what kind of fuel do they use to light the the man on fire?

topic posted Thu, October 15, 2009 - 2:40 PM by  leah
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i am involved in an event where they are lighting a large wooden structure on fire. The people putting it on said that they are going to use diesel fuel. Bad idea???
posted by:
leah
Montana
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  • Actually it was White Gas this year, someone correct me if I am wrong but Colorado Conclave supplied the fuel for the burn because we had so much extra this year.
    • DaveX does not do any of the Pyro for the Man. That is done by Becky and Dimitri Domitrovich and their team. They are usually way too busy for much of anything else there. They are professionals and make a living doing fireworks and special effects year round. Much of the other Pyro on the Playa, such as Crude Awakening, Mutopia, Rock Opera, Raygun Gothic Rocketship is done by Black Rock FX. Everything suggested here has been correct. Diesel has more oils and additives than kerosene. The ideal fuel would be JetA or JP8, but an 80/20 mixture of kero (or diesel) and gas would work well. I suggested the chemicals because they do not create any noxious vapors when burning as pryo chems do and the visual would be stunning. I have done this sort of thing once or twice.

      Jack
    • Yeah, they asked the conclaves via their helmsmen for any extra white gas if they had it after the performance and before they began the fireworks. If I remember correctly, they wanted us to run it over to the 2:00 position to whomever was over there taking care of the pyro. By the time I'd relayed the message they called out again that they had enough, thanks to the conclaves who donated, no need for more. Then they had to toss in a thousand flares to finally get the thing going.

      ... but I agree that I'd only look at this thread for a lead as to where to go to really ask.
      • I love you people. Looking at regionals and the happy faces around the burns made me cry. Thank you, kiwi. Reminding me of home and our little regional burn does that:

        www.youtube.com/watch

        The copper chloride and lithium cholride (green and red color additives, respectively) are also a nice touch to a burn.

        Somebody get Tedward in here to discuss the safety aspects of it all. Safety third, kids.
        • Okay, colored fire spinning is dangerous in about 100 ways. The top few are:
          1) The metal salts do not dissolve in standard alkane petro-chems, so white gas and lamp oil are out. You MUST use a polar solvent like water alcohol, MEK, etc.
          2) For the very best color, the solvent with the fewest carbon atoms must be used: Methanol. Methanol works like ethanol: gets you drunk, changes your judgement, hangovers, etc. However, it can do so through inhalation and skin absorption; PLUS once it's in your blood it turns to formic acid and starts attacking your nervous system. First one down... vision.
          3) Ethanol in 90%+ is very hard to find, doesn't work as well, but is popular in "denatured" form. The "denaturing" process usually involves adding 4 to 50% Methanol plus a thiol to make it taste bad. It, too can make you drunk through unexpected vectors.
          4) Some of the salts are fairly innocuous, but the most popular green comes from boric acid. Screwing up the mix on this will result in Kevlar, brass, steel and some grades of aluminum getting eaten entirely through.
          5) The best salts, of course, are restricted materials: Lithium chloride (for treatment of depression), Strontium chloride (slightly radioactive), etc.
          6) Regardless of the combination of fuels and salts, about 1% of the population is highly sensitive to exposure to the waste products. Symptoms include blindness (temp), respiratory failure, extreme rash, skin eruptions, allergic reactions, discoloration, and death.
          7) Many formulas do not leave the tool. It's often impossible to use one tool for many colors as residual color burns will continue for the life of the tool, with the same potential for side effects.
          -=>Ask your physician if using "Colored Fuels" is right for you <=-

          ;)
          • I am curious by what you mean by "restricted materials". Lithium Chloride is readily available without any special purchase requirement, it can be shipped VIA air and it has several other uses. The most common is in commericial air dryers as it is highly hyrdascopic. A good sub for boric acid is copper sulfate, a bovine food additive and also used for killing stumps. There is another solvent with the properties of and viscosity of white gas so it is great for spinning, AND the salts will disolve into it. I am not experiment with it and I will report my findings soon. Below is green from my flame effects device using copper sulfate. The white sparkles you see are from injecting titanium sponge into the jet stream.

            www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne

            Jack
            • It's possible that I'm confusing my Lithiums. yes.

              What's the solvent?
              • feel we may have got a little advanced in explaining how to light art on fire.... as a fire builder you need some focused energy so a 1'000 flares don't need to be used.... the base of the man this year was hollow so it didn't catch even with the 1-5 mix of fuel and some piles of pallets etc.... must be a fine line between building a piece of art that will burn and simply building a fire..... most smaller pieces will burn fine as long as at it's base is a good stack of wood is used to get it going and then started with a fuel mix....
                l agree wax is a great way to get things started too and the flash of flame looks good yet isn't enough to get some fires going....
                will be helping with a fire on the open playa on wednesday night ie thursday morning next year if you wish to see a focused fire....
                • Yeah. Thought so.

                  and I checked, I did confuse the salts. Lithium Carbonate is the restricted one, though LiCl is toxic when taken internally.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Tedward, thanks for showing up. Welcome back to the main tribe.

                    I think we were talking about effigy burning here, and now we're talking fire spinning. What gives? Not that your safety advice isn't equally applicable......
                    • I was paged to talk on subjects that I know. Frankly I haven't had much direct involvement with effigy burning. But I have had a lot of experience with fire spinning on this topic. So, you preach what you know.

                      My one serious experience with effigy-like stuff and colors were the Nausts back in 02 or so. Tons of Boric acid in them, to get a green color, took out half my conclave.

                      I have no idea what stuff went into the various Burning Woman Effigies that we did...

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