radioactive man...
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 11:18 AMThere was a year back in the late 90's (I think) where the Man had a bunch of magnesium bicycle frames pieces placed in him. Once things got cooking it looked more like a lighthouse beam than a burning pyre of wood.
It was quite impressive.
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