Tribe.net. Local Connections PUMA http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#df5dc644-ff85-4798-a6ac-1097d50edcfd 2009-04-09T19:30:40Z 2009-04-09T19:30:40Z

The whole planet's gonna be a golden hue of caramel in 1000 years anyway. If we don't cause our own extinction first. Love, Grattitude, Respect. PUMA Irish, English, Oglala Lakota. Fuck me, eh.

PUMA 2009-04-09T19:30:40Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#cd8d130c-e3a8-431a-8e84-2161d6d712cb 2009-04-08T22:36:26Z 2009-04-08T22:36:26Z

My guess would be that if anyone was gonna be banned, they'd be banned for the lack of originality in impersonating someone else's lack of originality. As for banning, if BM has avoided banning stupidity or poor taste, I doubt they're going to be tempted to ban insensitivity anytime soon. As if banning anything were the issue... jeez.

embersandsparks 2009-04-08T22:36:26Z Erick http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#964ecd68-6741-4e12-a27e-4b08bb03cc12 2009-04-08T21:45:25Z 2009-04-08T21:45:25Z

That happend to me to, swear to gawd. Prolly the same orange party, 04' I think. But they had a whole tent of orange stuff to put on, so that does not count.

Erick 2009-04-08T21:45:25Z atom is ever changing http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#f9048d1a-70e6-40b9-8a62-a3ecc2f67864 2009-04-08T19:25:07Z 2009-04-08T19:25:07Z

this one time at burningman I was in orange and I was told I could not come into the orange party because I did not have enough orange. Bastards.....

atom is ever changing 2009-04-08T19:25:07Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#145f5864-5fd0-432a-8578-097d9d17fff3 2009-04-08T17:59:03Z 2009-04-08T17:59:03Z

And at the risk of killing this thread....... I'm the one getting bored with you guys. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Big Dave 2009-04-08T17:59:03Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#4e6ac243-8a7e-490a-87b8-10ea2d7b4bff 2009-04-08T17:55:02Z 2009-04-08T17:55:02Z

Please bring it on babies.........

Big Dave 2009-04-08T17:55:02Z Badger http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#aa3d9593-8856-490c-ace3-8a9d20e30a9a 2009-04-08T17:46:29Z 2009-04-08T17:46:29Z

(Badger resists the impulse to say "meh, they're all just clueless, unoriginal asstards waiting for the next 'new' cultural practice to appropriate.")

Badger 2009-04-08T17:46:29Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a3886ff7-746c-4b51-acef-7869c4ff9bc5 2009-04-08T17:31:36Z 2009-04-08T17:31:36Z

(Crypto resists the impulse to say "meh, they're all children.")

Crypto 2009-04-08T17:31:36Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#199f7cf0-7c95-4506-be03-4c2fb32c0f7f 2009-04-08T17:20:13Z 2009-04-08T17:20:13Z

"Sundays find me on Kehena, SCUBA diving off the beach " One of the best drums circles on the planet is at Kehena as well. A bunch of Rainbow Natives if ever there were. Love it!

Big Dave 2009-04-08T17:20:13Z Bobzilla http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#664fd078-c4cf-4a7e-97f5-b41741933006 2009-04-08T01:58:44Z 2009-04-08T01:58:44Z

>E-Dance in Hawaii Never been to that but I've stayed at Kalani several times. Sundays find me on Kehena, SCUBA diving off the beach

Bobzilla 2009-04-08T01:58:44Z Passion http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b33a0d9f-47b1-4f92-bb32-da955f944f30 2009-04-07T15:21:31Z 2009-04-07T15:21:31Z

Dr. P - You have said so much with so few words. Thank you.

Passion 2009-04-07T15:21:31Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#83eabec1-9ca3-4df5-a9df-dd56013e0e2d 2009-04-07T05:49:23Z 2009-04-07T05:49:23Z

<Around the time this melting pot concept was introduced to me in the first grade, I remember getting dog tags in .... "in case of an atomic bomb"... > Is this the first time it's occurred to you that just about all the tell children is not only lies, but also really weird lies? And wouldn't your dog tags have been turned to dust no slower than you yourself? Or were they specially formulated to get their sillouette on the nearest wall, with the appropriate whatever to show just where you became one with the wind? See, this is why they don't let me near children. Nightmares for weeks some of them had. Existential nightmares, but in an eight year old it's even less pretty.

Crypto 2009-04-07T05:49:23Z Badger http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#747387dc-088b-4d33-9bdb-6961f898f6c8 2009-04-07T05:33:23Z 2009-04-07T05:33:23Z

" Because it's about hippies, ie on-topic." God, I'm HOWLING!!!

Badger 2009-04-07T05:33:23Z Bob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d6e9c903-3807-424a-9894-553cdb2b927e 2009-04-07T03:01:20Z 2009-04-07T03:01:20Z

And why did *you* reply to my post and not the OP?

Bob 2009-04-07T03:01:20Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b6fecb29-c0de-4100-8e2f-50ec1051ca1b 2009-04-06T17:16:17Z 2009-04-06T17:16:17Z

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Big Dave 2009-04-06T17:16:17Z Bob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d7bb61d6-7a75-41c6-87a1-09f006dba6b4 2009-04-06T15:38:22Z 2009-04-06T15:38:22Z

Because it's about hippies, ie on-topic.

Bob 2009-04-06T15:38:22Z Peter http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d341c114-6656-43ca-834c-01b8245342e3 2009-04-06T12:32:22Z 2009-04-06T12:31:22Z

> Should we start compiling a list of other oppressed cultures whose symbols we're not allowed to incorporate into our designs< Would those dressing as the Village People be banned for appropriating f those who the Village People appropriated from or banned for appropriating the gay culture?

Peter 2009-04-06T12:31:22Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#adabdda3-aae0-4853-a089-1a92f32c21f1 2009-04-06T06:17:43Z 2009-04-06T06:17:43Z

<I love that place. > (E-Dance in Hawaii) It's the the best "tribe" I know first hand. Gave me back my wings. I miss Max though.

Big Dave 2009-04-06T06:17:43Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6f0361bd-1d83-4083-8c98-448cebc60f16 2009-04-06T06:15:21Z 2009-04-06T06:15:21Z

<Is this what yall are upset over? > Not us, "them" ????

Big Dave 2009-04-06T06:15:21Z Bob Noxious http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#821c6608-a4cf-4a29-af1a-aa8cb21c7077 2009-04-06T03:16:06Z 2009-04-06T03:16:06Z

Is this what yall are upset over? http://people.tribe.net/51277170-8fb8-4c9a-bc04-814eb0a6d13c/photos/4988003d-30cb-48b5-a8d5-3ec7d7296f22

Bob Noxious 2009-04-06T03:16:06Z Bobzilla http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#893e0153-5dab-43d9-8bcd-4c8f60229c4b 2009-04-06T03:02:02Z 2009-04-06T03:02:02Z

>Go hang out at an E-Dance on Sunday morning at Kalani Retreat on the Big Island. You will be blessed. I love that place.

Bobzilla 2009-04-06T03:02:02Z ~FaF~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ce4b5bc3-22aa-4de1-874c-223d01f17f57 2009-04-05T18:19:17Z 2009-04-05T18:19:17Z

Finisia Medrano She walks the talk. She was jailed for it. http://www.pullingforwildflowers.org/

~FaF~ 2009-04-05T18:19:17Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#3d0616da-ae12-4146-9788-e0f181dbd8f4 2009-04-05T18:16:57Z 2009-04-05T18:16:57Z

Melting Pot - "white and protestant. " Hawaii is a great melting pot of many flavors and believe me, respect is a given there. The people there I like to call my tribe are from every race and walk of life. Love it Need it (miss you guys!!xoxox) Go hang out at an E-Dance on Sunday morning at Kalani Retreat on the Big Island. You will be blessed. On this "Native" party fuck up. It seems to me some well intended folks got a lesson in tribal respect. If they grow from it, well ok. Next........

Big Dave 2009-04-05T18:16:57Z ki-ren http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b88fe5a2-fae2-4c6b-b227-96fc3e145003 2009-04-05T18:15:34Z 2009-04-05T18:15:34Z

Why is this discussion happening.

ki-ren 2009-04-05T18:15:34Z Rob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#68f470f3-58ae-4935-90d8-c9fbd3c32128 2009-04-05T18:04:10Z 2009-04-05T18:04:10Z

"white and protestant. " Never thought that far about it as a kid.... I really took it to mean that everyone learned English and got to take American holidays off from school. Around the time this melting pot concept was introduced to me in the first grade, I remember getting dog tags in .... "in case of an atomic bomb"... I know it's throwing this off tangent, but anyone else get them? This was in New York... Brooklyn to be specific.

Rob 2009-04-05T18:04:10Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#fb93573f-7490-42e1-9697-bdff5d2265bb 2009-04-05T16:23:00Z 2009-04-05T16:23:00Z

I think even when it was a "melting pot" (and yes, I remember that metaphor too) it was believed that what it all gooed up as was something white and protestant. Just sayin'.

Crypto 2009-04-05T16:23:00Z Rob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#26e04783-653c-4bfd-a049-ba27acf55961 2009-04-05T14:39:44Z 2009-04-05T14:39:44Z

When I was growing up, the American experience was called a melting pot. The concept that all our cultures and differences were melded into a common experience. Later it was described as a patchwork quilt. Different cultures and differences united together for a common good. Just throwing this out there.

Rob 2009-04-05T14:39:44Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#05b98f96-3084-4071-9d09-853c30e08bdc 2009-04-05T05:37:47Z 2009-04-05T05:37:47Z

<I thought that when it comes to art... anything goes.... appropriating images and or concepts is part of art. > This is a very new approach to art, I'd say less than 150 years. Depending on exactly where you draw the line. I've forgotten the exact art school spiel that went with Manet's Olympia and how it was ground-breaking at the time because she was looking back at the men who were looking at her and what previous nudes she was invoking, so there's that. And certainly there are traditions. And obviously rennasance italian painters/sculptors took a lot from Romans and Greeks and Romans who had taken from Greeks. On the other hand if you start poking around websites and books on collage and altered books you don't have to look far to find warnings on NOT taking too much material under copywrite if you want to commercially sell your work. (This is a gross paraphrase: I don't understand the issues.) And it's not well defined what "fair use" might be under the circumstances. My objection to our taking American Indian images is that "we" (meaning the "white man" in a general sense, I'm playing it very loose here) have taken almost all their land (and left them the least promising of what was available), forbidden them their languages, killed them, etc, etc, leaving them with this ghettoized role of mystic, in-tune-with-nature pure and innocent people. In some ways their cultures are all that they have left. And when you think of Navaho blankets and pottery, etc, you get to a point where that's an important source of income as well. I also believe in cross-cultural fertilization and live with that tension, so please don't put me into a box. I just think that all too often, when we do these things we make a mish-mash of multiple cultures and inscribe meanings that don't belong there. As another important Indian experience in the Indian wars of the mid to late 19th century was to have a chunk of your tribe massacured by the army on Tuesday, and then have army anthropologists robbing the graves of bodies and grave goods on Thursday that you know, it's just sort of adding insult to injury to steal ideas, often filtered through our own cultural misconceptions. And I'm going to say here that my mother's people came to this country in the 1880s and 1890s and didn't get further west than Buffalo NY and my father's family immigrated here in the 1930s fleeing other troubles and yet as an inheritor of the culture that did so much massacuring, although not a direct descendent of anyone invovlved (as far as I know) that I at least have inherited the obligation to be honest about what happened to whom. And while I think there is such a thing as our all being human beings together, I don't think that we get to impose that on anybody before justice is served.

Crypto 2009-04-05T05:37:47Z Rob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#e5edaf0f-16c4-490b-87cb-a4105fd8904b 2009-04-05T03:50:14Z 2009-04-05T03:50:14Z

I thought that when it comes to art... anything goes.... appropriating images and or concepts is part of art. Some art is offensive and provocative on purpose to make people think about issues or ideas.... to spark controversy to change the way we perceive the world around us. And to reiterate what was said prior to this post, what offends one person doesn't always offend another.

Rob 2009-04-05T03:50:14Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ed925081-3d97-43d9-938e-ca233dc1438b 2009-04-05T02:45:09Z 2009-04-05T02:45:09Z

and, if appropriate is defined in terms of intent, what exactly was the intent in this case that made it appropriation? "Appropriation, on the other hand, has everything to do with intent and mindfulness (or lack thereof)."

automatthew 2009-04-05T02:45:09Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#e1c09581-c531-4f16-8115-0ee551114b10 2009-04-05T02:39:24Z 2009-04-05T02:39:24Z

several. and they don't dress like that. so why is it sensitive and together for people to dress up in pseudo-gypsy outfits and it isn't to dress up in native american outfits? have you checked with the roma people that what you're doing isn't offensive? what if it's offensive to one roma and not another one? why should we care about offending people anyway? people get offended about all kinds of things. "Oh for fuck's sake. Dressing in historical, ethnic, traditional, or wacked-the-fuck out costume is NOT automatically "appropriation" by definition. It's dressing up. Appropriation, on the other hand, has everything to do with intent and mindfulness (or lack thereof). It's not appropriation if you understand what you're doing, do so with some sensitivity to the culture in question, and with some education and respect for what you're doing. If you have a solid sense of what you're doing and wearing, you're unlikely to adopt customs or dress that are offensive by nature to their originators. Oh and really... how many real live "gypsies" have you met in person? Sheesh. "

automatthew 2009-04-05T02:39:24Z Gordy http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#5b5e74d1-26bd-4c52-b0e8-dece59085b30 2009-04-04T19:31:34Z 2009-04-04T19:31:34Z

Big Dave L on this I agree with you whole heartily.

Gordy 2009-04-04T19:31:34Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7b101e21-c6fb-465b-b7db-63b628bc55df 2009-04-04T19:26:41Z 2009-04-04T19:26:41Z

I've been holding off saying anything on this topic because I have both Indian and White families. But if anything good is to come from all this, we all need to just be respectful of our history. To tell people they are haters and such for "appropriating" cultures is just silly. Wearing a costume is not "appropriating" anything. IT’s clothing!! If you love your Indian roots, live them and rejoice. If you want to be close to your history, do it. But let people remember what history is .........HISTORY! We all need to come out of the "cultural closet" and stop trying to blame today’s children for their fore fathers pass crimes. Yes there were terrible things done and yes it is painful. But damn! If we are ever to move forward, we need to forgive and just make sure it doesn't happen again. But don't tell me I'm responsible for crimes of the past. Get a life. Today is a new day, embrace it. If I want to wear Indian adornments, that's my right(and yours). I see it as fashion. I have (tho never again) worn a suit and tie. Should my “white” ancestors tell my “Indian” ancestors that I’ve appropriated their suits?? Sounds stupid right? (I won’t even get into cowboy hats!) And as for Indian clothing, I can buy them any day of the week from Indians (and do). If I am disrespectful shame on me. But let's not go to the point of hate and fear. It serves no one. Teach truth to any who will listen. But to blame "burners" for anything like this, is also un-wise and perhaps a "race" based idea. Most burners are more than respectful of the cultural costumes they wear. I only hope we can all just lay down our hate and fear and move on. Peace & Harmony to ALL people. (I will NOT come back and debate this so don't bother……)

Big Dave 2009-04-04T19:26:41Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#69613f4b-70c7-47ae-8fb9-be5ba4e8de75 2009-04-04T04:22:53Z 2009-04-04T04:22:53Z

Oh, really, embers and sparks? When I put on a dark suit and thin tie with a white t-shirt and horn-rimmed sunglasses and try to sing "Rubber Biscuit", that doesn't mean I'm appropriating John Belushi's schtick? And YES, you're right. Only met a few gypsies in person, but lotsa Amish. T

Rhino 2009-04-04T04:22:53Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a131a0cd-4bd2-4fb3-abf4-1da5339dc2c4 2009-04-04T04:18:48Z 2009-04-04T04:16:03Z

Oh for fuck's sake. Dressing in historical, ethnic, traditional, or wacked-the-fuck out costume is NOT automatically "appropriation" by definition. It's dressing up. Appropriation, on the other hand, has everything to do with intent and mindfulness (or lack thereof). It's not appropriation if you understand what you're doing, do so with some sensitivity to the culture in question, and with some education and respect for what you're doing. If you have a solid sense of what you're doing and wearing, you're unlikely to adopt customs or dress that are offensive by nature to their originators. Oh and really... how many real live "gypsies" have you met in person? Sheesh.

embersandsparks 2009-04-04T04:16:03Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ea6b7e0e-adf9-4bfe-a65b-092415993d2c 2009-04-04T03:33:39Z 2009-04-04T03:33:39Z

Oh really. This can't be a permit stipulation, it's not against the laws of Nevada or the U.S. I'd say that the chances the llc putting in that sort of a ban are about equal with the chances of their dissolving themselves and letting people attend the event for free. Individuals and camps will do as they choose, and those who disagree will scream or educate according to their own wont.

Crypto 2009-04-04T03:33:39Z Kløne http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d9e641c2-2eb5-483b-b1ec-d4c9c909da87 2009-04-03T06:21:04Z 2009-04-03T06:21:04Z

Great questions scalefree (. I would also like to know how far this is going to go?

Kløne 2009-04-03T06:21:04Z scalefree http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#f7892380-69a2-4a2a-814a-b20470f4b6b4 2009-04-03T05:16:37Z 2009-04-03T05:16:37Z

So I know this whole crisis is over an unofficial event sponsored by a theme camp, but there are open questions as to how this affects the main Burn. Here's a couple off the top of my head. Are Native American costumes, theme camps & events to be officially banned from Burning Man? Should we start compiling a list of other oppressed cultures whose symbols we're not allowed to incorporate into our designs? How far down this path are we going to go?

scalefree 2009-04-03T05:16:37Z Bob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7da66d45-1250-4a89-84f2-67b7899b8299 2009-04-03T04:13:22Z 2009-04-03T04:13:22Z

Hillbillies.

Bob 2009-04-03T04:13:22Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b4965553-bfd6-49b1-b675-ff13d1a945ff 2009-04-03T04:02:38Z 2009-04-03T04:02:38Z

Sure it's appropriation. Some people do it because it's in their heritage. Others want to learn something new and interesting. Whatever the reason.

Rhino 2009-04-03T04:02:38Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ef46a1bf-8674-44f9-9714-c3828c3d409e 2009-04-03T03:22:19Z 2009-04-03T03:22:19Z

it's still appropriation. though no gypsy i've ever seen actually dresses like that.

automatthew 2009-04-03T03:22:19Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a17ccdad-ce99-4cf8-b9c6-312f2e270259 2009-04-03T03:12:34Z 2009-04-03T03:12:34Z

Crypto, this is actually a 'tribal bellydance' bazaar. This type of tribal gathering is not to be confused with gatherings of Native Americans, because it came out of tribal origins in the Middle East. Like maybe in Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Arabia, or even the twelve tribes of Israel. Not the same thing. But then, you knew that.

Rhino 2009-04-03T03:12:34Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b3468c81-8d4c-4ff9-8e49-d6de00d9b1dc 2009-04-02T23:31:28Z 2009-04-02T23:31:28Z

http://sanfrancisco.tribe.net/event/TRIBAL-BAZAAR/san-francisco-ca/7daaba3e-9664-48aa-bc14-c8d53ba98971

Crypto 2009-04-02T23:31:28Z hilly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#fe199208-a9bb-46c2-91c6-6531ede2f256 2009-04-02T23:25:31Z 2009-04-02T23:25:31Z

Iam: Your quote says: >>>>>Dixie and Hillary, you are TWO WHITE WOMEN who sat and listened and PARTICIPATED in a HIT JOB against us and against the ENTIRE BURNINGMAN COMMUNITY <<<<<<<< Ok, deep breath everybody. You are a good person and I admire your intentions. I honor your background. I do not tolerate being called names. I accept the fact that people identify me as white and that I experience white privilege, so I am not going to waste time clarifying my background to you. But to call me a participant on a hit of the entire Burning Man community??? Sssssss. Look, I have participated in Burning Man for five years now. I sewed all those gold and silver cushions for the Unity Dome in Temple Panthogensis last year, back when Visionary Village was still Entheon Village and we were co-creating some beautiful spaces. I blessed every cushion and every booty that sat on those cushions with my own personal good intent, and my own personal medicine. Maybe that is part of what brought us together, because I sent prayers that the good energy we are lucky and privileged to partake in as Burning Man participants would ripple out into the world. Now we share the task of stepping back and listening to other communities share what an appropriate use of that good energy and access to resources looks like instead of purely projecting our own visions as well as the gift of getting checked when we are being disrespectful. If you are going to say that being an ally to the Native community is a HIT on the entire Burning Man community, then I don't know what to say except for I don't agree with you and I pray that we all find comfort in confronting our own internalized socializations that prevent us from cracking the bars that imprison our understanding. Since when did 'solidarity with Burning man' mean keeping quiet? Don't attack me, attack offensiveness. You listed many forms of oppression Native communities face. May we work together to explore how to support communities that are resisting? I hope to speak with you in person to reach an understanding and to find a path towards undressing the multiple layers of oppression here that we can walk while questioning together. I am in this to heal, not to hurt. Please think before you say hurtful things. I agree to do the same. Love ALWAYS, Hillary

hilly 2009-04-02T23:25:31Z Iam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#713840d0-f967-485d-82dd-4c7028d98d7a 2009-04-02T22:02:23Z 2009-04-02T22:02:23Z

beautiful I'm sorry, hillary, for saying you participated in a hitjob. What was written in the East Bay Express was the hitjob. I recognize your efforts to mediate, however you did state that you could not "take our side" and that you "sided" with the natives. I see there are no sides. What I see was a community protecting their own interests which happen to be interests of issue for all Americans, Native AND non-Native. Why take sides? Why cannot we work together on this? My own father marched for civil rights in the 60's and to have our own rights challenged because of something written by someone who does not understand both sides of the story, or even willing to find out, is also a gross miscarriage of justice. Now through this process we have found out about the lack of water rights on the Navajo reservation. People living there have to fight for what is left after all their water is diverted to Phoenix so it can be used to water lawns and golf courses. THAT is the injury. THAT is the gross injustice. THAT is wrong, disgusting, and calls into question what else the government is up to under our noses. What else is going on that we don't know about? How do we let people know about THAT? I'm ready to bury the hatchet and work on solutions to these problems, WITH the Native Americans. Because at the end of the day, that's all we ever wanted to do in the first place.

Iam 2009-04-02T22:02:23Z hilly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#e270da5b-7b57-45ab-9b81-ef468f86dc55 2009-04-02T21:39:27Z 2009-04-02T21:39:27Z

BLACK ROCK SOLAR INSTALLING SOLAR ARRAY AT PAIUTE RESERVATION MEDICAL CLINIC Black Rock Solar is at it again, folks. Yep, Burning Man's spin-off nonprofit-come-Johnny Appleseed of free solar power is right now installing a 30kw solar array for the Pyramid Lake Paiute reservation's medical clinic. When you head to the playa, you'll be able to see it right there at the intersection of Routes 447 and 446. You can't miss it. As part of this effort, the Black Rock Solar team is helping two members of the Paiute tribe learnhow to become solar installers so they will be well-positioned to acquire green jobs, which are gonna be all the rage right soon here. More information: http://blackrocksolar.org

hilly 2009-04-02T21:39:27Z hilly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#2e0d7a9d-7fa5-45af-8d4c-28f7edb4c140 2009-04-02T21:35:59Z 2009-04-02T21:35:59Z

You DANCE. That is beautiful. Now let's FACE THE MUSIC. ------------------------------ "One of the things that white people who are striving to be anti-racist can do is to put their creative, community-building energies towards finding non-appropriative ways of getting beyond the boundaries of normal life." ----------------------------- I am hoping to do anti-oppression work and basic conciousness raising surrouding 'stuff white people do'and how it is perceived in different communities. I work to challenge racism in myself, in my communities, and in the world we all share. It isn't easy, but it's the right thing to do. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody, but I am saying that it's easy to forget about privilege when your band-aids match your skin and you don't even have to think about it. I called the dialogue the Friday before the event and tried to facilitate face-to-face interaction to further honesty and understanding. I have now been called a white accomplice to a "hit" on the Visionary Village Community by an individual in VV. Which is interesting considering I helped Visionary Village people out at Burning Man last year and was trying to help VV clarify their intention. But I also wanted VV to acknowledge the pain they had causesd the Native community through dishonest interactions and lack of respect for the Native community's completely legitimate feelings (as if anyone has the right to tell anyone else whether or not they have legitimate feelings, especially white folks). So now I am a hit-woman. That's new. I am always surprised when people who feel they don't need to participate in anti-oppression work but are the very people who probably need it most. I agree that new avenues of 'legitimatization' of cultural appropriation have been created in alternative spiritual largely-white communities such as Burning Man. However, I don't think we should immediately dismiss all of Burning Man as appropriative. I have attended Burning Man with people of color and don't want to have their presence and impact in this scene be forgotten or ignored just because it is largely white... Also, I have seen many spiritualities evolving that are unique to the playa community and a new way for people to relate to the world that may be very valuabe in preventing additional cases of appropriation. These experiences have helped people to become more compassionate, more respectful, and more accountable to their communities. I have seen this firsthand. I wonder where all of these people would go for spiritual inspiration if they didn't have Burning Man... I don't know, it's just interesting to think about. At the discussion Saturday night, many members of the Native community acknowledged the search of folks for a spirituality, of a quest for knowledge of our roots and divine inspiration and understanding to promote our common dreams of a better world. But I respect what they said after that: "Find your own." I would love to continue dialoging with others exploring this boundary. I think that awareness and conversation around appropriation in this community is essential to promoting positive growth in communities without stealing from or disrespecting others. I think a lot of the BM community hasn't challenged themselves around issues of privilege and this is apparent in the many blogs and emails surrounding this event. I see many possible interactions between these groups that could be so beautiful and mutually supportive. However, none of these will happen if the group with all the privilege doesn't reality check by learning how to be allies and how to show respect. You gotta give it to get it.

hilly 2009-04-02T21:35:59Z Kløne http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#cb12cbc0-f4b8-4584-8971-e12aafdf8dee 2009-04-02T07:43:11Z 2009-04-02T07:43:11Z

Yeah we are talking about "ley line klone" crypto. How was what I said so unenlightened? Did I make any racist remarks? NO I didn't. I simply think that this whole thing is ridiculous. And I also think that visionary village had no racist intentions with this event. Now go ahead and quote an encyclopedia or something and try to make yourself sound smart. Your really good at that crypto.

Kløne 2009-04-02T07:43:11Z dr.placebo http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d76a3ca4-3c34-499d-9153-e62d39a9dbf3 2009-04-02T06:09:07Z 2009-04-02T06:09:07Z

Bravo, Iam! Political correctness gone amok, creating a wedge between people who should stand united. It is easy to see why some viewed the party invite as offensive. It is less easy to understand why it gets more attention than the very real problems that plague all of us, and that are particularly harsh for the economically deprived. Yes, we are all in this together. And we need to start acting that way.

dr.placebo 2009-04-02T06:09:07Z Iam http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ff73ed9b-a638-4bb1-a1a5-0677e6b5b9dd 2009-04-02T04:58:29Z 2009-04-02T04:58:29Z

OK peoples listen up I am the one who designed the flyer for the event "Go Native" and was one of the organizers I will say this once and once only It's very easy to spread hate and malcontent without knowing ANYTHING about the subject being written I AM OF NATIVE/AFRICAN/ASIAN and WHITE DESCENT Call me a racist for using imagery from a culture which I BELONG TO You can call us dirty hippies, stupid ravers, or whatever you want All we want to do is to DANCE We DANCE for PEACE We DANCE for COMMUNITY We DANCE for the LOVE of the PLANET We DANCE for UNITY I have been a DJ for over 12 years and I have been to many festivals and gatherings in my life If you have never experienced one of these gatherings you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT By slandering our community you slander a VERY large community of people I have lived my life with feet in many different worlds, so I draw upon those experiences to help forge a new experience If you want to be a HATER and FLAME people for doing the work that must be done on this planet, then you will live and die in HATE Try LOVE once in a while for a change We have been SLANDERED in the East Bay Express We have been issued DEATH THREATS by haters who know NOTHING about the work that we do We have been called RACIST and WORSE by those who do not understand what they are talking about The fact is that we listened to the Native American Community and CANCELLED our event out of RESPECT for their wishes OF OUR OWN ACCORD and lost money in the process Mark Anquoe's message at the top of this thread made us out to look like KLANSMEN who were going to happily dance on the graves of Indigenous people We have now been issued a FORMAL APOLOGY from the National Congress of American Indians who have assured us that what we did was not offensive What is OFFENSIVE is the fact that 200,000 Navajos cannot access water which flows underneath their very lands because the US Government will not ALLOW THEM BASIC WATER RIGHTS What is OFFENSIVE is the fact that a Sovereign nation cannot be allowed to grow hemp on THEIR OWN LANDS in order to support their peoples What is OFFENSIVE is the fact that if you have Indigenous blood, you are subject to more than 2000 laws than WHITE people All we wanted to do was to raise money for a cause that we resonated with, and now WE are the bad guys? FOR WANTING TO HELP INDIGENOUS PEOPLE? WTF??? What PLANET do you people LIVE ON? PLANET WINGNUTTIA? Dixie and Hillary, you are TWO WHITE WOMEN who sat and listened and PARTICIPATED in a HIT JOB against us and against the ENTIRE BURNINGMAN COMMUNITY Mark Anquoe, you call yourself a warrior? Do you not realize that YOUR actions have started this war? A TRUE warrior KNOWS when to take up arms and when to lay them down for peace. A TRUE warrior KNOWS the difference between ENEMY and FRIEND As a PERSON OF COLOUR, I AM OFFENDED BY THIS You want righteous indignation? YOU GOT IT! You want a WAR? Well let's FIGHT against what REALLY MATTERS, the fact that Indigenous people in the United States of America do NOT even have BASIC CIVIL RIGHTS FIGHT THE POWER, FIGHT THE MAN But let's not FIGHT amongst ourselves! I have spoken

Iam 2009-04-02T04:58:29Z Saffron http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#8b10b910-fd89-40a4-9cb5-20eecf9c513f 2009-04-02T03:47:56Z 2009-04-02T03:47:56Z

Are there any Aboriginal Americans on this thread? Or is this just a bunch of white people discussing this?

Saffron 2009-04-02T03:47:56Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#5f443f80-5680-42b6-8e6b-81aa33001c97 2009-04-01T23:31:22Z 2009-04-01T23:31:22Z

Hey, at least they spelled your name right. Sorta. I think.

embersandsparks 2009-04-01T23:31:22Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#c59aed3e-5c6c-4975-976f-768a98baf91f 2009-04-01T22:22:42Z 2009-04-01T22:22:42Z

>>>>And are we talking about "Ley Line Klone"? Because I don't see how he could be so unenlightened. <<<<< Meh,one man's enlightenment is another man's crazytalk these days. I went and corrected the attribution of the quote in the comments section. KLONE138 can take the credit or not, as he sees fit. Thanks for the heads up though! I really hate lazy journalism.

Elaine~ 2009-04-01T22:22:42Z gabriel http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#005a3057-7379-4a21-ba51-c0887724dd3a 2009-04-01T22:18:53Z 2009-04-01T22:18:53Z

1-This has absolutly NOTHING to do with Burningman. 2-A culture does not belong to anyone,even desendents of its originators. 3-The whole premiss of the party sucked. 4-The organizers should have had more informed people advising them. 5-Reading the indie thread,there were huge overreations from a couple of posters. 6-Forcing a group of ravers to cancel a party(planned,as poorly as it was,in the name of indiginous peoples),does nothing to preserve a culture. Let the flames begin...

gabriel 2009-04-01T22:18:53Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#8e0c024d-e36a-41cf-8cb3-7e535bf40c7b 2009-04-01T21:54:56Z 2009-04-01T21:54:56Z

why isn't this party splattered with donkey semen? perhaps we can reach some sort of compromise. i don't want to go so far as to soak the party in the menstrual blood of a 13-year-old girl, as some have demanded, but i'm open to other suggestions. we might be able to scare up a pint or two of rhino vomit to splash around the warehouse. and I know candied yams can be mashed into a nice, viscous paste and spread pretty easily. personally, i like the party as it is, but if a little shock is all it takes to calm everybody down, i'm all for it!

automatthew 2009-04-01T21:54:56Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#48f914de-ba43-4d90-acf8-dc4a2b843b46 2009-04-01T21:50:32Z 2009-04-01T21:50:32Z

this is the real travesty right here... http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28377

automatthew 2009-04-01T21:50:32Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a59da63c-11a6-4f5a-8694-6caa718e4857 2009-04-01T21:47:43Z 2009-04-01T21:47:43Z

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<this thread's least enlightend post>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a contest or something? Cause some of the people in this tribe could really rock it. And are we talking about "Ley Line Klone"? Because I don't see how he could be so unenlightened.

Crypto 2009-04-01T21:47:43Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#da76cf66-fcfe-4ba8-b3e6-01cd47370977 2009-04-01T21:45:17Z 2009-04-01T21:45:17Z

personally i think we need more of this kind of thing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1gTtTh6oX8

automatthew 2009-04-01T21:45:17Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d3271f24-9ddd-4f54-9861-47fe5a7d754c 2009-04-01T21:40:22Z 2009-04-01T21:40:22Z

>>Looks like you're famous, Elaine. www.eastbayexpress.com/music/...Content Unfortunately, it's due to the misattribution of this thread's least enlightend post to you. << Yay me. No, actually Klone123 said that. I kind of thissed it. But I took his comment to mean a bit differently than others did.

Elaine~ 2009-04-01T21:40:22Z Bobzilla http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6ded1534-b569-46a1-a709-9cd2db728619 2009-04-01T21:28:23Z 2009-04-01T21:28:23Z

All the cool kids were at NIMBY last Saturday anyway.

Bobzilla 2009-04-01T21:28:23Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#97f7028c-635a-4902-aaf1-c5cbebbe7ebe 2009-04-01T21:10:06Z 2009-04-01T21:10:06Z

especially since the supposed "research" this was supposed to be a fundraiser for is such complete bullshit.

automatthew 2009-04-01T21:10:06Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#5c4a2c37-028d-4189-8885-3bb25c039178 2009-04-01T21:09:01Z 2009-04-01T21:09:01Z

though personally i find it hilarious that all these dim-light hippies are actually getting called out on their appropriative hypocrisy.

automatthew 2009-04-01T21:09:01Z automatthew http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#be168605-9301-4804-9259-7c09be5234c0 2009-04-01T20:59:32Z 2009-04-01T20:59:32Z

i don't have any particular respect for anyone's religion, whether they've been the victims of genocide or not.

automatthew 2009-04-01T20:59:32Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#df1594e6-2ad3-42f2-88f4-9b75482c35ce 2009-04-01T20:55:30Z 2009-04-01T20:55:30Z

I misspelled "cultural" and used "do" for "due."

Crypto 2009-04-01T20:55:30Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d33d790c-4d48-4eb5-af0b-800464015301 2009-04-01T20:52:27Z 2009-04-01T20:52:27Z

Culteral Appropriation is always a dicey problem. And we all know that we're on BLM land near a reservation, not on one. And I think that it would be hysterical to see that Catholic Revisionist event. Catholics are so damn whacked. For what it's worth, I'm likelier to respect Native Spirituality than Catholic Spirituality. Maybe I should start a theme camp: That Wacky Pope.

Crypto 2009-04-01T20:52:27Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#d61bd693-25c2-4ed5-9e98-9347332af9da 2009-04-01T20:43:44Z 2009-04-01T20:43:44Z

Looks like you're famous, Elaine. http://www.eastbayexpress.com/music/burners_torched_over_native_party/Content?oid=954007 Unfortunately, it's due to the misattribution of this thread's least enlightend post to you.

embersandsparks 2009-04-01T20:43:44Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#652aea77-c7dc-4ee1-a604-3c3c953034a4 2009-03-31T21:56:04Z 2009-03-31T21:56:04Z

<.............as we face each other as we are, now> As I am now? I'm hungry..... mmmmmm bacon........

Big Dave 2009-03-31T21:56:04Z sulevay http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6c9d7d4e-bc68-43b0-824b-f46237e06def 2009-03-31T17:18:00Z 2009-03-31T17:18:00Z

>One of the problems that the current US majority culture has is that it is blindly accretive. We latch onto cultural ideas and artifacts without understanding their relevance or history. But let's recognize that the root of the problem is not that we take things in, but rather that we do so without honoring their origins. The reason to not appropriate another's culture is respect. The reason to not hurl indiscriminate charges of racism is respect. We could use more respect all around. < i have a slightly different view. while america's melting pot largely operates blindly, the mechanism itself is what keeps the resulting "american" culture lively, fluid, and changing. and it happens in the reverse direction too; just look at how many english words other languages have adopted, just as english soaks up foreign ones. not always graceful, but i think it's inevitable.....as it's the nature of life to always knit together what is at hand, digesting and creating anew from that stew. EVERYthing is in constant flux, so while we certainly grieve the inexorable loss of species, cultures and identities, what matters on a human level is the dialog that ensues as we face each other as we are, now.

sulevay 2009-03-31T17:18:00Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a09a5055-b367-433d-8234-b8591eb63bfa 2009-03-31T16:32:48Z 2009-03-31T16:32:48Z

Well put, dr. p. I find myself continueing to be torn. Yeah, lots fof people have been pretty clueless. Teaching is better in a calm voice, with compassion for the misguided. Anger pretty much gets people on the defensive. You might also want to give some thought to lame humor as a tool of dealing with the akwardness and displacement and discomfort of not really having a good idea of how to behave. And if pain means you should never be the butt of a joke, then I better go yell at myself and call myself ablist, because I'm on my back all the time for that.

Crypto 2009-03-31T16:32:48Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6f92f807-4f59-43cb-9ba3-79abfd89a533 2009-03-31T16:27:06Z 2009-03-31T16:27:06Z

<...the peoples whose land that Burning Man is on, is getting word of all this! > Um, I've known for years, 2002 or earlier.

Crypto 2009-03-31T16:27:06Z .lady. http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#98368b89-03f3-4512-9ab4-c9870cd488be 2009-03-30T22:34:08Z 2009-03-30T22:34:08Z

"I can think of little more obnoxious than a bunch of whities telling members of groups that have been horribly oppressed by white people for centuries what they are or are not allowed to be offended by." --a very non-religious AMEN TO THAT.

.lady. 2009-03-30T22:34:08Z dr.placebo http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7e27e7e0-4461-4b6a-a56c-d6f9f6c986d4 2009-03-30T22:08:25Z 2009-03-30T22:08:25Z

One of the problems that the current US majority culture has is that it is blindly accretive. We latch onto cultural ideas and artifacts without understanding their relevance or history. But let's recognize that the root of the problem is not that we take things in, but rather that we do so without honoring their origins. The reason to not appropriate another's culture is respect. The reason to not hurl indiscriminate charges of racism is respect. We could use more respect all around.

dr.placebo 2009-03-30T22:08:25Z Kamikaze http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#03eda057-ce6b-441e-9301-907aa3650de5 2009-03-30T20:22:22Z 2009-03-30T20:22:22Z

Damn Rule of Law! *kicks rocks wandering off Thread* **smiles, picks up rocks and Googles 2012 Threads** KK

Kamikaze 2009-03-30T20:22:22Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#145e2ffa-87ad-40c3-b171-8e6781134461 2009-03-30T20:15:27Z 2009-03-30T20:15:27Z

> that doesn't give anyone the right to yell "racism" whenever a culture is *referenced*... Bzzt. Sorry, but the first amendment to the US Constitution says precisely the opposite. You can yell just about anything your little heart desires (apart from "FIRE" in a crowded theater), and you have just as much right to blithely ignore anyone else's yelling. But you don't get to grant or revoke anyone else's "right" to their opinion, or to voice it.

embersandsparks 2009-03-30T20:15:27Z Rob http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#8869f972-fcc8-40ff-b4ab-a3b865d60e9c 2009-03-30T17:37:36Z 2009-03-30T17:37:36Z

"tides 2012 minds" reference to the Mayan doomsday prophesy? http://www.survive2012.com/ (By the way, the Rob mentioned, is not yours truly)

Rob 2009-03-30T17:37:36Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ffcf18e1-61cb-493d-984e-77aa8950d5e4 2009-03-30T16:55:59Z 2009-03-30T16:55:59Z

Deep........

Big Dave 2009-03-30T16:55:59Z Chlorophil http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6b72a82e-1aa7-47fb-826c-0660c573377f 2009-03-30T07:45:53Z 2009-03-30T07:45:38Z

casino anyone? buffalo wings at pizza hut, cleveland indians , columbus day, thanksgiving, little cowboy/indian plastic toy soldiers at walmart, movies, music, without it, we wouldnt know about it, with it we are, and people are making money off it not in honor of it but for fortune, just leave it all the norm since thats how it was since i was born??????? or is it too big and cant do nothing about it, at least u can commnicate with us, and not being pointed the finger to the right appropiation for your concern! dont ruin this for all of u, tuskan raiders dontall act the same do they, i represent myself, my actions represent me and i dont point the finger for my actions, you cant assume that every japanese/vietnamese person thinks the way i do! u dont know how it feels to be ashamed of the flag the represents you!! i cant relate, not in my cognitive state. the money is the illusion its unnatural twist of the norm. birds get the early worm as we hit the snooze for our cycle that sends us in circles, its an unnatural way to live. its not real to be this way. as a butterfly flaps it wings to gather its grasp of flight to set a silent drift across the shift, as a car passes u by to feel the current drift of air across ur face, across the states across the sky, 10 mph faster set to 65, hurricanes balance as cars constant morning shift, as butterflys cause a stir cars create more inertia, sunlight covered by a rainforest cut down within the last decade to set a dry, warm energy arises a new where cool air was once when causes a shift! ionosphere microwaves brains cancer earth gaia, balance moon sun, tides 2012 minds dreams concscious streams reality collides past present futre stars in the sky 5 years ago high. light fastest flight.

Chlorophil 2009-03-30T07:45:38Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#edec96ae-263b-4f4f-82a0-0d5492a56126 2009-03-30T03:06:00Z 2009-03-30T03:06:00Z

The post on this thread that I deleted was deleted at the request of the poster.....Kamikaze Kelly. Just in case anybody wonders.

Rhino 2009-03-30T03:06:00Z Kamikaze http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#e1917bb1-649c-4e38-8cc2-4114a1a821e1 2009-03-30T02:52:41Z 2009-03-30T02:20:21Z

Agenda's, Politics, Religion. This is not the Community that I have tried to build. KK

Kamikaze 2009-03-30T02:20:21Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ecf68237-50c2-427f-9d32-92c4632cc93b 2009-03-30T02:34:03Z 2009-03-30T02:34:03Z

And we love you because of this...........

Big Dave 2009-03-30T02:34:03Z Kløne http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ac215a3b-3a15-44da-98bf-3c99dfbcdbf2 2009-03-30T02:00:28Z 2009-03-30T02:00:28Z

"Well if you believe in evolution, which I do, we are all African- Americans:) " Yeah word! I'm sick of whitey holding me down.

Kløne 2009-03-30T02:00:28Z Polly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7802773f-71b9-4dea-a3f4-bd79a973db5e 2009-03-29T20:49:05Z 2009-03-29T16:55:38Z

I am absolutely appalled, sickened, and disappointed by the ignorance displayed in these posts, most notably Elaine's. THE AUDACITY to make a mockery of the pain that is being inflicted and impact that this event and subsequent emails and posts are having on REAL LIVE people reading this! THIS is your response to the previous posts? Have you no shame or dignity? I've been in the face to face negotiations between the event planners, the party goers, and the Native American community members and this total lack of cultural sensitivity and basic respect REALLY IS impacting people. This thread has and is being circulated far beyond tribe.net. It is imperative that we address the blatant racism and in general these issues 'in the community' as they arise and not let them go unchallenged. Our silence also speaks volumes. By the way, the peoples whose land that Burning Man is on, is getting word of all this! This is NOT to be taken lightly!

Polly 2009-03-29T16:55:38Z Gordy http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#c31b7b06-3b38-407d-b572-5ccd052da5ef 2009-03-29T20:46:35Z 2009-03-29T20:46:35Z

Well if you believe in evolution, which I do, we are all African- Americans:)

Gordy 2009-03-29T20:46:35Z Big Dave http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#cef8da5e-5a94-43af-a47f-8533a6361d87 2009-03-29T20:29:10Z 2009-03-29T20:29:10Z

Seems like the "principals" are talking and moving forward. My family has mixed blood and I feel it when "we" start throwing any kind of hate around. One would think in 2009 that "we" could move on from labeling others. No one "group" is pure and blameless. Can we "just get along". Haters and Cynic's do us all wrong. Find someone NOT like you and love them. Pray for Peace & Harmony bdl (once a hippie always a hippie)

Big Dave 2009-03-29T20:29:10Z Gordy http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#eaaaed32-dc23-4444-980a-2013cd091bb9 2009-03-29T20:18:38Z 2009-03-29T20:18:38Z

So because a few people posted in this thread some thing you disagree upon, you are going to try to have the burn stopped? BTW it is my understanding that the Burn is held on BLM land not tribal. So you are holding the current generation of whites responsible for what was done over 5 generations ago. What about the whites who got here after the 1900? The Indians wars ended a before then, in the late 1800's. What about the ones coming here now? My wife's people got here about 1930, does she share the guilt? Mine, on the other hand were here before the USA, what is my share of the guilt? My ancestors were driven off their tribal lands as well, does that mean people living in Rome should feel guilty and try to make it up to me? At what point do we quit fighting wars that ended 100s if not thousands of years ago? They're killing each other in the mideast over shit that happened 2000 years ago. When are we going to realize that people are people? To use blanket statements like, all white, all Jews, all blacks, all what ever, is racist. To hold me responible for things that happened a 100 years before I was born is a little silly. It is good that the native Ameriacians are celebrating their culture and that they take pride in it.. They lost a lot a over time, but, you know what? They were just as warlike as every other race. They conquered each others lands and wiped out whole tribes before the whites got here. And the spanish were a lot worse then the northern Europeans. You will probably call me a racist for what I just wrote, but it seems to me we should judge people by what they do today, not by what their great great great grandfathers did back in the day. It will never end if we just keep going back farther and farther into time to find ways to pigeon hole people. Btw my ancestors were Irish, the wetbacks of the 1800s, so what does England owe me? Will it be cash, US$ only none of the pound crap:)

Gordy 2009-03-29T20:18:38Z dixie http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#2217f8f1-61a0-43a5-8ebf-35e01891a42b 2009-03-29T18:43:38Z 2009-03-29T18:43:38Z

'POLLY'S POST IS ACTUALLY DIXIE'S POST! MY MISTAKE, I meant to sign it under MY name/profile, but because tribe.net moves slow sometimes, it did not sign her out and when I posted it. Oops... I am absolutely appalled, sickened, and disappointed by the ignorance displayed in these posts, most notably Elaine's. THE AUDACITY to make a mockery of the pain that is being inflicted and impact that this event and subsequent emails and posts are having on REAL LIVE people reading this! THIS is your response to the previous posts? Have you no shame or dignity? I've been in the face to face negotiations between the event planners, the party goers, and the Native American community members and this total lack of cultural sensitivity and basic respect REALLY IS impacting people. This thread has and is being circulated far beyond tribe.net. It is imperative that we address the blatant racism and in general these issues 'in the community' as they arise and not let them go unchallenged. Our silence also speaks volumes. By the way, the peoples whose land that Burning Man is on, is getting word of all this! This is NOT to be taken lightly!

dixie 2009-03-29T18:43:38Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#34f8addb-d4b2-45fd-a760-a1ffea35793f 2009-03-29T18:40:27Z 2009-03-29T18:40:27Z

Actually, let me reinstate my opinion. I thought there was some serious overreacting going on to what really looked like a huge non malicious mistake made on the part of the fundraiser people. Overreacting in the shrill hysterical OMG OMG way some people often take on, especially on internet forums and comment boards, fox news, the local news, church, PTA meetings,ect. This is pretty much the subject I commented and I am far from alone in my opinion. However, it looks to be the fund raisers people and the AIM people settled it all up so there ya go. Cool. And for the record, yeah, I do agree the Native American people have certainly been treated badly by the government and society in our past and present. Very much so. Everybody read that? Good, kindly make a note of it. I also made a joke , albeit a lame joke, at the comment someone made calling the dissenters "whities'. I personally have always found the term "whitie" hilarious, the hypocrisy of someone using a racist term to yell at people for being "racist" was enjoyable to me on many layers. I like irony or whatever you call it. So yeah, if your panties are that much in bunch because some chick on an internet board had the gall to state her own personal not actually racistish opinion that disagrees with yours, well, I will say get yourself some of those not creep up panties then. And sorry you feel that way. Also feel free to PM me and we can discuss it further. I would be glad to clear up any misconceptions you may have about me. I have to wonder if your misconceptions are made on the fact that I am a blonde rosey hued chick? But the whole" OMG RACIST whargarbl" make me think you just want the attention of being outraged. But for the most part, I am bored with this thread and bored with the subject. I got seedlings to start and laundry soap to make. So there ya go, I am not so much racist, more just not reverent nor cowed by having a slightly dissenting opinion than many of the more vocal others in this group.

Elaine~ 2009-03-29T18:40:27Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#853817fd-64ae-4419-bfc4-2e3e01b3e072 2009-03-29T03:52:29Z 2009-03-29T03:52:29Z

sometimes a thread needs a little lightening up. People can be as upset about something as they wanna be, or not. Me, I find the lighter side of every situation and and go with it. Not everything needs to all hate, name calling and outrage all the fucking time.

Elaine~ 2009-03-29T03:52:29Z ~M http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b3fc9796-de19-45e9-b289-067b7225f47c 2009-03-29T03:31:29Z 2009-03-29T03:31:29Z

GOOD. I know the Native American Community is reading this thread so I feel compelled to say something. Tribe.net is NOT a valid representation of the Burning Man Community. Tribe.net is nearly a dead social network. Most people have left it about 6 months ago at least. What is on here is mostly (I'm generalizing so don't get all huffy Tribe people) people who flame each other, argue, say hurtful things and jump to conclusions in these threads. I am ashamed at the lack of sensitivity and racism in this thread and as a member of the Burning Man Community DO NOT HOLD THESE OPINIONS, nor do my friends or colleagues.

~M 2009-03-29T03:31:29Z Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#30a9c485-9501-4a50-96d9-f143835565fc 2009-03-29T02:43:31Z 2009-03-29T02:43:31Z

haha you are so funny. NOT. when exactly were "your people" killed by the millions, when exactly was "your people's "history not taught in schools even to school that were created just for "your people". when exactly were "your people" sold by the millions. Privilege, you haz it and ignorance, you rolling in it.

Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio 2009-03-29T02:43:31Z Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b5960458-ce47-497b-981e-c53d00205954 2009-03-29T02:39:42Z 2009-03-29T02:39:42Z

damn I'm pissed I voted for you to be a mod.

Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio 2009-03-29T02:39:42Z Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#67df428e-4ef7-4492-a790-a23d09b19c93 2009-03-29T02:38:24Z 2009-03-29T02:38:24Z

this is great example of someone who wasn't even in involved in the event trying to defend the behavior because it attacks their privilege. thanks.

Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio 2009-03-29T02:38:24Z Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ab5b725f-48c6-4db3-ae87-8bdfe5691702 2009-03-29T02:36:59Z 2009-03-29T02:36:59Z

what a great response. I'm happy that instead of getting into the defensive mode of "we can be racist, culturely insensitive etc because we mean well, they took responsibility and are making restitution.

Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio 2009-03-29T02:36:59Z Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#51336c6b-690e-446f-bb06-5efbbac48a1d 2009-03-29T02:33:14Z 2009-03-29T02:33:14Z

actually no racism can be totally based on ignorance especially willful ignorance. It's called cultural appropriation and it's way for people to get some identity without having to actually look at who they actually are and the privilege they have. Their heart is not in the right place when they take other people's religions and practices and make a joke out of them to make themselves feel spiritual. If their heart was in the "right" place they can create their own rituals and spirituality even use that as inspiration but don't claim an affiliation that you don't have. That said Burning man itself is a place where I try to turn off my culture appropriation meter off or my head would be ringing 24/7. racism, sexism, discrimation, homophobia and cluelessness of every kind is out there just like it is in the world where the attendees are coming from.

Theo/Turtle at Camp Stella 7:45 and Bio 2009-03-29T02:33:14Z gigi http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b7be21f3-6cdf-4c3d-bbbf-6294e108d747 2009-03-29T01:35:34Z 2009-03-29T01:35:34Z

Beautiful and eloquent words, Dixie. Thank you. Here is the latest news: Creating a new relationship with our Native brothers and sisters The following is from the producers of the event: Due to the controversy surrounding the GO NATIVE dance party scheduled for 3/28 (tonight), the event has been dramatically altered. The Visionary Village has signed a petition created by the Native American community to change the event into a quiet, spiritual healing gathering between members of the Native American Community and the Visionary Village communities. If you would like to participate in this quieter, more solemn event, and facilitate a healing, or if you are interested in becoming a member of the Visionary Village spiritual community, please join us. All Visionary Village members, and those who are interested in joining the village are welcome to attend. This will be a smaller, quiet gathering, without amplified dance music. The event is a call for people to stand fast and proud in their own native tradition while embracing the world around them as if it were their own. Please feel free to email us any further suggestions, bring food to share or come join us to hold space for education and transformation of all ignorance into integrity. The Visionary Village +++++ Yesterday, Visionary Village leaders met with several dozen members of the Native American community at the Inter-Tribal Friendship House and announced that they were considering canceling the event outright. The silence and thunderous applaud clearly indicated the Native American community's joy that Visionary Village would consider cancelling an event with 20+ scheduled DJs and performers. Ultimately both parties agreed to hold a different kind of gathering -- a quiet, spiritual healing, without music, without theme costumes or glitz -- as we build the bridges necessary for healing, understanding, education and growth in our greater community. The text of that petition is below, followed by a whole-hearted agreement with even more suggestions for how this can be event can be a celebration for all to cherish their unique heritage, and how we can begin to erase the boundaries of culture and race and remember that we are all One on this Earth. We all recognize the grave pain and turmoil Native Americans continue to endure through cultural appropriation, and are sad that some of us, (and thereby, as an organization, all of us,) innocently and unwittingly contributed to that ongoing pain. Actions thus far include: + Removing all tribal affiliations from promotional material + Posting clarifications and apologies on every public forum where this discussion was taking place. + Signing the petition calling for changes to the event. + Removing all imagery of iconographic Native American symbols. + Pursuing the validation for claims of NAC chartership by the individuals who approached us, and whom we have worked with before, prior to any distribution of funds. + Declaring that in the event of a fraudulent NAC claim, all proceeds from our private gathering would go to a 501(c)3 of the Bay Area Native American community's choice, such as Save Our Tribal Youth, or Native American Health Care Advocacy. + Withdrawing the request that people arrive in native costume. Issuing a statement that every individual has a rich enough heritage of their own that they do not need to appropriate their neighbor's heritage. + Forged a commitment to work in concert with the Bay Area Native American community on all future events which may include anything remotely thematic. (For example, holding fundraisers for Tribal Youth or the campaign to reclaim Native American remains fro museums.) + Holding a public forum. + Inviting all interested and injured parties to join us in preparation of the private gathering tomorrow, so as to both ensure a conscious event of sufficient integrity transpires, and to join in the larger celebration of all cherishing our unique heritage. + Amending the Visionary Village website to reflect these changes. + Personally contacting each person who provides a phone number so as to apologize, and thank them for helping navigate us through this profound learning period. ++++

gigi 2009-03-29T01:35:34Z gigi http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#8da420d2-5575-4874-8449-13537d3613cb 2009-03-29T01:32:26Z 2009-03-29T01:32:26Z

Thank you Rhino. Charity does begin at home. Or as Ghandi said, "We must be the change we want to see in the world." I do feel that the situation became overblown (with the fire fanned by the searing flame mail and the light speed of the Internet) but so much good is coming of this. I see this as an outstanding opportunity for the Burning Man and "Neo Tribal" community to finally wake up and stop partying in such a self-centered and irresponsible way. Yes, it's easy for us to fundraise for "Native American medicine research" but much more difficult for us to think about fundraising for the very real ills that plague our society, such as poverty, homelessness, repression and healthcare. This was a real wake up call to me, personally, to be much more alert, sensitive and attentive when I adopt the sacred icons of another culture into my own gatherings, art or music. I think that that this is also a wake up time for this community to WALK OUR TALK and start giving back. Instead of LEAVE NO TRACE (creating temporary communities and tearing or burning them down), it's time for us to make a mark and LEAVE A TRACE--by creating lasting and positive change. I think our consciousness is finally starting to shift out of self indulgence and I applaud our Native brothers and sisters for waking us up to how we are viewed by the outside world. (As self indulgent, self serving and often insensitive in the ways we approrpiate the culture and spiritual iconography of cultures other than our own.) Wouldn't I, born and raised Roman Catholic, find it a bit strange if Native Americans held a dance with Native music mixed with pipe organs and Latin chanting, sat in church pews that they decorated with blinky lights, wore rosaries, burned Mary candles at a rave while doing psychedelics, and printed out invitations with a big picture of Jesus at the cross? It would seem tasteless, and perhaps even insensitive. While we think we're honoring and adoring other cultures and don't intend to be desecrating them when we mix and match them into our own, it can seem this way--especially when we only want to take the "fun" parts, (the flutes, the feathers, the drums) and don't want to deal with the grim reality of dealing with genuine social problems.

gigi 2009-03-29T01:32:26Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#f3367638-34b6-428f-91a6-448f8d23d271 2009-03-29T00:51:04Z 2009-03-29T00:51:04Z

BTW, regarding some of the posts on this thread, I can think of little more obnoxious than a bunch of whities telling members of groups that have been horribly oppressed by white people for centuries what they are or are not allowed to be offended by.<<< I am offended by your use of "whitie." My people are of a rosy pink and golden hue and nothing like those chalky white people of the far north. My people demand reparations immediately in the form of fermented barley water , stone milled microbaked crackers with some nice stinky cheese.

Elaine~ 2009-03-29T00:51:04Z janeO http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#069e3e46-b4b6-4a3e-b1f2-0ccacf454a30 2009-03-28T23:33:15Z 2009-03-28T23:33:15Z

from a blast e-mail from one of the DJ's TONITE'S EVENT AT THE BORDELLO IS CANCELLED. The following is from the producers of the event: "Because of the recent turmoil surrounding this event and promotions done on its behalf, the Visionary Village has signed a petition created by the Native American community to alter the event. We added our own increased suggestions, signed and enacted the agreement. Afterward, we met with several dozen members of AIM West and the Native American community at the interfriendship house and informed them we were still considering canceling the event outright. The silence and thunderous applaud clearly indicated their joy that we would consider it. We agreed to cancel the event and will be present with hundreds of Native Americans at the Bordello supporting and ensuring our decision. There will be no music at this private gathering of Villagers and Native Americans as we build the bridges necessary for healing, education and growth in our greater community."

janeO 2009-03-28T23:33:15Z Crypto http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#3fe776c8-894a-411c-b378-1ceb4b95151e 2009-03-28T22:52:16Z 2009-03-28T22:52:16Z

Oh, I think that changing the names of teams is the way to go. I wonder if we will ever see the day when "Squaw Valley" gets a name change, probably to a native name for the area. But I don't think that it's because they are oppressed. I think because we should treat them with respect. I didn't read everything or even much of the original post, because, in fact, it was that over the top horrors of the world (although to give the people who use that rhetorical strategy their do, my voice gets shrill and my choice of words gets melodramatic when I think people aren't listening to something important.) However, you seem a little clueless as well. So, is anyone else reminded of that Simpsons line: "We're holding a benifit concert for the victims of tonight's benefit concert"?

Crypto 2009-03-28T22:52:16Z Tubbo http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#fb10fed4-6d53-471e-ad60-30c34e91bc4c 2009-03-28T22:43:48Z 2009-03-28T22:43:48Z

maybe they should sue the makers of the minimal house song "Pueblo" for being racist against Pueblo indians. this is the same shit as "CHANGE THE REDSKINS/INDIANS SPORTS TEAM NAMES BECAUSE WE'RE OPPRESSED" i feel bad because out of all the races who cry racism, the native americans definitely got it the worst. but that doesn't give anyone the right to yell "racism" whenever a culture is *referenced*...

Tubbo 2009-03-28T22:43:48Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#3ac03ea9-bf01-4066-a266-56e16e870714 2009-03-28T21:12:55Z 2009-03-28T21:12:55Z

> Dude, don't kiss anymore ass! You did nothing wrong in the first place. This whole thing is blown completely out of context and out of control. The public apologies shouldn't have to be made. Its not like the theme camp was screaming some Michael 'Kramer' Richard shit at the tribe. Sorry this is just ridiculous. Right. Because after centuries of taking your lives, land, children, and way of life from you with absolute impunity, why should we have to listen to you complain when we blithely appropriate your very identity? I mean, you couldn't possibly have any self-respect left, could you? And people wonder why the descendants of European colonists still seem so ambivalent, if not outright cruel. It might be appropriate here to note that BRD borders the present-day land of the Western Shoshone and Paiute people, who are therefore BM's neighbors. American Indians are not some bygone race, whose culture is now up for grabs. They remain a diverse and vibrant culture that deserves our respect and an enormous amount of deference and humility. You live on the west coast of a continent that was already occupied when your forefathers arrived. Yet you are here. How do you think that happened without THEIR families having to make way for yours? I hope some of this makes it easier to take a moment to try to relate, rather than shrugging it off as "not my problem". Dude. It's not kissing ass to stand up and take criticism like an adult, and attempt respond to it constructively. It's a sign of maturity and compassion. On the other hand, if I should ever accidentally commit some heinous crime, I sure hope to see you in the black robe when I walk into court.

embersandsparks 2009-03-28T21:12:55Z hilly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#4d9507cd-2ac0-4c12-b3fc-23ee47362e08 2009-03-28T20:30:22Z 2009-03-28T20:30:22Z

EEEEERRT. Hey Everybody, I know y'all are probably very nice people who want a better world, but sometimes making the world a little better means acknowledging when we are wrong. I think that the pain suffered in Native communities from hearing a blog like this is very wrong. With people who don't even have to think about privilige because we just simply have it, it might be hard to imagine what this feels like having a white person who doesn't even know the whole story jump to a conclusion that the brown people are getting mad 'because they can.' This makes our entire community look bad. Especially because this was certainly not the case, their anger was very legitimate and it has been quite a process to even get acknowledgement, much less an apology from the offenders and the resolve to fix this awful situation. The organizers of the event have commited to a deep, ongoing reflection on privilege and solidarity in our family and community, and maybe you'd like to join in this process. Please don't give Burning Man a bad name in Native circles by using the largely-white community BM is comprised of to hide behind invalid, unfair statements and self-congratulations. I'm not trying to invoke shame or push people into a corner where they can't be honest, but I am going to call out when we are blinded by our own privilige to the impact we have on others. Love n Honesty, Hilly

hilly 2009-03-28T20:30:22Z Kelly http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#c47580a3-8b77-4374-a550-69e6f9c36e57 2009-03-28T20:05:38Z 2009-03-28T20:05:38Z

Very cool post , Dixie. BTW, regarding some of the posts on this thread, I can think of little more obnoxious than a bunch of whities telling members of groups that have been horribly oppressed by white people for centuries what they are or are not allowed to be offended by.

Kelly 2009-03-28T20:05:38Z dixie http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ce99aefd-546b-4d5f-8885-0e0b87999908 2009-03-28T19:35:05Z 2009-03-28T19:35:05Z

To the Tribe.net participants on this thread, As a person who has made a commitment to creatively heal intersections of oppression, I am alarmed and offended by how this event and most of the comments on this thread being conducted. Most of the email postings I find careless and pretty disrespectful. By the way, this thread HAS been and IS BEING circulated amongst folx throughout the Native American communities. I’m writing this message not to attack you, or pretend like I’m some superior person. I have nothing to gain from that. And this has nothing to do with you or your work personally. Having an appreciation for the creative spirit myself, with a particular fondness for music, dance, art, healing, and activism, I know how it feels when people tell you that your really cool activist or art expression idea is actually not-that-cool. It takes a pretty disciplined artist/activist/person to take that constructively. I’m putting this out there because I can’t complain about anything anyone does if I’m not willing to back it up with some action that seeks to change things. And you should have a chance to learn about what people are saying, and change the behavior and (more importantly) the system that supports it, if you are so inclined. I’m writing you in hopes of stimulating dialogue with you and in the creative communities that this thread and the ‘Go Native’ event reaches out to. My hopes are that it will be a catalyst to begin/continue dismantling the ingrained patterns of racism as well as respectfully recognizing and supporting native communities who are working for self-determination, who are on the front lines fighting for their cultural survival, for their sacred ancestral homelands, and for their and all of our lives essentially. I understand that one of the goals of the event was in support of the work of the Native American Church. More support for Native Freedom of Religion, for sovereignty and self determination is sorely needed in today’s world. In particular the carelessness and disrespect that I am referring to is the events clear and intentional reference to Native Americans. Advertised as across from an ancient Ohlone shellmound, with themed rooms (called "Water: Island Natives (Maori): Air: Cliff Natives (Anasazi) : Earth: Jungle Natives (Shipibo) : Fire: Desert Natives (Pueblo)") with discount if you show up in Native costume, ‘GO NATIVE’ promotion materials also uses the southwest buffalo skull with feathers and four directions graphic. Only Indigenous peoples collective stories can speak to the larger context of very old and complex struggles. Native communities such as Ohlone endured and continue to endure a genocidal assault. UC Berkeley’s decision last year to demolish the Memorial Oak Grove was also a decision to trample Native American rights! The Memorial Oak Grove housed Ohlone Indian burial remains, which was documented by UC Berkeley's own Anthropology Department. There is evidence of 2 shell mounds sites in that area, with 19 ancestral remains found within them. Additionally, UCB currently holds the largest human remains collection in the United States. The Hearst Museum houses human remains from approximately over 17,000 sacred remains and objects of which it is not in compliance with the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA). The desecration of The Memorial Oak Grove & burial area, as well as UCB's Hearst Museum to hold hostage their remains, directly undermines Native American cultural integrity, trampling their right to religious freedom. Indigenous resistance struggles such as the Ohlone, who is still not a federally recognized tribe, are still here on the frontlines resisting and standing for what truly matters. Ancestral remains, such as the ones that UCB found at the Memorial Oak Grove, have significant spiritual and cultural value to many tribes. Have the Ohlone been approached about how they might feel about an absinthe bar “At The Bordello!” across from their ancient burial ground? I’m all for sex-positivity and having a good time, however I was a little surprised that your group would be hosting something like this because on their website states that the goal is to support things which are innovative "beyond prior socio-economic models". But this event seems to mimic the same tired patterns of paternal colonial capitalism, where some privileged people turn a profit off the oppression and at the expensive of native and brown people. Another shellmound in the Bay Area (in Emeryville) had a dance hall saloon on it, with Euro-Americans here for the gold-rush, literally dancing on the ancestral graves. Now the Bay Street Mall sits on it and the Ohlone and Native peoples here are still struggling to get their burial grounds back! I understand that this is all native land, there are sacred burials and gathering sites all over, and it's our awareness and impact around them that matters. Whether anyone intends it or not, this 'playing Indian' by non-indian peoples, at this or ANY event, whether it’s clothing, themed rooms, or having a dream-catcher, ARE acts of spiritual appropriation and degradation. Indians are still alive and perfectly capable of being indian themselves. But it’s not like this all isn’t a usual occurrence. Every year controversy and dialogue erupts across the nation when a few white college frat boys dress in black face. Folx in the Native community have to witness this with every kid who dresses up like Pocahontas on Halloween, or every time they turn on the TV to watch the Redskins, Braves, or Indians play. It's disrespectful and racist to immitate and appropriate indigenous people and indigenous culture in the same fashion you would a spider man costume or a sesame street theme party. It is what allows non-Native peoples to feel entitlement and that they can rightfully own indigenous peoples identity and land. I believe that you aren’t meaning to be disrespectful, but in the end it is, because you are playing dress up. It DOES have incredibly painful IMPACT. And white privilege and, or gender, class privilege, sexual orientation, and more, has come at a cost: our AWARENESS and thus, Growth. These intersections of oppression/superiority leaves us blind to an impact we may have on each other, and the planet. Even if we are working with tribes, even if it’s around the clock solidarity work, those of us non-native, and especially white, male, hetero --no matter how open, beautiful, warm,still has privilege in this society. We have a lot of un-learning and learning to understand this history, We are all indigenous to somewhere. Some are more connected to our indigenous roots than others and some of us have more privilege than others in various ways. May we reclaim our indigenous lifeways. And carry it out in ways that respects our very rich multicultural global community, but doesn’t efface anyone as people with rights and a diversity of needs and feelings. So before this event Visionary Village/Evolutionary Temple to please take a few moments to again think about why they are throwing this event. What is your relationship to the land, to the people, and to these struggles? These questions go to you to, so before you post a comment to this thread. Read this letter completely, or better yet, read the one from the local tribes, it's the least we can do to give thanx to hose whose land we're on. I say this in a totally non-guilt, non shame-based way. This years Burning Man theme of of evolution.... What a beautiful opportunity! Sometimes we need to look at the way our actions may mimic the same tired patterns of paternal colonial capitalist oppression that we seek healing from. Privilege and oppression is ingrained into us. It’s in looking at it fiercely, compassionately that we can heal, and evolve! You’re in a position to be heard by a lot of people, and the image you’re putting out there takes advantage of the painful history of Native Americans in this country without paying any respect to the real life and everyday struggles of indigenous peoples. Visionary Village was asked that all Native American references in your promotion materials and at your party. Issue a public apology. Be clearer in your wording about the event and get the word out there! Own it and be accountable. Use this as an opportunity to engage in deeper discussions at the event and beyond. I speak from my own experience. It is within this context that I encourage discussions on the concepts of solidarity and accountability in order to better support and take a stand in these important struggles (for livlihood and self-determination). Furthermore, I can't underestimate the value and importance of working in coalition with indigenous peoples and all communities on the front lines. I encourage and challenge you to support indigenous struggles—at this event, in performance, discussion, literature, and future collaborations. It is important that those of us with various forms of privilege utilize it to shift resources to those fighting on the front lines! Because whatever our movements can do to further the indigenous cause, in its many struggles and forms, also furthers each of our own, and our children’s. Indigenous cultures live where most of the worlds last remaining worlds resources are. That is no accident. Often, it is indigenous peoples who embody a worldview which is vastly different from the dominant euro-centric worldview and as a result they are still living on or around areas of the Earth that still have intact ecosystems! As an ally, I say it's important to support indigenous issues and campaigns because they directly affect all our movements. The progress and success of these campaigns as defined by first nations needs active participation and support. The campaigns to protect sacred sites are being determined by indigenous peoples, on their own terms. Now the time is more critical than ever to protect sacred sites. Victory in reclaiming the earth will require a very broad movement that can help bridge cultures, issues, and nations. Indigenous peoples need allies from the outside--not leadership, but supporters and collaborators, especially from the environmental, women's, & anti-globalization movements, human rights advocates, and others. Indigenous resistance movements are growing more powerful and more organized. Native people are joining with each other regionally and globally as well as calling out to non-native groups whose values or missions resonate. People all over are being asked to take a stand with (not for) Native people who are protecting sacred sites, resisting genocide, forced relocation, climate change, and environmental racism. A few months ago I participated in helping organize a caravan of around 80 folks who were heading to the Indigenous Resistance Communities of Big Mountain, Black Mesa. A couple friends and I wrote our fellow caravan participants a letter and I think it is pertinent to this conversation. Here is a part of it: “We want to bring up some topics from an article titled “Rethinking Solidarity,” published in Color Lines, 2006. Although the article refers to solidarity movements between the Global North and South, i think some of the issues, although uncomfortable for some, are crucial to explore: activist tourism, resource sharing, and privilege. (Please think honestly about the meanings of these concepts, how they can be applied to your event and how they might shift from ongoing learning and commitment, from a sense of responsibility, and by locating yourself in the struggle. The article considers a possibility of horizontal exchange between communities and reframes solidarity as a mode of challenging the neoliberal/neocolonial paradigm and its repercussions.) And to keep with the metaphor of where we stand, we can also think of it as where we locate ourselves in this struggle. We acknowledge that participants are coming from a variety of locations. By location we mean the way our backgrounds, our experiences and relationships have been informed by race, class, gender, sexualities, religion, Nationalities, and urban or rural physical locations, and our histories of working within different movements and with each other. Our location frames our perspective and shapes what conversations we have and what comes out of those conversations. We want to be engaged in discussion around the historical and current manifestations of white supremacy and colonialism that have created repression around freedom of religion, of not being federally recognized, of forced relocation, and the continued assault and genocide of Native people here in the Bay Area and throughout occupied territories of Turtle Island. We also want to draw attention to how white supremacy, colonialism and interlocking systems of oppression can play out within our best intentions and want to center leadership from Native and people of color within and at the forefront of these crucial resistance struggles. We hope this is part of continuing to build a multi-racial movement that recognizes Native resistance at the center of climate, environmental, and racial justice. I feel the need to address white folks more explicitly. (In terms of promoting this party,) it feels important to have conversations about white people challenging white supremacy, without focusing only on white people’s experience of challenging white supremacy. It is important for white folks to consciously step back and create space for indigenous and people of color to be able talk about shared and different experiences, about strategies, and collaboration. Some questions: How do you plan to plan to connect this experience to your daily life and throughout your community? How does this benefit connect to the struggles you are involved with in your communities? Who are your communities? Furthermore what stories are being omitted and who is telling the narrative of these resistance movements? We’d like to conclude with the idea that“solidarity is to attempt the impossible wherever you might stand” (Rethinking Solidarity). We see this as resisting imperialism and striving for collective liberation from wherever we stand. We challenge ourselves to think of the possibilities for restructuring our roles in ways that truly support our root goals in the work that we do as supporters, collaborators and organizers. Our letter is a work in progress, without any definite answers. As the La Otra campaign says‘caminar preguntando, or we walk questioning’together.” ~Dixie Pauline, a volunteer with Black Mesa Indigenous Support (written with a friend)

dixie 2009-03-28T19:35:05Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ca415705-e576-437f-81f2-af3c32660b90 2009-03-28T18:43:00Z 2009-03-28T18:43:00Z

Dude, don't kiss anymore ass! You did nothing wrong in the first place. This whole thing is blown completely out of context and out of control. The public apologies shouldn't have to be made. Its not like the theme camp was screaming some Michael 'Kramer' Richard shit at the tribe. Sorry this is just ridiculous.<<< Kinda a lot of THIS.

Elaine~ 2009-03-28T18:43:00Z Kløne http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#ac6b1030-22c8-4af4-9635-42abf2d514fa 2009-03-28T04:29:39Z 2009-03-28T04:29:39Z

Dude, don't kiss anymore ass! You did nothing wrong in the first place. This whole thing is blown completely out of context and out of control. The public apologies shouldn't have to be made. Its not like the theme camp was screaming some Michael 'Kramer' Richard shit at the tribe. Sorry this is just ridiculous.

Kløne 2009-03-28T04:29:39Z gigi http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#22cc4057-1aaf-4c85-b8c9-aee2596254ee 2009-03-28T03:01:23Z 2009-03-28T03:01:23Z

And again, from The Visionary Village, our truly heart-felt compassion for the years of genocide, and all actions by us or promoters on our behalf who brought the unconsciousness and pain still lingering in race relations to the forefront.

gigi 2009-03-28T03:01:23Z BadAss http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#f7df5c86-caee-4352-a75d-99130c9c42be 2009-03-28T00:16:50Z 2009-03-28T00:16:50Z

They fucking lost the war!

BadAss 2009-03-28T00:16:50Z Zaius http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#39909d11-f32f-489b-9626-992c61a6ad5e 2009-03-28T00:04:33Z 2009-03-28T00:04:33Z

TLDR. Anyway, what does it matter? This makes me so mad, that my butt vomits molten stink! You culture appropreating hippy pukes make me pig biting mad!! God, my kitten like rage knows no bounds! I want to shove pacthulie deep in your funk place, and .... well, you get the idea It takes so little to get the dogs yapping.

Zaius 2009-03-28T00:04:33Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#933a347f-aa45-41b7-87a1-407e3f551b4b 2009-03-28T00:03:22Z 2009-03-28T00:03:22Z

"We can set the new precedent for race relations. Right now. Right this weekend. In a truly great way. " Borrowing from our current President, Yes we can. And we can continue it always. If nothing else, let the Evolution Temple of Visionary Village symbolize our love and compassion for our fellow man, our willingness to go the extra mile, and our united stand as burners to confront the problems of society with vigor as we solve them one by one. It will be a long road, but one that we must travel. And we will enrich our lives and the lives of others with every step.

Rhino 2009-03-28T00:03:22Z Peter http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#76433651-f701-416a-8b56-32a5263a0782 2009-03-27T23:36:06Z 2009-03-27T23:35:02Z

>

Peter 2009-03-27T23:35:02Z gigi http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#3beaf34d-7a21-4a10-bc79-feeea5a70ae4 2009-03-27T22:50:59Z 2009-03-27T22:50:59Z

A formal apology has been sent to the AIM and the American Indian leaders. Proceeds from GO NATIVE will be directed to a Native American charity. As requested, Visionary Village is removing all tribal affiliations from its promotional literature for this gathering. The Native American community is invited to join Visionary Village at the fundraising event and hopes this is the gateway to setting a new social norm, and a new understanding of racial relations. We have all learned so much from this experience and in the end, I think it will benefit us all. By the way, I am not affiliated with the production of this event--I have been promoting it to lists as a favor to the organizers. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Visionary Village <visionaryvillage@gmail.com> Date: Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:39 PM Subject: Re: An Open Letter to the Visionary Village To: Morning Star Gali <mstargali@gmail.com> On behalf of the Visionary Village, allow me to thank you for a very gracious letter from a community who has had suffered so many generations of oppression, and so many instances of categorical dismissal when encountering indignities up unto this modern day. Although a number of Villagers descend from Native Americans, and that the event is a call for people to stand fast and proud in their own native tradition while embracing the world around them as if it were their own, we all recognize the grave pain and turmoil Native Americans continue to endure through cultural appropriation, and are sad that some of us, and thereby, as an organization, all of us, have contributed to that. When this was first brought to our attention this week, some in the village who knew what the actual intent were and couldn't fathom the origin of the anger, retreated into defensiveness. We regret that corrective action was delayed. Actions thus far include: + Removing all tribal affiliations from any promotional material we had access to. + Posting clarifications and apologies on every public forum we knew this discussion to be taking place upon. + Signing this petition calling for changes to the event. + Removing all imagery of iconographic Native American symbols. + Pursuing the validation for claims of NAC chartership by the individuals who approached us, and whom we have worked with before, prior to any distribution of funds. + Declaring that in the event of a fraudulent NAC claim, all proceeds from our private gathering would go to a 501(c)3 of the Bay Area Native American community's choice, such as Save Our Tribal Youth, or Native American Health Care Advocacy. + Withdrawing the request that people arrive in native costume. Issuing a statement that every individual has a rich enough heritage of their own that they do not need to appropriate their neighbor's heritage. + A committment to work in concert with the Bay Area Native American community on all future events which may include anything remotely thematic, such as fundraisers for Tribal Youth or the campaign to reclaim Native American remains fro museums. + Holding a public forum from 5 to 7 pm in Mosswood Park, Oakland, Friday March 27th, for all interested and injured parties to address this and any future endeavor's to the community's satisfaction. + Inviting all interested and injured parties to join us in preparation of the private gathering tomorrow, so as to both ensure a conscious event of sufficient integrity transpires, and to join in the larger celebration of all cherishing each of our unique heritages. + Amending our website to reflect these changes. + Personally contacting each person who provides a phone number so as to apologize, and thank them for helping navigate us through this profound learning period. With all requests of the petition met, and more, we are truly eager for your presence tomorrow evening, and hope you are eager to see what we can provide. In closing, this is a sentimental piece written by a Vilager. It cannot be said to reflect the views of the Visionary Village as whole entity because it is only one person, but the themes and awareness it demonstrates have spoken to a number of us, and we thought it might provide contemplative material for where race relations in general can evolve from here. I must stress that although many have found it beautiful, this is entirely informal, and does not encapsulate the Visionary Village's position. If there is still turmoil within you, please honor that first, and feel free to leave the below piece unread. Thank you again for encouraging us to go forward with the improved event; we hope you will join us and set the new social norm. And again, from The Visionary Village, our truly heart-felt compassion for the years of genocide, and all actions by us or promoters on our behalf who brought the unconsciousness and pain still lingering in race relations to the forefront. May peace now be upon both our houses, The Visionary Village ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The native people of these lands have endured 500 years being oppressed and having their belongings stolen by someone who looks like me. That is not white guilt. That is not white shame. That is white heritage. So when an organization which has people who look like me attempts to generate funds in the name of native people of these lands: a demand for verification and right relationship is in order. In the absence of either, after 500 years of genocide, outrage is an appropriate response until demonstrated otherwise. Bbecause when all you have felt for so long is pain in a relationship it needs to be hyper-clear that there is more than a new hope; there is a new way. and that is the work the Visionary Village has set about to do. A way that enables each of us to embrace our native roots side by side. Acknowledging what has come before, and growing together into what comes next. Because if it is not together, it is nothing. We cried out to the spirit of the earth, asking the other children of this planet who are here to do this work together to come do this work together. and here you all came. is it any wonder that as we cried out in our ignorance that it sounded ignorant. the european tribes-people making this plea can name more native american tribes than they can native european tribes. European tribal culture has been eradicated . and they have been thrust into adoption by European-American culture. The latin roots of the word nativus and natus means, produced by birth. be born. The European-American culture is native to nowhere, except the earth in general. Yet this culture has subsisted entirely of travelling this planet as a foreign invader. If European-American tribal culture has been eradicated, and we must walk this planet without home then the very least we can do is make ourselve of service to the people who natively caregive that bioregion. We do not crave your resources. We do not crave your culture. We have enough questions of cultural identity to explore on our own and if the people who presented themselves to us as members of the Native American Church cannot be publically verified as such we would turn over the resources gathered in their name to verifiable natives such as yourselves who are with us on this quest. The only solution i have ever found to a lack of love Was more love. And each of us gathered here today has done so because we are creating the solution. Because we, and this consciousness are the solution. Spreading this, anchoring this as the reality of tomorrow's event is something which Native Americans can make happen in ways that make this what we've all been looking for. And ways we could never accomplish without you. Because if it is not done together, there is more to be done. Let's do it. Let us be the ones to co-create with you a new precedence at an event whose proceeds are also refueling the community if not to people who claimed to be legitimate, then to people who are legitimate. And next would you let us host a fundraiser for Tribal Youth? For Native American health care advocacy? Help us do what we are good at by giving the funds generated a place to land. It is the evolution of white privilege. We can set the new precedent for race relations. Right now. Right this weekend. In a truly great way. look around you. we already did. ~ Caapi ~

gigi 2009-03-27T22:50:59Z Kløne http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#55c8de8b-3377-4ac2-90bb-913b3af1ad28 2009-03-27T21:15:40Z 2009-03-27T21:15:40Z

Big deal. This really isn't racism. That's a big statement to make. The party isn't called fuck natives, its called go native. It may be against the wishes of the tribe. But I don't know either group, or what is going on behind closed doors.

Kløne 2009-03-27T21:15:40Z sulevay http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#6b72c2db-d7f3-4d44-bc90-5fcadd3deec3 2009-03-27T20:48:57Z 2009-03-27T20:48:57Z

you know, i can only say that i hijack hindu and buddhist symbols all the time.... because i LOVE them. Doesn't mean i'm appropriating anyone's religion or culture - i'm responding to them as SYMBOLS, as part of the _human_ visual language, to express in my own way and totally without racist or ill intent. ditto elaine again, on keeping the outrage on the truly outrageous. being territorial about symbols can be seen for what it is - a way to generate conflict over not-the-actual-problem.

sulevay 2009-03-27T20:48:57Z BadAss http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#09d37f71-b27f-461a-936b-17daa188ec85 2009-03-27T19:13:38Z 2009-03-27T19:13:38Z

Lighten up!

BadAss 2009-03-27T19:13:38Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7a373bc7-4d47-4e42-83f6-f5aee9bf9080 2009-03-27T19:10:28Z 2009-03-27T19:10:28Z

Unfortunately, I see certain groups of people using that manufactured outrage to their own detriment, as in furthering the reinforcement of the very stereotypes that they are trying to protest and change. I am not saying this is the case in this instance, and this is my own opinion. However I see it a lot in other sitchs. It really sounds like the organizers of the event just didn't think this whole idea through in their excitement to throw a event. Big deal, whatever racial or cultural group we may identify with, we are still humans who make mistakes. So, I do hope people pull back on the butthurt and maybe get over it. Other things to be truly outraged and angry about these days. This kind of shit only distracts.

Elaine~ 2009-03-27T19:10:28Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#9fd1b8cc-5e79-4ea0-8659-432478f74730 2009-03-27T19:03:33Z 2009-03-27T19:03:33Z

I'm really unsure on this one, and this is where the main tribe is really suposed to shine on. The Evolution temple of Visionary Village (VV) needed to have a fundraiser. They chose poorly in the symbols they picked in Advertising materials, and in the depiction of Native Americans by those symbols. Negative reaction by Native Americans singly and as a group led them to back off. After discussion, an apology was given by the organizers of VV. Whether or not that apology covered the areas of contention with Native American interests remains to be seen. No matter what, I think we all can agree on two things: 1) Discussions are being, and should be held to establish the nature of the situation. 2) Respect should be tendered by all parties. The 'Let's get outraged 'cause we can" attitude and vibes go nowhere with me as well. Elaine, you and I are in total agreement on this.

Rhino 2009-03-27T19:03:33Z sulevay http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b2bbe1f6-589b-4f6b-87cb-6d58a37d877e 2009-03-27T18:49:39Z 2009-03-27T18:49:39Z

me too, elaine. 'zactly.

sulevay 2009-03-27T18:49:39Z Elaine~ http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#7f5b62fa-bb3c-4546-b2ec-dec16debea3a 2009-03-27T18:34:39Z 2009-03-27T18:31:57Z

I dunno, I am with Bink on this one. However, I also see some "let's get outraged cause we can" vibes going on too. Which I have had quite enough of, thank you , in the last few years.

Elaine~ 2009-03-27T18:31:57Z sulevay http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#23f2b6cf-74a3-4a46-b93b-de5e267979d8 2009-03-27T17:20:23Z 2009-03-27T17:20:23Z

yay for interaction between the groups! it's all about that, in real time....

sulevay 2009-03-27T17:20:23Z Rhino http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#b5e3d7f6-4748-475d-b0e7-6cf07054b011 2009-03-27T13:55:48Z 2009-03-27T13:55:48Z

Bink, Insensitivity and stupidity tend to lead to racism. When someone is ignorant of the consequences that are generated by their actions, they are intolerant whether malice is intended or not. I saw in embers' posted thread where there was a 'backing away' from the issue until an apology was tendered. I hope to see a heightened degree of cultural sensitivity as a result of the interaction between the groups.

Rhino 2009-03-27T13:55:48Z Bink http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#9a62395e-273c-4079-92cd-625df84d68c5 2009-03-27T11:58:42Z 2009-03-27T11:58:42Z

Is it really racist or just insensitive and stupid? Racism involves intolerance or malice towards a specific race or races and usually the belief that one race is superior or inferior to others. It sounds like their heart was in the right place, they were just being naive and ignorant in the way they went about it.

Bink 2009-03-27T11:58:42Z embersandsparks http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#a564e781-d304-46da-b309-2f12f6ccf04e 2009-03-27T07:24:54Z 2009-03-27T07:24:54Z

Looks like plenty of thought provoking discussion has already been underway for a while on this subject here: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/25/18582184.php?show_comments=1#18583395

embersandsparks 2009-03-27T07:24:54Z root http://bm.tribe.net/thread/0d84c714-d95e-4999-adf3-f3c0fdcf47aa#e69cc781-3a1e-42dc-9231-9843ce40afee 2009-03-27T00:49:01Z 2009-03-27T00:49:01Z

i just read this and have to agree. Obscene Racist Event: Burning Man's 'Go Native' From Mark Anquoe, AIM West Brothers and Sisters, Yesterday I was informed about an obscene racist event that will be hosted by a Burning Man crew. On Saturday, March 28th, an organization calling itself "Visionary Village" will put on a dance party called "Go Native" where participants are being asked to come in "native costume". They advertise that the event will raise funds for "neurofeedback research" in Native American Church members. THIS IS A LIE. Real NAC members would never consent to being "studied" during our most sacred ceremonies! Furthermore, their "theme rooms", as scheduled, will make a mockery of Native cultures, including the Anasazi and "Pueblo" cultures (as if there was a single, generic "Pueblo" culture). In addition, they proudly advertise that their dance party will be held "in a bordello complex" built on top of an ancient Ohlone site! Adding desecration to this insult is outrageous! The event organizers have been contacted by *many* people in the community, and in addition to being completely insensitive to the Native people who have contacted them, they have also been unable to establish any connection between their "fundraising event" and *any* Native American Church group or individual. The text from their advertising appears below. Read all of these details for yourself. Part of the flyer is also attached as an image. The American Indian Movement WILL BE ORGANIZING AN ACTION AGAINST THIS EVENT. More details to follow. For the moment, please write to the organizers and tell them how you feel about their event. Please write to the DJs and performers and tell them that real life Indians are insulted and furious about this event. Also, please forward this information on to any Burning Man people you know. Its important that these people know that their own community does not support this kind of racism! Tell all the Burning Man people you know to NOT ATTEND THIS EVENT! It is especially important that NAC members, Pueblo people, and Ohlone people make their voices heard on this issue. Organizers: visionaryvillage@gmail.com Performers (partial list, more to come): peachy@janakaselekta.net www.myspace.com/janakaselekta http://www.myspace.com/mozaicmusic http://people.tribe.net/chlorophil http://www.myspace.com/venusinvelvet apache.cleo@gmail.com

root 2009-03-27T00:49:01Z